Ufc 141: Brock lesnar vs alistair overeem

[classy]

That is VERY quick. The average muscle gain per year is 10lbs. And that is solid muscle, not counting fat. Also take into account that if you gain 10lbs your first year, it doesn't mean in 10 years you'll gain 100lbs. It doesn't work that way. There comes a point where your body just will not produce any more muscle.

Also take into consideration injuries. In lifting weights sometimes you suffer injuries even doing everything perfect. And those injuries set you back (pretty much what brought my weight lifting days to a halt). But he's also a fighter so he will suffer even more injuries which will set him back even further. So those 3 years, isn't like a solid 3 years of straight weight training. He has to overcome injuries and ALSO train for his fights.

So yeah, 3 years is pretty damn quick to put on 60 lbs of solid muscle. Even the announcer in K-1 said he looked bigger in his fight than he did 2 weeks prior. 2 weeks! You DO NOT get substantially bigger in 2 weeks time, naturally.

Again, for the people that haven't worked out a day in their life and don't understand how hard it is to put on even a little muscle, I understand his muscle gain may look "normal" to you, but it isn't. Not even close.

No disrespect, but I don't think you understand on how muscle and size can be gained or lost. A man who is 6'5 with a long frame like his can easily gain 60lbs over 3 years and remain lean and muscular. 20lbs for a man built like that in one year ain't the same for a guy 5'10 gaining 20lbs. Second I would imagine quite a few of these guys carb load before a fight, which can lead to a person looking bigger beacuse they are holding water weight. I don't watch the MMA at all, so I don't know this guy from a can of paint, but looking at his frame, 60lbs over 3 years is certainly not over the top.

 

[JackBurton]

No disrespect, but I don't think you understand on how muscle and size can be gained or lost. A man who is 6'5 with a long frame like his can easily gain 60lbs over 3 years and remain lean and muscular. 20lbs for a man built like that in one year ain't the same for a guy 5'10 gaining 20lbs. Second I would imagine quite a few of these guys carb load before a fight, which can lead to a person looking bigger beacuse they are holding water weight. I don't watch the MMA at all, so I don't know this guy from a can of paint, but looking at his frame, 60lbs over 3 years is certainly not over the top.

None taken. I understand very well how muscle can be gained (I've been doing it for years, and I've been around guys in several gyms that have done it too). I'm not so concerned about how it is lost though, but I understand that also. I've seen guys over the years at gyms, and I normally give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't automatically assume the guy is juicing. But there are those guys in the gym that are OBVIOUSLY juicing. And I didn't even have to see their test results. Same with any sports. Most of the athletes today ARE juicing, but they don't have that crazy monster size so they really don't stick out that much. But then you have the guys like Vitor Belfort, Ken Shamrock and others that are pretty easy to pick out. Overeem is in the same boat. I think the reason he's been able to get that big so quickly was because of steroids but I'm sure he has good genetics too.

On a 5'8-10" frame, you can see the results of weight training MUCH quicker than on someone with a 6'5" frame. It's just a much larger area to cover. And for someone to have that kind of muscle definition and mass on that large of a frame in that short of a time is pretty damn unbelievable without the use of drugs. AGAIN, even the K-1 commentators said Overeem was larger than he was 2 weeks prior. That comment alone should remove all doubt that he's on something.

 

[RPD]

Jack, it's pretty clear you know exactly that.

 

[classy]

None taken. I understand very well how muscle can be gained (I've been doing it for years, and I've been around guys in several gyms that have done it too). I'm not so concerned about how it is lost though, but I understand that also. I've seen guys over the years at gyms, and I normally give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't automatically assume the guy is juicing. But there are those guys in the gym that are OBVIOUSLY juicing. And I didn't even have to see their test results. Same with any sports. Most of the athletes today ARE juicing, but they don't have that crazy monster size so they really don't stick out that much. But then you have the guys like Vitor Belfort, Ken Shamrock and others that are pretty easy to pick out. Overeem is in the same boat. I think the reason he been able to get that big so quickly was steroids but I'm sure has good genetics too.

On a 5'8-10" frame, you can see the results of weight training MUCH quicker than on someone with a 6'5" frame. It's just a much larger area to cover. And for someone to have that kind of muscle definition and mass on that large of a frame in that short of a time is pretty damn unbelievable without the use of drugs. AGAIN, even the K-1 commentators said Overeem was larger than he was 2 weeks prior. That comment alone should remove all doubt that he's on something.

No offense so I'll just leave it at this. If he was using steroids, he wouldn't need 3 years to gain 60 lbs. Two, 60lbs in 3 years for man of that size and long frame over 3 years is not a stretch or a sign of steroids. As for the announcers, if I took every quip made by an announcer in professional sports as gospel, a whole lot people would be suspect in a whole lot of things. Again I don't know anything about the guy or much about the MMA, but I know lot and I mean a lot about working out, including roids, more than I should know. I am not saying he is clean, but saying that 60 lbs is a lot for a man such as him over 3 years and is a sign of roids is IMO error.

 

[classy]

I am going to add a little more here, I just read a little about the guy. If he was at 6'5 cutting down to fight at 205, his normal weight was probably around 220-230. So you are now talking about a guy who in reality has only added 35-40 lbs and now is closer to his normal fighting weight all the time, vs losing to make wieght. Among boxing this is very common for a lot of fighters to be normaly 20-25 lbs heavier than their fight weight. Which leads to why many move up in weight to avoid the loss of power, but are now bigger.

 

[JackBurton]

I am going to add a little more here, I just read a little about the guy. If he was at 6'5 cutting down to fight at 205, his normal weight was probably around 220-230. So you are now talking about a guy who in reality has only added 35-40 lbs and now is closer to his normal fighting weight all the time, vs losing to make wieght. Among boxing this is very common for a lot of fighters to be normaly 20-25 lbs heavier than their fight weight. Which leads to why many move up in weight to avoid the loss of power, but are now bigger.

Listen, we can go back and forth like this all day long and we'll never get anywhere. The ONLY time we'll find out the truth is when he is done fighting and writes a book stating he did in fact takes steroids like all the other fighters before him. Ken Shamrock did the same thing. He SWORE he never took steroids, and then after years went by and he stopped fighting he said, "yeah, I took steroids." He passed all his drug tests by the way too.

The fact is, Overeem is a monster and it is VERY difficult to look like that with his large frame by NOT taking steroids. You can believe what you will, but the proof is right in front of you.

 

[JackBurton]

Jack, it's pretty clear you know exactly that.

Why don't you just take a step back and let others speak for you.

 

[Hugh Jass]

So you shouldn't talk shit about any fighter nor should anyone because any fighter could beat any non-fighter.

I don't believe I'm the one on here talking shit about Lesnar or any other fighter.

 

[classy]

Listen, we can go back and forth like this all day long and we'll never get anywhere. The ONLY time we'll find out the truth is when he is done fighting and writes a book stating he did in fact takes steroids like all the other fighters before him. Ken Shamrock did the same thing. He SWORE he never took steroids, and then after years went by and he stopped fighting he said, "yeah, I took steroids." He passed all his drug tests by the way too.

The fact is, Overeem is a monster and it is VERY difficult to look like that with his large frame by NOT taking steroids. You can believe what you will, but the proof is right in front of you.

Jesus he is 6'5 260lbs, not 6'5 305. There are tons of athletes that are bigger and better looking than him and they don't use steroids. He looks a like a guy who trains a lot with weights and naturally just a big man. He ain't Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, or Lee Haney for goodness sakes. He would be consider a bigger linebacker in the NFL and the NFL has got many that are more dieseled than him. He is a tall muscular dude, nothing awe shocking.

 

[JackBurton]

Jesus he is 6'5 260lbs, not 6'5 305. There are tons of athletes that are bigger and better looking than him and they don't use steroids. He looks a like a guy who trains a lot with weights and naturally just a big man. He ain't Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, or Lee Haney for goodness sakes. He would be consider a bigger linebacker in the NFL and the NFL has got many that are more dieseled than him. He is a tall muscular dude, nothing awe shocking.

He weighs in at 260lbs, and we are talking a CUT 260lbs. And since he's so cut, that's most likely why he looks much bigger than 260lbs.:

He most likely walks around at 280lbs. Name me another fighter that looks like him that's NOT on roids.

 

[purbeast0]

He weighs in at 260lbs, and we are talking a CUT 260lbs. And since he's so cut, that's most likely why he looks much bigger than 260lbs.:

He most likely walks around at 280lbs. Name me another fighter that looks like him that's NOT on roids.

that picture right there does not look like he is on roids at all, he just looks like someone who works out and is in good shape. and since it's his JOB to do all that, i don't think it is surprising at all or anything even remotely that would require roids to get that way.

that timeline pic that someone posted, nothing at all about that looks unbelievable. looks totally doable w/out roids.

hell i gained over 20lbs one winter alone when i actually TRIED to gain weight. i was doing a regular lifting routine. i went from 185 to 205lbs in a period of about 3-4 months and had tremendous strength gains.

people at my gym actually thought i was roiding because of that as well, but i definitely was not nor would i ever. as others have said, it's mainly uninformed people who think that anybody who is big has automatically done roids, when they usually are just clueless.

not saying you are clueless or anything, but i don't think this guy screams steroids at all from what is discussed and shown in this thread. and i'm not into MMA either so i don't really know who he is prior to this thread.

 

[JackBurton]

that picture right there does not look like he is on roids at all, he just looks like someone who works out and is in good shape. and since it's his JOB to do all that, i don't think it is surprising at all or anything even remotely that would require roids to get that way.

that timeline pic that someone posted, nothing at all about that looks unbelievable. looks totally doable w/out roids.

hell i gained over 20lbs one winter alone when i actually TRIED to gain weight. i was doing a regular lifting routine. i went from 185 to 205lbs in a period of about 3-4 months and had tremendous strength gains.

people at my gym actually thought i was roiding because of that as well, but i definitely was not nor would i ever. as others have said, it's mainly uninformed people who think that anybody who is big has automatically done roids, when they usually are just clueless.

not saying you are clueless or anything, but i don't think this guy screams steroids at all from what is discussed and shown in this thread. and i'm not into MMA either so i don't really know who he is prior to this thread.

Just because you went from 185 to 205 pretty easily, doesn't mean going from 205 to 225 would be as easy. I went from 150 to 210 but at 210, trying to even gain 1 lb was a bitch. I mean I hit 400 lbs on bench press and it became EXTREMELY hard to gain even 10lbs on my bench after 400lbs. There is just a point where your body WILL NOT produce no matter how much food or working out you do. Yes it is his job, but there is a limit on what your body will do naturally.

And you're right, that is his job. And in a job where everyone is juicing, you better do it too or you won't be able to compete. It's really as simple as that.

Does this guy look like he's on steroids?

Well, we was. Now compare him to Overeem.

 

[JackBurton]

Listen guys, we can go back and forth with this all day and never come any closer to a definitive answer. So I'll leave saying this, believe what you want to believe.

 

[classy]

Everytime someone sees some muscular dude either big or ripped its gotta be steroids . I don't know if he has done roids or not. But as PB points out and as I have said, there is nothing about this dude, given the timeline that would make me believe he did this on roids. And he still is lean looking to be honest, he doesn't do a lot of back work looks like. Truth is, All Men are not created Equal and so many just can't accept that fact. Some of us are born naturally more muscular, bigger, faster, and stronger. Its just a fact of life and sometimes its not because of a pill or needle.

 

[railer]

I have no background in any of this whatsoever - but since this is the internet, I will throw in this, in regeards to Overeem.

Look at the guy. Look at everyone else in the UFC, then look at Overeem again.

Now, look at some of the guys in WWE (who look just like Overeem), and look at guys like Lesnar in his WWE days, and then again in his UFC days. Lesnar didn't look like the same guy, particularly as time went on in the UFC. And Lesnar was huge even in high school and early college. He wasn't some twerpy zit-faced nerd hiding behind his keyboard like Woosta. He was a naturally huge guy went to the WWE, used steroids and got even more ripped, just like everyone else in WWE. Overeem was normal looking in his early 20's, and now he looks like some cartoon muscle freak.

Those observations do not prove that Overeem is on roids.....but I would gladly bet my entire 401k on him being on roids....it's just painfully obvious when you step back and observe.

 

[classy]

When his little ass shows up looking like this

Then we can talk about how big he is and if roids played a part. But this MMA guy looks like a well trained 6'5 dude.

 

[purbeast0]

I have no background in any of this whatsoever - but since this is the internet, I will throw in this, in regeards to Overeem.

Look at the guy. Look at everyone else in the UFC, then look at Overeem again.

Now, look at some of the guys in WWE (who look just like Overeem), and look at guys like Lesnar in his WWE days, and then again in his UFC days. Lesnar didn't look like the same guy, particularly as time went on in the UFC. And Lesnar was huge even in high school and early college. He wasn't some twerpy zit-faced nerd hiding behind his keyboard like Woosta. He was a naturally huge guy went to the WWE, used steroids and got even more ripped, just like everyone else in WWE. Overeem was normal looking in his early 20's, and now he looks like some cartoon muscle freak.

Those observations do not prove that Overeem is on roids.....but I would gladly bet my entire 401k on him being on roids....it's just painfully obvious when you step back and observe.

look at Ryan Reynolds in Foolproof and then look at him in Blade Trinity. those movies were released 1 year apart but who knows the actual timeline between when they were filmed.

Ryan Reynolds looks like a totally different person in Blade Trinity. I am pretty sure that he did not do steroids and transormed his body big time.

as classy said, most people who are clueless about the subject automatically assume anyone big or ripped is doing roids.

as i said before, i gained 20lbs over 1 winter and gained massive strength. all in all, when i started lifting in college i was like 150lbs. that was back in 2000. when i graduated in 04 i was like 165lbs and after that is when i actually TRIED to gain weight, and had been doing shit wrong for years prior (was working out TOO much and not eating enough).

since then i've gotten up to just under 220 at my heaviest which was probably in like 2008 or 2009. right now i'm at 216lbs. oh and i'm 5'11 im not like 6'5 like this guy is or anything.

so that is literally 70lbs difference from when i was starting lifting, and from 04 to 08 i gained nearly 60lbs. not using any roids or anything. and this is while working 40/hrs a week sitting my ass behind a desk.

it is not unreasonable at ALL for these guys who's JOBS it is to train, working with the most elite trainers in the world most likely, can gain size legitimately.

im not saying they ARENT doing roids, but it's ignorant and stupid to make them guilty until proven innocent.

EDIT:

i also want to say that even people who DO work out don't know wtf they are doing a lot of the time. i'd say nearly 50% of the people i've seen at my gym for 5+ years, who come to the gym like 4-5 times a week, don't even look like they workout. like if you saw them on the street you would have no idea they go to the gym. yet they are there 4-5 times a week for over an hour each time.

 

[JackBurton]

When his little ass shows up looking like this

Then we can talk about how big he is and if roids played a part. But this MMA guy looks like a well trained 6'5 dude.

That guy was cop, so obviously he couldn't be on the juice. I think he just works out a lot. I mean that's all he does.

Oh yeah, he also passes all of his drug tests.

 

[RPD]

Why don't you just take a step back and let others speak for you.

Ok fine, time to take you to school.

He weighs in at 260lbs, and we are talking a CUT 260lbs. And since he's so cut, that's most likely why he looks much bigger than 260lbs.:

He most likely walks around at 280lbs. Name me another fighter that looks like him that's NOT on roids.

First of all he weighed in at 263lbs with timberland boots and jeans on. Get your fucking facts right or stop talking. Second, he looks huge because, he's NOT cutting any water weight. He walks around at whatever he weighs in at.

Example A -

How much you think he weighs? 155lbs. He must roid too right?

B)

170lbs. Shredded so he must do roids.

C)

Oh another 170lb'er. Must be another roider he's ripped!

Since we are talking about HW's:

The last one is Cheick Kongo, what do you think he weighs? It's only 240lbs.

I could keep going, but all you need to do is look at ANY fighter on weigh in day, but I'll leave it with one of the best (or worst) examples, Phil Davis, dude looks 100% gross cutting down to 205lbs -

I'll present the math to you one last time, I can only ask you read it, I can't make you understand it.

When fighters "cut" weight, they cut 10-12% total body weight. For 205lb'ers that means typically 20-30lbs, more in extreme cases. I didn't follow how hard his cut was at 205, but lets just say it was 25lbs. That means he typically walked around at 230lbs. Fighters aren't stupid either. They know they have to cut weight and won't allow their "walking around" weight to get that above normal, because the bigger the cut the less stamina you have, it's just harder on the body. So Overeem, knowing he had to cut 30ish pounds limited himself to a weigh so he could make a reasonable cut. When he decided to ditch the limit and goto HW, he grew into his massive 6'-5" frame and put on a lot of pounds. He did it over YEARS, and only added 30lbs. This isn't hard to do, why you think so is beyond me.

You seem to think everyone in MMA does roids, well they actually don't. They pass the tests and continue to fight. In the UFC if you do get caught cheating multiple times, you don't fight in that orginization anymore, ala Josh Barnett.

I'm sorry it was hard for YOU to put on muscle mass on a part time basis. But you aren't the measuring stick here.

Until fighters piss dirty I give them the benefit of the doubt, and Overeem hasn't gone from 205 to 260 overnight. Did I miss anything?

Also keep stealth editing your posts, you just can't believe others can gain muscle mass because you CAN'T, thus everyone roids. Got it.

 

[purbeast0]

who the FUCK is that smoking hot chick in the background holy shit?!?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Ok fine, time to take you to school.

Carwin was implicated in steroid use by a Federal investigation and Alves failed a drug test for diuretics so I wouldn't be surprised if he used steroids as well. Guillard tested positive for cocaine. You picked a real bunch of squeaky clean guys there. Yes, steroids are incredibly wide spread in MMA and Overeem is not alone in his use. MMA and boxing testing is fairly weak and everyone knows how to cycle on and off to beat the tests.

edit: To add several fighters and trainers over the years have come forward and said that 80-90% of professional fighters are using some form of PEDs. Often they are used to improve recovery to allow them to train harder not just for pure strength and size. You may disagree but it is not at all a radical view.

 

[TecHNooB]

RPD, do you even work out?

getting big and cut is one thing. getting 260 lb big and cut is another.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

who the FUCK is that smoking hot chick in the background holy shit?!?

The beautiful Brittany of course.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

who the FUCK is that smoking hot chick in the background holy shit?!?

Brittney Palmer

http://www.ufc.com/octagonGirl

 

[JackBurton]

Ok fine, time to take you to school.

LOL!

You seem to think everyone in MMA does roids, well they actually don't. They pass the tests and continue to fight. In the UFC if you do get caught cheating multiple times, you don't fight in that orginization anymore, ala Josh Barnett.

Pull your head out of your ass.

Until fighters piss dirty I give them the benefit of the doubt, and Overeem hasn't gone from 205 to 260 overnight. Did I miss anything?

Good, don't let the obvious slap you in the face.

Also keep stealth editing your posts, you just can't believe others can gain muscle mass because you CAN'T, thus everyone roids. Got it.

Stealth editing? You're a fucking moron. I edited for grammar or to add information, not to delete information. If you want, go back and compared what I edited to what others have quoted me. Now go back and put your head back in the hole.