UFC 121 Lesnar vs Velasquez

[Woosta]

Btw why the f@ck are we discussing Overeem? If you don't want to compete against the best fighters in the world (ufc) then you don't count IMO. Let him and Fedor pad their records against all the ufc rejects. I'll be watching the fight for the best HW in the world tonight.

Ok sir. You have been successfully brainwashed by:

Ok. Let's take a deep thorough look at the BEST HW division and see how many top fighters they have faced.

BROCK:

Carwin TOP 10
Frank Mir TOP 10
Couture TOP 10
Herring
Min Soo Kim

CARWIN

Brock Lesnar TOP 10
Frank Mir TOP 10
Gabriel Gonzaga
Neil Wain
Christian Wellisch
Sherman Pendergarst
Rex Richards
Rick Slaton
Chris Guillen
Justice Smith
Jay McCown
Casey Jackson
Carlton Jones

CAIN VELASQUEZ

Big Nog TOP 10
Rothwell
Kongo
Denis Stojic
Jake O'Brien
Brad Morris
Jeremiah Constant
Jesse Fujarcyzk

FRANK MIR

Cro Cop
Shane Carwin
Cheick Kongo
Brock Lesnar
Big Nog
Brock Lesnar
Antonio Hardonk
Brandon Vera
Dan Christion
Marcio Cruz
Tim Sylvia
Wes Sims
Wes Sims
Tank Abbott
Ian Freeman
Pete Williams
Roberto Traven
Dan Quinn
Jerome Smith

Junior Dos Santos

Roy Nelson
Gonzaga
Yvel
Cro Cop
Struve
Werdum TOP 10
Geronimo
Joaquim
Jair Goncalves
Joaquim
Edson
Eduardo
Jailson

That's 10 so far. Let me just use 1 fighter from SF.

Fedor - Rogers, Arlovski, Sylvia, Mark Hunt, Coleman, Cro Cop, Big Nog, Heath Herring

That's 8. So, 5 of the most elite HW fighters combined from the UFC have fought 10 top 10 competitors, while Fedor himself has fought 8.

I wonder who has fought the most competition...

Now, stat-wise let's compare win/loss records:

Fedor: 32-2
Barnett: 26-5
Overeem: 33-11
Bigfoot: 14-2
Rogers: 10-2
Kharitonov: 16-4
Werdum: 14-4

COMBINED: 145-30

UFC ( new guard ):

Lesnar: 5-1
Cain: 8-0
JDS: 12-1
Carwin: 12-1
Frank Mir: 14-5
Gabriel Gonzaga: 11-5
Roy Nelson: 15-5

COMBINED: 77-18

If we compared the top 4 vs the top 2

Lesnar, Cain, JDS, Carwin are 37-3
Fedor and Josh Barnett have more wins than Lesnar/Cain/JDS/Carwin have fights. Fedor and Barnett are 58-7 alone.

If we had matchups:

Overeem vs Lesnar
Fedor vs Cain
JDS vs Kharitonov
Carwin vs Bigfoot
Werdum vs Gonzaga
Frank Mir vs Brett Rogers
Arlovski vs Roy Nelson

Overeem has better striking and submissions than Lesnar. Overeem is strong enough to hold his own against Lesnar's wrestling. Lesnar's takedowns have been stopped by Herring ( smaller by 40 lbs diff ) and Couture ( 40 lbs size diff ). Overeem is not some 220 lb scrawny HW like Herring or Couture. I say the odds are heavily on Overeem.

Fedor and Cain have arguably the best cardio at HW. Both are very good strikers. Fedor has the experience against top competition, Cain doesn't. I say Fedor takes this.

Junior Dos Santos vs Kharitonov is a very very good matchup. Both are very good boxers. Kharitonov is testing his striking skills in K-1 now. I'd say they are equal striking-wise. I think it's 50/50.

Carwin vs Bigfoot is a good matchup. Carwin has devastating striking but he gasses after 1 round. Bigfoot is no joke, only 2 losses out of 16 fights. Carwin has the power advantage but Bigfoot outstruck the boxer in Arlovski. Bigfoot has the cardio advantage and the submission/grappling advantage.

Werdum vs Gonzaga happened twice already, Werdum won both fights. Werdum has the better jiu jitsu.

Frank Mir vs Brett Rogers... Frank Mir definitely has the advantage in experience and submission grappling. Mir probably takes this, but never count a guy with Rogers power out. Frank Mir has lost to a light heavyweight in Brendan Vera before.

Arlovski vs Roy nelson has happened before and Arlovski did win, but they are both at very different stages of their careers. Roy Nelson is arguably higher ranked and would probably be the favorite. I think he did damn good against JDS. If Arlovski is really, really motivated and mentally there he takes this though.

Bottom line: The strikeforce HW division is no joke. They have the better experience and records. The UFC HW division top ranked are still green, and we won't really see how good they are until they fight each other a couple of times. Guys like Brock are 1 dimensional in wrestling, Carwin is 1 dimensional as a 1st round striker. If they really are the top 5 elite, they need to be well rounded in all areas.

Fedor is arguably the most well rounded HW ever. Alistair does have better striking than Fedor because of his newly gained K-1 experience and Alistair has ALSO won the ADCC grappling championships. We all know Alistair has had several losses before but that was as a LHW when he was cutting weight and not doing any strength training. He was also very, very young ( early 20s ).

For kicks, let's compare ages:

Brock - 33 ( lots of wear and tear from WWE stint )
Carwin - 35 ( i dont see him fighting for more than another 2-3 years )
JDS - 26
Cain - 28
Mir - 31 ( lots of wear and tear; motorcycle accident )

JDS and Cain are young. They'll be around for 4-5 years. Alistair Overeem is only 30 though, and is more well rounded than both, more experience.

Alistair I think defines the new breed because of his well rounded-ness, strength, speed. Experience helps.

 

[Woosta]

So you got one guy and now there are a bunch of great fighters outside the ufc? And like I said it's still tbd if Alvarez is the real deal or not. He's fought some tough guys but no one at the top level in his weight class such as Penn, Florian, Edgar, etc.. Until he makes the step up to the big leagues we'll never know.

Not everyone has the same (Zuffa-inspired ) rankings. Mine are:

1 Gilbert Melendez
2 Shinya Aoki
3 Frankie Edgar
4 BJ Penn
5 Eddie Alvarez
6 Kenny Florian
7 Tatsuya Kawajiri
8 Gray Maynard
9 JZ Cavalcante
10 Mizuto Hirota

4/10 of those are Zuffa fighters.

 

[marmasatt]

I just can't see Velasquez beating Brock. He's too big. Cain won't gas, but that doesn't matter if you are on your back in the 1st round getting sledge hammer fisted in the face. Joe Rogan is hilarious too btw. Every single fight that comes up: "In my opinion, this is the single biggest fight in the UFC to date."....

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not everyone has the same (Zuffa-inspired ) rankings. Mine are:

1 Gilbert Melendez
2 Shinya Aoki
3 Frankie Edgar
4 BJ Penn
5 Eddie Alvarez
6 Kenny Florian
7 Tatsuya Kawajiri
8 Gray Maynard
9 JZ Cavalcante
10 Mizuto Hirota

4/10 of those are Zuffa fighters.

I am not brainwashed by Zuffa. Lol. Just about every time someone outside of ufc comes into the ufc they just don't live up to the hype. It really seems it takes them a few fights before they get on the ufc level, if they ever do.

 

[bfdd]

Shinya Aoki probably wouldn't beat BJ, he might have a shot against Edgar and Melendez already beat him. I think Eddie Alvarez would take him in a rematch. OILFIELDTRASH, the guys that haven't really lived up to the hype were guys who were ranked incredibly high years ago. For instance I believe Akiyama has lived up to his hype. He's put on 3 amazing fights all of which were rather close even though he's 1-2 I wouldn't mind seeing him again. Lets not forget that there are plenty of people who were in the UFC when these "big names" outside of the UFC were destroying and they are no longer with the UFC, Sylvia and Arlovski are examples of this.

 

[leeland]

didn't read through the 5 pages of posts...is the sopcast for this yet posted?

 

[ctark]

www.atdhe.net


never look for another sports stream again

 

[Woosta]

I am not brainwashed by Zuffa. Lol. Just about every time someone outside of ufc comes into the ufc they just don't live up to the hype.

YOU ARE FORGETTING THAT THESE WERE SUPERSTARS IN 04-07. IT IS NEARLY 2011

Shogun is the LHW champ ( PRIDE )
Anderson Silva is the MW champ ( PRIDE )
Rampage became LHW champ ( PRIDE )

The above are relatively young.

Cro Cop began to fade after the 06 GP, his reflexes were shot.
Wanderlei just got old.

HOW ARE THE SUPERSTARS FROM THE UFC DOING?

Rich Franklin - dethroned by Anderson Silva ( PRIDE )
Randy Couture - dethroned by Brock
Chuck Liddell - no comment
BJ - dethroned by Edgar

The UFC superstars from that same time are not doing as well, except for GSP who is young. You are forgetting that time is a factor and people get old, they aren't in their prime anymore.

Wanderlei defended his title for 5 entire years when he was in his prime.

It really seems it takes them a few fights before they get on the ufc level, if they ever do.

Ah, the infamous UFC level.... yes... Brock lesnar is definitely "UFC level". He has godlike striking, godlike wrestling, godlike submissions... huh? You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Stop living in zuffa land.

WHERE IS YOUR COUNTER-ARGUMENT FOR MY COMPARISON OF "TOP COMPETITION"?

Nowhere, because you can't refute it. It's the truth, cold hard facts. Get those Dana White slurs out of your brain.

 

[Rudee]

Here's how the match will play out. Both fighters will dance around for a while in the first round, throwing jabs and such to get a feel for the opponents timing. Lesner will then attempt to shoot for a single leg and Cain will connect, but will end up going down due to Lesnars sheer power. Lesner will land some punches from left and right hands while Velasquez tries to get back up on his feet. First round ends and fighters go to their corners. Second round, much of the same, but this time Lesnar forces Cain to tap out.

 

[marmasatt]

I'm pretty happy with the rest of this card. Don't blink on the John Madsen vs. Gilber Ivel fight or the Schaub/Gonzaga one. Patrick Cote vs. Tom Lawlor isn't bad on paper.

Diego Sanchez vs. Paul Tiago? Good contrast in styles. Composed vs nutso....

And Sam Stout vs. Paul Taylor? What potential that one has as a slug fest.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

20 minutes! Someone update with the stream =)

 

[ctark]

20 minutes! Someone update with the stream =)

I posted a stream above, choose the 2nd link as its better quailty.

 

[marmasatt]

What the heck is the sopcast channel again pls?

 

[TecHNooB]

What the heck is the sopcast channel again pls?

a stream has been posted already. seems good to me.

 

[manimal]

crisp punching by schaub

 

[AznAnarchy99]

not working, either that or its loaded.

 

[manimal]

watching the British commercials has been better than the actual first fight...

 

[leeland]

http://www.firstrow.net/watch/33513/1/watch-ufc-121-:-lesnar-vs-velasquez.html

 

[manimal]

Diego has the best meanface in sports!


Its almost like their own doppelgangers or bizarro selves. In real like Thiago is the real life tough guy cop fighting orgnanised crime in Brazil's toughest city. Diego would play his like story in a made for TV film...

 

[duragezic]

LOL, Joe Rogan talking about Arianni in Playboy next month:

"Oh snap! You can see her naked?"

 

[KeithTalent]

Lol, that was awesome. Carried him across the ring!

KT

 

[DangerAardvark]

D'arce named by Mayhem? I've heard Marc Laimon take credit for naming that. A quick google search has D'arce himself crediting him too.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Diego Sanchez's prorities:
1) God
2) Nation
3) Cake

 

[TurtleCrusher]

LOL, Joe Rogan talking about Arianni in Playboy next month:

"Oh snap! You can see her naked?"

Is she cute? :hmm:

 

[KeithTalent]

Anyone know how long until the Lesnar fight (approximately of course)?

KT