Ultimate fighter vs. Navy Seal- who wins?

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sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
I love this idea of instant death hand to hand combat moves only the military knows.

How do they practice them?

I suggest you guys get a little dose of reality. There is no death touch, and moves you can not practice with aliveness are not going to be as useful as you think. I'd also venture that 99% of those moves are trivial in nature (eye gouging, etc) and require no training for anyone with half a brain. These movements are going to be most useful to anyone with a dominate position. That will be the guy with more experience in that type of combat. This is further proven by the adaption of MMA training methods by the military in both the army and marines.

As the purpose of the military (as far as I know) is not unarmed hand to hand combat, but rather squad tactics. I doubt they spend much time at all on it compared to a MMA fighter. A typical MMA fighter has trained for years exclusively in unarmed hand to hand fighting and has a strong background in takedowns, grappling, and striking with a even stronger base in one of those areas. Further more, the 'fight' that most military types have is a non issue here. We have to assume that both are engaged with the desire to kill each other. the aggressiveness and ego of a fighter is going to be on par with that of a soldier. At best the military opponent will be overwhelmed quickly and lose any kind of dominate position he may have attained prior to the fight starting. This is not a bad thing at all. If the military fighter was able to leverage his real training, the MMA fighter would get hit with a flash bang, taken out tactically by a strike team of expert military soldiers.

My friends came back from Iraq a short while ago. We spared and I was basically in control the entire time. Afterward, he told me that in the military they have a saying, "the winner of a fist fight is the guy who's buddy shows up with a gun". Training even elite groups to be experts in hand to hand is a waste of the military's time and money. Sure a elite group is going to be better then say a amateur guy like me, or a normal solder/person on the street, he will have had alive training in a high pressure environment and be physically above the norm in both stamina, pain tolerance, and strength. But for every hour he spends learning how to fight for war, a sport fighter is spending exclusively learning how to fight in unarmed hand to hand combat. These are drastically different things.

Next you are going to ask who would win in a street fight where you can only punch/clinch. A MMA fighter, or a pro boxer. I mean MMA fighters learn more 'dirty' boxing then boxers right? Of course they only spend part of their time boxing, but they still learn how to box.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Originally posted by: jonks
My typo, I read 30 months earlier in the thread. But my point stands. 30 months (2.5 yrs)of various training vs 10+? years dedicated solely to martial arts. And I don't buy the whole Navy Seal learned "moves" that no one else knows, especially MMA guys who generally study multiple disciplines for years from masters in each art, and who engage constantly in testing them out, honing them, specializing and perfecting them.

There's a difference between moves no one else knows and moves an MMA fighter wouldn't bother to master. Even back at UFC 1, small joint manipulation and I think (not positive) gouging were disallowed. It is fairly pointless for elite MMA fighters to train in outlawed techniques. Detrimental to them, possibly, if they are spending moderate amounts of time on it.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Lash444
-snip-
In 30 months they learn EVERYTHING about all mixed martial arts eh?
However, the military peeps get traing the MMA guys don't, specific moves designed only for immediate death of an opponet.

Okay, so if you saw these moves, just name ONE of them.

OK, my statement EVERYTHING is probably over-thre-top.

They were being trained by BJJ instructor and were doing every submission I've seen. Possible exception is what Gracie did from the bottom, never could see exactly what he was doing under there.

If you're asking me to name a BJJ move - arm bars, kumoras (sp?). If you're asking for their lethal non-MMA stuff, I don't know the names.

Fern
 

Lash444

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2002
1,708
63
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lash444
-snip-
In 30 months they learn EVERYTHING about all mixed martial arts eh?
However, the military peeps get traing the MMA guys don't, specific moves designed only for immediate death of an opponet.

Okay, so if you saw these moves, just name ONE of them.

OK, my statement EVERYTHING is probrbaly over-thre-top.

They were being trained by BJJ instructor and were doing every submission I've seen. Possible exception is that Gracie did from the bottom, never could see exactly what he was doing under there.

If you'rea sking me to name a BJJ move - arm bars, kumoras (sp?). If you're asking for their lethal non-MMA stuff, I don't know the names.

Fern

Okay, well I will admit defeat if any of you can say a move or describe a move that wouldn't be known by a MMA that would kill a man.

Surely someone here knows a Navy Seal that could enlighten us on these super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blows that everyone on this board keeps talking of.
 

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
1
81
Originally posted by: Lash444
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lash444
-snip-
In 30 months they learn EVERYTHING about all mixed martial arts eh?
However, the military peeps get traing the MMA guys don't, specific moves designed only for immediate death of an opponet.

Okay, so if you saw these moves, just name ONE of them.

OK, my statement EVERYTHING is probrbaly over-thre-top.

They were being trained by BJJ instructor and were doing every submission I've seen. Possible exception is that Gracie did from the bottom, never could see exactly what he was doing under there.

If you'rea sking me to name a BJJ move - arm bars, kumoras (sp?). If you're asking for their lethal non-MMA stuff, I don't know the names.

Fern

Okay, well I will admit defeat if any of you can say a move or describe a move that wouldn't be known by a MMA that would kill a man.

Surely someone here knows a Navy Seal that could enlighten us on these super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blows that everyone on this board keeps talking of.

Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.
 

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
1
81
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.

The proposed question stated that both were tops in their class.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: NL5
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: NL5
-snip-
No Seal has 2.5 years of training. Not one.

So you're disagreeing with the info in this LINK?

Fern

That link supports my argument.

From the 1st paragraph:

SEAL training is brutal. It takes over 30 months to train a Navy SEAL to the point at which he will be ready for deployment

Fern
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.

The proposed question stated that both were tops in their class.

BJ Penn is tops in his class
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.

The proposed question stated that both were tops in their class.

I voted MMA, but I doubt most MMA guys could get through Seal training. Almost no one does. That said, being able to withstand near hypothermia or staying awake for 60 hours or being resilient to torture is not going to be very relevant in a quick to the death street fight. So the Seal probably has better conditioning, and is probably mentally tougher, and maybe physically tougher, but it won't matter in this type of contest. The reason MMA matches sometimes last so long is because no one is trying to kill the other fighter. Endurance is overrated in a one on one street fight death match. It'll be over quick, one way or the other.

Like Zip said, the fight could go either way every time it's fought. I'm just going with the one I think will win more times out of ten, supposing we could ressurect the suckers or clone them or something.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: NL5
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: NL5
-snip-
No Seal has 2.5 years of training. Not one.

So you're disagreeing with the info in this LINK?

Fern

That link supports my argument.

From the 1st paragraph:

SEAL training is brutal. It takes over 30 months to train a Navy SEAL to the point at which he will be ready for deployment

Fern

Are you trying to say they spend 30 months on unarmed, one on one, hand to hand combat?

I highly doubt it. It simply is not a very important skill.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Lash444
-snip-
Okay, well I will admit defeat if any of you can say a move or describe a move that wouldn't be known by a MMA that would kill a man.

Surely someone here knows a Navy Seal that could enlighten us on these super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blows that everyone on this board keeps talking of.

Moves to break the neck, crush the windpipe etc is all that needs to be imagined.

I haven't noticed anyone speaking of a "super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blow" But I haven't read each and every post here.

BTW: I saw that (exploding heart death blow) on TV too. Some channel had a martial arts guy who had been working on that for a long time. They used a dummy hooked up to sensors etc to see if he could actually generate the force to do that. Turns out he could.

Fern
 

Lash444

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2002
1,708
63
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lash444
-snip-
Okay, well I will admit defeat if any of you can say a move or describe a move that wouldn't be known by a MMA that would kill a man.

Surely someone here knows a Navy Seal that could enlighten us on these super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blows that everyone on this board keeps talking of.

Moves to break the neck, crush the windpipe etc is all that needs to be imagined.

I haven't noticed anyone speaking of a "super top secret 5 step exploding heart death blow" But I haven't read each and every post here.

BTW: I saw that (exploding heart death blow) on TV too. Some channel had a martial arts guy who had been working on that for a long time. They used a dummy hooked up to sensors etc to see if he could actually generate the force to do that. Turns out he could.

Fern

A SEAL Im sure. And there are plenty of posts in this thread of people stating that there are killing moves SEALs are trained that MMA fighters aren't taught.
 

Oceandevi

Diamond Member
Jan 20, 2006
3,085
1
0
In a MMA match the ufc guy win.

In a fight to the death I think the seal would kill him easily.
 

Walzber813

Member
Apr 25, 2006
165
0
0
1v1 fight to the death, the ufc fighter would win without question. not only are they going to now submissions, they are going to know how to escape, and they are going to out skill a navy seal in 1v1 fighting w/o weapons in hands on fighting.
 

Walzber813

Member
Apr 25, 2006
165
0
0
1v1 fight to the death, the ufc fighter would win without question. not only are they going to now submissions, they are going to know how to escape, and they are going to out skill a navy seal in 1v1 fighting w/o weapons in hands on fighting.
 

Walzber813

Member
Apr 25, 2006
165
0
0
1v1 fight to the death, the ufc fighter would win without question. not only are they going to now submissions, they are going to know how to escape, and they are going to out skill a navy seal in 1v1 fighting w/o weapons in hands on fighting.
 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,287
12
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: NL5
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: NL5
-snip-
No Seal has 2.5 years of training. Not one.

So you're disagreeing with the info in this LINK?

Fern

That link supports my argument.

From the 1st paragraph:

SEAL training is brutal. It takes over 30 months to train a Navy SEAL to the point at which he will be ready for deployment

Fern

Serious? Did you read the article? Do you have even a vague notion of how the military and the SEALs operate?

Re-Read the entire article, then think about what you are trying to claim. You are proving my point. It is far more involved than 30 months. That is just for basic SEAL training.

 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
67
91
so 47% of you are complete morons.....

The seal spends about 1% or less of his time training in hand to hand fighting.

In this scenario, the seal would obviously lose, badly.

Toss in knives and firearms and of course it tips the other way.

I can't even believe I just responded to this. Nor can I believe that so many of you are dumb enough to think that the seal stands a 1:1000000000 chance.
 

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
1
81
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.

The proposed question stated that both were tops in their class.

BJ Penn is tops in his class

he said: "sometimes." if BJ Penn is tiring out prematurely, then he is not tops in his class at that part of "sometimes". BJ Penn at 100% is tops.

 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,460
775
126
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: ZippyDan
Pretty much all the "moves" that UFC fighters are not allowed to perform in the cage. Not necessarily instant death moves, but devastating none the less. Groin, eyes ("the groin of the head"), trachea, etc. Sure an MMA fighter could do these too in a no-rules contest, but they will not be second-nature to the trained side of them. While they are mostly second-nature to anyone in a life or death scenario, they will be definitely be second-nature to those who have trained to take lives.

Who wins? It's really a toss up. A knockout punch can be just as effective as a groin kick. A groin kick could very well miss as MMA fighters are trained to block any kick. If it goes to the ground, the MMA fighter probably wins. If its a long stand-up fight, the MMA fighter probably wins.

Conditioning, physically and mentally, is a non factor when comparing the two: both are in top shape. What it really comes down to is who has the superior killing instinct? Both have it, thats why its called instinct. The MMA figher has killing instinct backed by his advantage of slightly to largely superior fighting skills. The Seal's advantage is a TRAINED, HONED, and DEVELOPED killing instinct backed by solid combat skills.

I'd give the matchup 50/50 odds every time... you'd get a different winner with every iteration. Seal to win with the luck of a worthy competitor or quickly with "illegal" moves. MMA fighter wins otherwise.

I'm not so sure about conditioning. There are a lot of MMA fighters with weak conditioning. Sometimes BJ Penn is one of them. I don't know what SEALS go through but surely it is more rigorous than a lot of MMA fighters who gas after 15 minutes, since the conditions under which they are assumed to operate are quite grueling for longer durations.

BJ's condition tends to involve him eating Burritos and shit, he was in shape against Sherk but that's a rare thing. BJ in top form is crazy good. But physically even in top form very few MMA dudes match a Seals condition. Condition doesn't matter much in a no holds barred street fight. Between a skilled MMA dude and a Seal it wouldn't last long enough to matter. regardless which way it went.
 
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