UFC 182: Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier [ Jan 3 ]

[WaTaGuMp]

why did this ufc last so long?

the main event usually starts at midnight and the whole thing wraps up at 12:30am.
but not this one.

in the after fight interview, rogen said to jones time was running out for the ufc event.

did they add an extra match?

More of the fights went the full 3 rounds?

 

[shabby]

Rogan didn't even interview cerrone after the fight because of the time issue.

 

[JEDI]

Rogan didn't even interview cerrone after the fight because of the time issue.

yep, I was disappointed (and shocked) about that.
I think this is the 1st ufc ppv fight that ran out of time?

I would have loved to hear dc explain round 4.
he looked great at the end of round 3 and dismal at the beginning of round 4, like someone drugged him

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Jones is a real weirdo: "I was able to absorb my opponents skills by watching their previous fights". (Not an exact quote, but essentially what he said). He said a number of other oddball things too.

Sucks that Cormier gassed so hard. He was doing quite well in the first and especially the second round.

He is referring to monkey see, monkey do, and being something of an autodidact. Evan Tanner learned BJJ from watching Gracie vids. Anderson Silva KO'd a dude with a 6 to 12 elbow he got out of a Tony Jaa movie.

Bones, while being less than perfectly articulate about it, is referring to that. He watches his opponents fights and picks up what they do.

While Joe is a master purveyor of hyperbole, he is also accurate quite often. When he goes on about how advanced Jon's striking is for the length he has trained, he is spot on. The guy learns and incorporates techniques at an accelerated rate. Not just strikes either. He subs BJJ black belts, out strikes life long strikers, and out wrestles Olympic wrestlers in the context of MMA. He is special, and he is telling you why. He absorbs his opponents skills just by watching them.

I do not know what else you found odd, I had no problems following him. He went on about getting fat in between fights, and not training till it was time for the camp. He said he is going to be training continuously for the next fight and you will see it in his performance. I was sober, if you were as well, then meh.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

yes.
I was shocked that jones didn't use his reach advantage that much.
nor did he throw that many elbows like in previous matches

It was not that he did not use his reach, DC took it away through forward pressure. It is perhaps the best method for a fighter with a significant reach disadvantage to negate it. They said this was one of the 4 biggest reach disparities in the history of UFC fights.

The reason he limited his elbow use, was probably because he did not want to give up double unders. If DC ducked under one through proper anticipation, say, due to Jon spamming them, he might have hit more take downs. And DC gassed because constant forward motion and clinch fighting are exhausting, and Jon turned out to be much more in the clinch than he expected; his words.

And I and others pointed out on other forums that DC was not used to the speed, movement, and cardio of a guy like Bones. HWs, particularly the ones he fought, tend to be ponderous, and gas easy, compared to him. Which is why I thought Fedor was a terrible match up for him at HW. No advantages in speed, power, or MMA clinch and ground fighting. I thought Fedor would have KO'd him if they fought.

 

[Woosta]

Is it me or was both jones and dc's performance horrible? I can't imagine jones fighting that way against gustafsson again.

Jon Jones had a hard time because he was fighting a godamn Olympic wrestler who's a bull in the clinch and in general, a tough motherfucker who's fought heavyweights and has never lost before despite fighting larger sized men.

Daniel Cormier had a tough time because he was fighting the greatest fighter on planet earth in Jon Jones, who is deceptively strong using his upper body mass and height for leverage which is very advantageous not to mention his technique for wrestling/judo is perfect. And Jon Jones is the absolute best at in-the-moment thinking up solutions that'll win him the fight, tough chin, tough motherfucker.

This is why it wasn't just a one sided beatdown. This is what happens when you pin 2 ELITE top of the breed fighters against each other.

Here's to hoping Gustaffson/Rumble can end Jon Jones reign. The one thing Gus has is the same weight distribution in his body which Jones isn't used to, a great chin, and better boxing and lateral movement.

The first Gus fight woke the beast in Jon up though, he'll most likely win by destruction in fight 2 and if that happens, hope Cormier works on his lateral movement + gas tank for the rematch.

Jon Jones is the best fighter on this planet, as I've said before, but his personality and demeanor is fake as fuck and that's why he needs to lose.

Can you really support a guy who makes fun of Daniel Cormier's dead daughter as a human being?

 

[smackababy]

I think this fight, despite what Jones says, was much harder than he wanted. That is one of the reasons he is going to train year round. He doesn't want an upset because he was unprepared. DC gassed early, but you can't expect that to win you many fights.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think this fight, despite what Jones says, was much harder than he wanted. That is one of the reasons he is going to train year round. He doesn't want an upset because he was unprepared. DC gassed early, but you can't expect that to win you many fights.

Well he went 5 with Gus and Glover too, and they also had trouble keeping up with Jon. I think he may be more about getting back to finishing fights, and not becoming a decision machine like some UFC title holders (no names) seem to become. Where they go from finishing everyone to not being able to finish a sandwich. Though being better prepared is likely part of it as you observed.

Anik called him GOAT and he responded he had work to do before being called that. I think that is indicative of his mind set. Anik defended the statement siting the stats he based it on. But revised it to certainly one of the GOATs.

 

[Childs]

I think the fight should have been scored much closer, like 48-47 for Jones, but a comfortable 48-47 because of the 4th round. After watching the long post fight interview it looks like the body shots took their toll on DC, and he underestimated Jones ability to tire him out using body leverage. He is just an awkward person to fight, and you can't simulate his skill set and matching body type in training. DC said a couple of times in the post fight interview Jones felt bigger in the ring, and combined with the leverage it probably wore him out. Thats fascinating in a way, because he trains with Cain, but 3-4 rounds with Jones grinding on him wore him out. I wonder what Jones actual weight was during the fight.

I'd actually like to see Jones fight Phil Davis. Davis won't let Jones anywhere near him, and I think Davis has a style that might work...not beat up Jones, just out point him. Its almost too bad they have Gus fighting Rumble. I'd like to see both fight Jones too. Hopefully that happen.

If he beat Davis, Gus x 2 and Rumble, and maybe Cormier again, there would be no doubt he has the best resume in MMA History. He really already has it now, but that would make it unquestionable.

 

[Rudee]

DC talked far too much for a guy who clearly ran out of gas. Glad I didn't pay for that event, it was boring as hell.

 

[Woosta]

I think the fight should have been scored much closer, like 48-47 for Jones, but a comfortable 48-47 because of the 4th round. After watching the long post fight interview it looks like the body shots took their toll on DC, and he underestimated Jones ability to tire him out using body leverage. He is just an awkward person to fight, and you can't simulate his skill set and matching body type in training. DC said a couple of times in the post fight interview Jones felt bigger in the ring, and combined with the leverage it probably wore him out. Thats fascinating in a way, because he trains with Cain, but 3-4 rounds with Jones grinding on him wore him out. I wonder what Jones actual weight was during the fight.

I'd actually like to see Jones fight Phil Davis. Davis won't let Jones anywhere near him, and I think Davis has a style that might work...not beat up Jones, just out point him. Its almost too bad they have Gus fighting Rumble. I'd like to see both fight Jones too. Hopefully that happen.

If he beat Davis, Gus x 2 and Rumble, and maybe Cormier again, there would be no doubt he has the best resume in MMA History. He really already has it now, but that would make it unquestionable.

Phil Davis would be a waste of Jon Jones time. Did you see the Rumble fight?

Phil Davis striking is absolute trash. His body style makes it so awkward, he's slow in reflex and general.

The only matchups at LHW are Cormier matchup ( he'll have better cardio ), Gus rematch, and Rumble.

 

[smackababy]

Phil Davis would be a waste of Jon Jones time. Did you see the Rumble fight?

Phil Davis striking is absolute trash. His body style makes it so awkward, he's slow in reflex and general.

The only matchups at LHW are Cormier matchup ( he'll have better cardio ), Gus rematch, and Rumble.

There is really no LHW that can beat Jones imo. I mean, Gus has the best chance, and Jones already beat him once. I can't see anyone beating Jones and it not being a major upset. Maybe some HWs will cut and try and beat him? Idk.

 

[JEDI]

is it me or does Jones seem more mentally unstable since the Gus fight?

 

[Woosta]

Yes. Because Jon Jones wants people to like him, but you can't always like a fake fuck and he's just mad the Gus fight was so close; wants to beat him in the rematch and shut everybody up.

 

[Woosta]

To clarify, I like Jon Jones as a fighter, strictly in the cage. I think he's top 2-3 in MMA ever, and people pointing out GSP and Anderson Silva had longer careers, Bones' resume is more impressive than both of them in regards to challengers even at the mid point of his career. He beat 4-5 former LHW champions. GSP and Anderson never beat 4-5 former champs. Anderson at least tested himself at LHW, GSP was too scared.

In terms of all time UFC/WEC:

1a. Jon Jones
1b. Anderson Silva
3. GSP
4. Aldo

Cain has no legacy. He can't even survive a training camp. Aldo needs a couple more legit competitiors to rival GSP.

Jon Jones would be more respectable if he just shut his fucking mouth and never talked, but a bad attitude and fake personality sell ( see Mayweather ).

 

[Woosta]

There is really no LHW that can beat Jones imo. I mean, Gus has the best chance, and Jones already beat him once. I can't see anyone beating Jones and it not being a major upset. Maybe some HWs will cut and try and beat him? Idk.

Cormier's style could work if he used more lateral movement and had a bigger gas tank.
Rumble can KO any HW or LHW in the first round when he goes full superman, but Jones would just take him down and do what he wants, he's too full faceted for Rumble.
Gus surprised Jon the first time around and Jon I think wasn't really prepared for it, in the rematch I see Bones winning easily but Gus could surprise us again.

The problem is Jon Jones gets MUCH better and better after each fight, learns more techniques, and has 2 of the best coaches in the game ( Winklejohn, Greg Jackson ) that know exactly how to beat the opponent. Jon Jones has a crazy mind in terms of absorbing techniques and being able to understand his opponents games.

It's also stupid to say that Jon Jones will be undefeated forever because we saw what happened to Fedor, GSP, and Anderson Silva. Inevitably if you stay in the game long enough someone will get you on a bad day ( Weidman, Serra, Werdum ). The good thing is Jon Jones never sleeps on his opponents ( he trained hard for Gus but wasn't really as familiar with his game, and Gus is also a guy who rapidly learns after each fight )

 

[Childs]

Phil Davis would be a waste of Jon Jones time. Did you see the Rumble fight?

Phil Davis striking is absolute trash. His body style makes it so awkward, he's slow in reflex and general.

The only matchups at LHW are Cormier matchup ( he'll have better cardio ), Gus rematch, and Rumble.

If you remember Phil Davis spent that whole camp looking past Rumble as he was trying to talk his way into a title fight with Jones. I don't think anyone at the time thought Rumble was gonna look as good as he did. Rumble also had the benefit of training with Evans, the only other person to beat Davis. Someone at the Blackzillions probably has Davis figured out.

Davis's awkwardness is what makes him effective. His strikes don't seem to have any power, but they score. He gets a lot of takedowns from awkward angles. He has wins over credible opponents. Glover, Machida and Gus are solid wins for Davis. I don't think you can beat up Jones, or push him around. You might be able to frustrate him though and get him to make a mistake.

 

[Woosta]

You can't count the Gus win.. Gus had no grappling experience 2-3 or however many years ago it was. The Gus back then improved above and beyond ( thanks to Phil Davis, ironically, and is 200% more of a full fighter than he ever was )

The win against Machida was controversial.

Glover has no wrestling so that's no surprise.

Phil Davis isn't a fighter, he's an athlete. I hope he retires soon and becomes a wrestling coach. He's a stand up nice guy, Jon Jones is a fucking monster in the cage and mentally a psychopath. Phil Davis won't be the guy to beat JJ.

 

[Woosta]

Interesting to note that Chael Sonnen admitted Cormier would beat him in wrestling 10 out of 10 times - he wrestled him before but lost by a few points.

He noted Jon Jones completely obliterated him in the wrestling department, it wasn't even close ( when they fought ).

Sonnen kind of predicted that Jon Jones wrestling is >>>>>> Cormier's.

Also interesting to note is Weidman beat both Bader and Phil Davis in wrestling. Weidman is a BEAST.

 

[Childs]

You can't count the Gus win.. Gus had no grappling experience 2-3 or however many years ago it was. The Gus back then improved above and beyond ( thanks to Phil Davis, ironically, and is 200% more of a full fighter than he ever was )

The win against Machida was controversial.

Glover has no wrestling so that's no surprise.

Phil Davis isn't a fighter, he's an athlete. I hope he retires soon and becomes a wrestling coach. He's a stand up nice guy, Jon Jones is a fucking monster in the cage and mentally a psychopath. Phil Davis won't be the guy to beat JJ.

I count the Gus win just like any other. And they trained with each other since then, but that goes both ways. Davis has insight into Gus as well. And Davis helped prep Gus for Jones, so he was probably thinking about what he would do against Jones for some time. The downside to that is Jones kinda knows what to expect because of what Gus did. Wrestling wise, Davis could implement the wrestling gameplan better. Davis also has a submission game, so he could maybe do something if they get to the ground.

Yeah, the Machida fight was controversial, but he got the decision against Machida in Brazil. That counts in my book as a good win. I actually haven't watched that fight yet, but hopefully UFC will put in on Youtube before his fight with Bader.

Glover has excellent takedown defense. He stuffed Jones attempts for awhile until the very end.

I'm not saying Davis could beat Jones twice. He would lose in a rematch, but maybe in general people tend to take Davis lightly due to his personality or something. The only ones who didn't were the Blackzaillions, and they shut him down completely. Jones would probably try to out wrestle him, but in some ways Davis is better than Cormier with applying his wrestling in the cage.

Cormier seemed to want to beat up Jones. It was a strange fight in that way. I know thats what he was saying he wanted to do, but I didn't really think he was going to take that emotion into the fight. I think Davis would be more tactical in that regard. I know some of this is I'm talking up the matchup, but I think it would be interesting to see how they actually match up.

 

[Childs]

Also interesting to note is Weidman beat both Bader and Phil Davis in wrestling. Weidman is a BEAST.

And Davis won the rematch in 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYApbvt7l54

 

[Robert Munch]

Davis sucks waste of time and a boring fighter. I'd like to see Werdum, Cain, JDS get in on JBJ. Pretty sure Brock would GnP JBJ as well.

http://www.mmamania.com/2015/1/5/74...inner-jon-jones-stay-in-your-own-division-mma

Fabricio Werdum @JonnyBones good fight tonight against @dc_mma but better you stay there at your division. #vaicavalo @danawhite

 

[Woosta]

Davis sucks waste of time and a boring fighter. I'd like to see Werdum, Cain, JDS get in on JBJ. Pretty sure Brock would GnP JBJ as well.

http://www.mmamania.com/2015/1/5/74...inner-jon-jones-stay-in-your-own-division-mma

Fabricio Werdum @JonnyBones good fight tonight against @dc_mma but better you stay there at your division. #vaicavalo @danawhite

Pretty much.

I don't see how ANYONE would pay to watch Phil Davis "spar". He has 0 killer instinct. Even if he "wins" fights he just does it based on points. Not a real fighter, just an athlete.

 

[preslove]

Given that Gustafsson put jones in the hospital at the end of their fight, I kind of consider that fight a draw...

 

[preslove]

Because of the nature of mma I think MMa fans are the least informed/knowlegeable of all the major sports.

Hardly. Football fans are fucking idiots who have no idea how the game works. Your average football fan thinks that a super qb is all you need to win a championship, and doesn't even consider line play (the most important factor in football), quality of receivers, etc.

People boo in mma matches because they want action. And if the fight is in Vegas, tons of them are probably there just because it's the big fight that's going on while they're in town. It's just something to do besides gamble while they're in vegas.