Ufc 141: Brock lesnar vs alistair overeem

[JackBurton]

RPD, do you even work out?

getting big and cut is one thing. getting 260 lb big and cut is another.

He lifts weights by proxy.

 

[Apex]

I could keep going, but all you need to do is look at ANY fighter on weigh in day, but I'll leave it with one of the best (or worst) examples, Phil Davis, dude looks 100% gross cutting down to 205lbs -

I'm sorry, but you're way off here. Mr Wonderful looks at least 350-380% gross.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Brock hasn't looked the same since surgery. Even when he won the Carwin fight it was a fluke.

I really don't see anyone in the UFC beating Overeem right now. You can't take him down and I don't care how good your striking is it's not HW Champion K1 level striking. K1 striking is so far ahead of what the UFC has to offer it's not even funny except for a few guys like Silva, GSP.

Why is it that we are always so quick to anoint the latest impressive winner in the heavyweight division as the next big thing? We heard it after Brock won the belt. "He's so big and strong. We've never seen someone with his size and agility. I don't see anyone beating him right now."

Then after Brock lost to Cain. It was "Cain is so versatile. His striking is insane and his wrestling is just as good. I don't see anybody beating him right now."

Then after Cain lost to JDS. "JDS' striking is on another level. Nobody in the UFC can stand up with him and his BJJ is world class. I don't see anybody beating him right now.

Now it's Overeem after an impressive victory over Brock, a fighter most of us had written off as washed up and can't take a punch.

Overeem is a beast, no doubt, but he's got his weaknesses just like any other fighter. He didn't look all that unbeatable in his fight with Werdum (although he can't be blamed for the direction that fight took).

We're still talking about the same guy that got KTFO by Chuck Liddell aren't we? Now I realize that was light years ago and Overeem is much bigger, stronger and more honed fighter these days, but the heavy hitters in the heavyweight division all hit harder than Chuck did.

 

[Druidx]

Regarding Brock Lesnar, here is a great interview with Bas. It starts at 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MVOUu2vf-I

 

[RPD]

Carwin was implicated in steroid use by a Federal investigation and Alves failed a drug test for diuretics so I wouldn't be surprised if he used steroids as well. Guillard tested positive for cocaine. You picked a real bunch of squeaky clean guys there. Yes, steroids are incredibly wide spread in MMA and Overeem is not alone in his use. MMA and boxing testing is fairly weak and everyone knows how to cycle on and off to beat the tests.

edit: To add several fighters and trainers over the years have come forward and said that 80-90% of professional fighters are using some form of PEDs. Often they are used to improve recovery to allow them to train harder not just for pure strength and size. You may disagree but it is not at all a radical view.

Posting anecdotal claims that 80% of fighters cheat is baseless.

Last I checked, being investigated doesn't equal guilty. I didn't realize cocaine was a body building drug either.

Yep, I don't know anything about lifting. I gained 15lbs of muscle during a single summer junior to senior year in high school and did it several times in college. I could have played college football but it wasn't going to fit with my engineering degree schedule. No point in playing because my 40 time was too slow to play in the NFL. I've trained at AKA (American Kick Boxing Academy) and I personally know several MMA fighters.

I like how Jack ignores all the other math in my previous post

This pretty much sums you up:

 

[RPD]

Also clearly roids means one is automatically ripped. Lets look at one of the worst offenders in MMA.

Josh Barnett

Man, he clearly looks like a roider to me...

Notorious PED offenders are not welcomed in the UFC, Josh Barnett is a perfect example, he's fighting in the final for the Strike Force Grand Prix, even if he wins it's highly unlikely he'll be signed to the UFC due to pissing dirty several times. You also have Nate Marquardt who was cut the day before or day of his his last fight in the UFC because of PED issues. Fighters in the UFC are tested and if they aren't clean aren't fighting in that organization.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Posting anecdotal claims that 80% of fighters cheat is baseless.

Last I checked, being investigated doesn't equal guilty. I didn't realize cocaine was a body building drug either.

Yep, I don't know anything about lifting. I gained 15lbs of muscle during a single summer junior to senior year in high school and did it several times in college. I could have played college football but it wasn't going to fit with my engineering degree schedule. No point in playing because my 40 time was too slow to play in the NFL. I've trained at AKA (American Kick Boxing Academy) and I personally know several MMA fighters.

I like how Jack ignores all the other math in my previous post

This pretty much sums you up:

There's no need to personally attack me, asshole. I've spent plenty of time in the gym and was quite big for my height before grappling injuries and life got in the way so I have just as much credibility as you. The UFC is and the athletic commissions are willfully blind to the cheating so the evidence is inherently limited. I can name at least 6 or 7 guys on the current UFC and Strikeforce rosters who have tested positive in the past. The testing is pretty weak so you can make your own assumptions about what percent are actually on steroids. My personal opinion is that the 80-90% number put forward by fighters and trainers is a slight exaggeration and the real number is 50-70% overall with the percentages increasing as you go up in weight class.

 

[RPD]

Drizzle, the only part of my post directed to you, was the first two sentences.

 

[RPD]

Another great future example of Overeem is Jon Jones. When this kid ditches 205lbs he's going to bulk up to HW and going to be HUGE. I bet the internet will have this same argument about him and roids. Even though he has a brother that plays DE for the Ravens and weighs 313lbs. It can't be his genes, nope it has to be roids!!@

 

[Pantlegz]

RPD, do you even work out?

getting big and cut is one thing. getting 260 lb big and cut is another.

speak for yourself. I'm far from a professional athlete and I'm weighing in at ~240 with less than 15% bf and it doesn't take much effort for me to stay this size and I could add weight if I wanted and/or had more time to do so. I don't know either fighter personally but I'd be willing to bet that they could both maintain their weight without roids.

 

[JackBurton]

I like how Jack ignores all the other math in my previous post

Math, you had no "math" in your posts. I already responded to all your BS. And I've even given you proof that PED's are pretty rampant in MMA. Are you now going to say they caught 100% of the users through testing? Testing isn't 100% and the people they DID catch I'm sure were doing it long before they failed the drug test. They just didn't take PED's once and then fail the test.

Again, pretty much everyone knows PED's are rampant in sports including MMA. The only one in fantasy land is you and thinks everything is on the up and up. Barry Bonds went from 185 to 228 in like 10 years time. Is that doable? Yeah. Was he on steroids? Yes. You don't have to be as big as Ronnie Coleman to be on the juice.

And "cut" doesn't necessarily mean you are on steroids. I never said that. As I mentioned before, I'm sure Tank was on the juice. Why? Because I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt when they throw up a 600lb bench pretty easily. Sorry.

 

[JackBurton]

Another great future example of Overeem is Jon Jones. When this kid ditches 205lbs he's going to bulk up to HW and going to be HUGE. I bet the internet will have this same argument about him and roids. Even though he has a brother that plays DE for the Ravens and weighs 313lbs. It can't be his genes, nope it has to be roids!!@

You're right, no one uses steroids in football. They test the athletes there too. Great argument.

 

[RPD]

You're right, your logic, which lacks hard evidence someone is cheating is infallible.

 

[JackBurton]

You're right, your logic, which lacks hard evidence someone is cheating is infallible.

I can't make a blind person see. I'm good, but not that good.

 

[RPD]

I can't make a blind person see. I'm good, but not that good.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

speak for yourself. I'm far from a professional athlete and I'm weighing in at ~240 with less than 15% bf and it doesn't take much effort for me to stay this size and I could add weight if I wanted and/or had more time to do so. I don't know either fighter personally but I'd be willing to bet that they could both maintain their weight without roids.

You're 15% at 240lbs. I promise you getting to 12% would probably be 200% more work than it took you to get to 15%. 12% to 10% even worse. Overjuice is about 8-9% bf at 260lbs. That is a hell of an accomplishment and could probably be done by a professional dedicated natural bodybuilder. Now factor in 8 hours day MMA training and it gets Weird. So not only is the guy built like a truck but he's a top level mma guy. Hmm.. So he's doing the necessary mma training then pumping weights for four hours a day? Doesn't take a whole lot of brains to connect the dots here IMO.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Posting anecdotal claims that 80% of fighters cheat is baseless.

Last I checked, being investigated doesn't equal guilty. I didn't realize cocaine was a body building drug either.

Yep, I don't know anything about lifting. I gained 15lbs of muscle during a single summer junior to senior year in high school and did it several times in college. I could have played college football but it wasn't going to fit with my engineering degree schedule. No point in playing because my 40 time was too slow to play in the NFL. I've trained at AKA (American Kick Boxing Academy) and I personally know several MMA fighters.

I like how Jack ignores all the other math in my previous post

This pretty much sums you up:

Yeah I could have played nba ball except for the fact I'm 5'10" and a mediocre at best basketball player. But why let facts get in the way?

 

[RPD]

You guys are hilarious. From going to play college ball to NBA, nice bridge you built there. You guys like to make assumptions. I never said it was Division I.

Just keep the assumptions coming tho.

 

[JackBurton]

I know, it hurts when someone shatters fantasy land for you. Sorry.

And the picture makes no sense. I never said, if I can't do it, no one can. That's just an idea you created in your small little head. I put on 60 lbs+ of muscle so I obviously can build muscle. You just don't have infinite grown potential. That's not based on what I could do, but just normal human physiology.

Now go back and waste more time editing a new picture so you can "take me to school." LOL! What a fucking moron.

Edit: And talk about editing your posts. WTF happen to the picture you posted? And you were talking about ME editing my posts?

Edit 2: Ah, my bad. You still have your little picture up. For some reason it wasn't showing up.

 

[JackBurton]

Yeah I could have played nba ball except for the fact I'm 5'10" and a mediocre at best basketball player. But why let facts get in the way?

Ah, you were sooooo close too.

 

[RPD]

Wait, I live in a fantasy land?

When a person makes a claim, they need to back it up.

Your backing up consists nothing more of "Dude is huge!". Literally nothing more.

It's been clearly stated that putting on 30lbs over 3+ years is not difficult. He's yet to piss dirty. Then claims are made of his % body fat.. Really, just by looking you can tell? That gives me a good laugh.

So because he has yet to fail a test, but is huge he roids?

Oh I forgot, 80-95% of everyone in sports uses PED's and roids. Right, I forgot that indisputable fact.

 

[JackBurton]

Wait, I live in a fantasy land?

When a person makes a claim, they need to back it up.

Your backing up consists nothing more of "Dude is huge!". Literally nothing more.

It's been clearly stated that putting on 30lbs over 3+ years is not difficult. He's yet to piss dirty. Then claims are made of his % body fat.. Really, just by looking you can tell? That gives me a good laugh.

So because he has yet to fail a test, but is huge he roids?

Oh I forgot, 80-95% of everyone in sports uses PED's and roids. Right, I forgot that indisputable fact.

Listen, I'm not going go over this whole discussion again for you. If you want to know what's already been covered, go back and read my posts again.

But to answer your question, yes, you live in fantasy land.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The PED discussion is immaterial IMO. Because, be it horse meat or steroids, the guy has been able to get licensed to fight.

I think JDS v. Reem is a great fight. Overeem has a couple question marks - His gas tank and his chin. JDS has a couple too - his gas tank and ground game, if someone can hold him down that is.

Since both hit like trucks, I doubt it will come down to the biggest gas tank. And getting bombed with 4oz instead of 10 or 12oz, is different. Defensively, shots will slip through the smaller gloves that would have been caught on the bigger ones.

JDS has a good wrestling shot, because his striking gives him the entry and opening, due to his opponents having to respect it. So, he can get that penetration step, while changing levels, and hit the double. Could decide otherwise close rounds. But, Overeem is always one knee away from the end, or beginning of the end.

 

[waggy]

JDS vs Reem will be great. As dapunisher said there are some question marks.

Overeem has a bad bad tank and questionable chin. When facing a wrestler he is hesitant to do to much (wich is where brock made mistakes). JDS has a better gas tank and a good ground game. he showed he has a chin with Big country (hate him all you want but he can throw a hell of punch too).

I give JDS the edge but at this level all it takes is 1 punch or knee. But i don't see JDS folding like brock did

 

[JackBurton]

The PED discussion is immaterial IMO. Because, be it horse meat or steroids, the guy has been able to get licensed to fight.

I agree. I REALLY don't care if he's on the juice or not, it doesn't change my opinion that he is a force to be reckoned with. Overeem is not the new flavor of the week for the UFC. He's been doing this for a looong time and has an IMPRESSIVE record. IMO, he should be able to take and retain the heavyweight title for a long time.

People say Brock folded, but quite honestly, pretty much ALL his opponents do that when they get kneed by him. His knees are VICIOUS! And those are K-1 fighters.