Ultimate fighter vs. Navy Seal- who wins?

[coldmeat]

To all you people who say that the SEALs are trained in how to break a guy's neck or to gouge out his eyes or whatever, what happens when the MMA fighter grabs his arm and throws him to the ground? You act as if just knowing how to break the guy's neck is enough to win the fight. Not that I think that a SEAL couldn't win, I just think that more often than not the MMA fighter would win.

 

[Gamingphreek]

This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

2. People keep saying the MMA trains for a lifetime. They didn't just decide one day that at 5 years old they were going to start training guys. Lifetime training for most of those guys is probably about 10 years.

3. "SEALs would win with guns" - Do you think shooting a gun is limited to just practice point and click. You do know that the reflexes, twitch muscle fibers, and muscles are all honed in that training. Just because they are heavily trained in Combat Weaponry doesn't mean their other skills are not enhanced by it.

4. Honestly guys, MMA people don't just "skip" moves that could kill a person. There aren't "secret" moves that someone learns. There are moves that MMA people may not put into practice, but that doesn't mean they skip over them. That being said, there is something to be said about having knowledge of a move and practicing/using that move. Just because MMA people know the move and may have practiced it in training, doesn't mean they can use it effectively.

5. There is something to be said about endurance and stamina. Read the article again on SEAL training. The guys are practically drowning when they learn not to drown. They are suffering through extreme cold and wet conditions. They go with almost no sleep for 4 days straight. I have to believe that they could take a whole lot more physical torture than an MMA person.

Think about it-- who would you rather a hostile force interrogate using any means to extract the information?

6. Finally look at the MMA people. Yes, they are huge and strong-- typically someone of that muscle mass will not be particularly quick, nimble, or agile (Not saying all are bulked up or that some are not agile).

The SpecialOps person will win in a fight to the death guys. Attempting to get someone to tap out or otherwise, obviously the MMA people would have the upper hand as their goal would then be to trap a person.

-Kevin

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The SpecialOps person will win in a fight to the death guys. Attempting to get someone to tap out or otherwise, obviously the MMA people would have the upper hand as their goal would then be to trap a person.

And if the MMA guy gets the Seal in such a trapped position, or in a knock-out submission hold, they couldn't kill them after they knock them out? You seem to be proposing that a submission hold is a losing proposition in a deathmatch, when if continued to be applied it will snap bones or choke someone out.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Ultimate fighter. Sure, the SEAL trains for a lot of different situations, but the ultimate fighter's specialized craft is beating the living daylights out of people. What *fighting* training advantage will the SEAL have over the fighter in a street fight?

what he said.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: thegimp03
I'd rather see a fight between an MP and an MMA fighter. Military Police are already badasses, since in order for them to be able to arrest army bad boys, they have to be better trained than the majority of them. Navy Seals get more training as a jack of all trades, don't they?

thats pure bullshit. i was a MP (Air Force Security Police) and ill tell you if i had to go after a spec ops guy or ranger i would have backup consisting of a the biggest meanest patrol dog we had on base.

when i was in Panama we had some rangers who wanted to fight us after they just trashed the NCO club. we weren't going to play their game and kicked loose a German Shepard and a Belgian Malinois. those two dogs ended the rangers desire to fight right then and there. we did have to take a couple to the hospital for stitches and their commander had to stand on our Generals carpet and take a ass chewing that im sure his ears are ring from.

 

[sdifox]

Seal wins. There are rules in UFC, there are none for a Seal.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Seal wins. There are rules in UFC, there are none for a Seal.

Good thing it isn't a UFC cage bout then.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

2. People keep saying the MMA trains for a lifetime. They didn't just decide one day that at 5 years old they were going to start training guys. Lifetime training for most of those guys is probably about 10 years.

Most MMA fighters have a background in combat sports (boxing, judo, wrestling, etc) from the time they were children.

3. "SEALs would win with guns" - Do you think shooting a gun is limited to just practice point and click. You do know that the reflexes, twitch muscle fibers, and muscles are all honed in that training. Just because they are heavily trained in Combat Weaponry doesn't mean their other skills are not enhanced by it.

Most MMA fighters are not trained in armed tactics. Most soldiers are.

4. Honestly guys, MMA people don't just "skip" moves that could kill a person. There aren't "secret" moves that someone learns. There are moves that MMA people may not put into practice, but that doesn't mean they skip over them. That being said, there is something to be said about having knowledge of a move and practicing/using that move. Just because MMA people know the move and may have practiced it in training, doesn't mean they can use it effectively.

It is impossible to practice a killing blow. When in a stressful situation, you are going to fall back on your training. That training will be the stuff you practiced alive at full resistance, not the stuff you pretended to do on a complaint partner. Please watch Matt Thornton videos and read aliveness101.blogspot.com

5. There is something to be said about endurance and stamina. Read the article again on SEAL training. The guys are practically drowning when they learn not to drown. They are suffering through extreme cold and wet conditions. They go with almost no sleep for 4 days straight. I have to believe that they could take a whole lot more physical torture than an MMA person.

Think about it-- who would you rather a hostile force interrogate using any means to extract the information?

We are talking different kinds of stamina here. Regardless, I would bet both would be conditioned enough not to stop until one or the other was dead.

6. Finally look at the MMA people. Yes, they are huge and strong-- typically someone of that muscle mass will not be particularly quick, nimble, or agile (Not saying all are bulked up or that some are not agile).

MMA fighters are not at all huge and strong. This is not WWF wrestling. MMA fighters typically strive for a balance of size and weight. You don't want to be 200 pounds of muscle at 5' 8". This is why there are weight classes. There are optimal amounts of muscle for peak performance given the size of a human. Sport science has this down to well a science.

The SpecialOps person will win in a fight to the death guys. Attempting to get someone to tap out or otherwise, obviously the MMA people would have the upper hand as their goal would then be to trap a person.

-Kevin

I'm sorry, in a one on one hand to hand only situation, the advantage goes to someone who spends all of his training time on hand to hand combat. That is not a seal. It has been proven time and time again that 'the deadly' means jack shit in a fight if you do not train it with aliveness. Aliveness is impossible to train when you are talking about killing blows. Even for those ninja guys who can punch though bricks, it means nothing if you have not developed the means to break moving attacking bricks. Have you ever tried to break a person's arm/neck/leg? It is a LOT harder then it sounds. I have done things to people in competition that I was sure would cripple them for life. Yet they got up (mostly) fine after the tap. It is not like the seal is going to just grab the guys head and snap it, or reach out and rip out his throat like it's roadhouse. He is going to have to deal with a guy who's sole training is dominating another person in one on one unarmed combat. Seals simply have too much stuff to deal with for this to be a priority in their training.

How do I know this? Well I talk to a lot of guys who are military, some who are military instructors. They will all tell you they are training soldiers not fighters. The hand to hand training seals get is going to be a mix of the alive training MMA fighters do, and the crappy basically worthless 'deadly' training that the local hopkido/mcdojo does. One is useful the other worthless. The part that is useful is the part MMA fighters spend all their time on.

Unless you think a seal is going to be able to get inside on Anderson Silva and break his neck. Some of the most elite sport fighters in the world can't even lay a hand on him.

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This thread is nonsense...no fight can be decided until it's fought.

I like how people here think a SEAL is suddenly chuck norris because of a few weeks of training. SEALs get better with time but a pro-fighter does to and does it EVERYDAY usually.

Many pro-fighters would have no problem killing someone, some probably have already done so.

Yeh, I think some people tend to glamourize special forces soldiers and think that they are the ultimate dealers of death and bodily destruction. It's certainly a part of their training, but it's not like they train for hand to hand combat 40 hours a week with other guys that are training for the same thing.

Just because an MMA guy has to operate within rules doesn't mean he doesn't know how to turn them off when he's out of the ring.

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

Actually, Kimbo was slowly trained by Bas because he would have gotten his ass kicked the moment it went to the ground and pound. Hes a freak of nature when it comes to brute strength, but he was seriously lacking in stamina and had 0 knowledge of submissions and ground games. I still dont think hes fought anyone with true ground experience, but i dont really watch much MMA anyway.

How long do you think a Navy Seal could hold full size buckets of water to his side? How long do you think he could hold a full size man over his head? I only ask because if you can't tell me this, then how can you say how much energy is expended wrestling another full size man in a ring is going to take? Just because you can run 26 miles, swim 10, or jump 50 feet in the air, doesnt mean that you can wrestle someone for 3 minutes flat out without getting exhausted.

Probably longer than an MMA fighter of comparable size. Individuals in the military train for the ability to carry a wounded man for great lengths until safety is reached. SEALs don't leave downed men on the battlefield if at all possible, the only case being the area is too hot for recovery.

I train with that concept in mind, and I'm not even proper Army yet.
You continue to glamorize MMA fighters thinking that no other person can do what they can achieve. What I bolded is far from small feats, but they are most likely NOT something an MMA fighter has over a SEAL. Most likely, the SEAL can hold out longer than comparable fighters.
Endurance is something SEALs have a LOT of. To say they don't have endurance is a laughable statement, considering they train with worst possible scenarios. Put them in light gear, and their endurance will skyrocket.

Wrestlers train for sustained yet short bursts of energy. SEALs will train for mostly lengthy bouts of energy, but also train for short bursts. Endurance is mostly a mind-game with your own body, and SEALs above all train to break their body's idea of limits. When a SEAL is out of energy to the point he can't even run away, that means he has accepted a fate of death. They always maintain an exceptional endurance.

+

you know absolutely nothing about MMA

 

[OutHouse]

sourceninja

excellent post.

 

[sourceninja]

I (not a pro fighter) train for MMA to improve my cardio function while under physical stress.

For example, one of my recent workouts included:

running 1 half mile
a 55 pound kettle bell lift (21 reps)
a 95 pound thruster (21 reps)
21 pullups

Repeated 3 times racing for time with the rest of the group.

Another previous workout included
10 pulls
10 thrusters (50 pounds)
repeated for 20 minutes seeing who can get the most sets in that time frame.

The object here is to build intense cardio while pushing yourself strength wise. This is nothing I'd imagine compared to how say Rampage trains.

 

[NeoV]

30 months?

Wasn't Pat Tillman made a Ranger after a very short period of training, and that with no military or fighting background?

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: NeoV
30 months?

Wasn't Pat Tillman made a Ranger after a very short period of training, and that with no military or fighting background?

You can become a ranger simply by being in great shape, which he was. Rangers aren't elite special forces like Seals or Delta.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

Agreed. Deltas are the ultimate badasses, and could kill anyone (including UFC guys) in no time. How much use would they be on the type of missions they go on if they could be easily taken out by some guy who knows a few martial arts? With several years of Delta training and missions ON TOP of their initial several years of Spec Ops training and missions (Rangers, SEALs whatever) I'm sure they can more than hold their own.

A "no weapons" fight would be even more fictional than this one though, as I would be surprised if those guys ever went anywhere on or off duty without a knife and/or gun.

 

[evident]

this thread is still going?!

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

MMA. Sure, SEALs are good at killing, but they usually have the advantage of surprise and their training goes beyond hand-to-hand combat. MMA Fighters just train to kick the crap out of people. All day long.

 

[Arkaign]

Yep, Delta Force, and the black ops of their caliber, are trained 110% to kill. It's a totally different focus than MMA. Part of this is that MMA is almost totally focused these days upon grappling, with striking and multiple-opponent emphasis greatly devalued in comparison. I have a lot of respect for the MMA guys, they achieve great results in what they go after, winning cage matches against tough grappling opponents, usually exemplary physical conditioning, and so on. But their goal is to win matches. The OPs guy's goal is to absolutely execute someone, and if possible, do it in 2.0 seconds instead of 2.2 if possible, because that might be the margin between being able to go after a 2nd guy, or the 2nd guy sticking a knife in your ear.

 

[Arkitech]

I've said this again and again in this post, the psyschological factor makes a huge difference in a fight. There are tons of experiences all over the net where guys who have spent years in martial arts training have completely lost their nerve in an unexpected street fight or violent encounter.

MMA guys (even the elite ones) for the most part do not have pyschological training that a Seal does. I don't care how much training a guy has went through, if he gets into a fight to the death and if he's not completely focused he will forget parts of his training or make some other mistake due to being nervous and that will do him in. That's not to say every MMA fighter will turn coward in a deathmatch, but they are'nt trained for it the way a Seal does. It would probably be safe to say that 100% of Seals in active duty have the mental skills to put fear aside (or master that fear) in a life threatening situation in order not to jeopardize their unit or their task at hand. I highly doubt most MMA fighters train in that kind of manner, it would'nt make sense to since they most likely will not find themselves in life threatening situations the way a Seal would.

Its one thing to fight in a match or bar brawl, but when you know you're fighting a guy who's going to kill you if you slip up I guarantee nerves will make the most trained MMA guy fearful and less effective.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

Agreed. Deltas are the ultimate badasses, and could kill anyone (including UFC guys) in no time. How much use would they be on the type of missions they go on if they could be easily taken out by some guy who knows a few martial arts? With several years of Delta training and missions ON TOP of their initial several years of Spec Ops training and missions (Rangers, SEALs whatever) I'm sure they can more than hold their own.

A "no weapons" fight would be even more fictional than this one though, as I would be surprised if those guys ever went anywhere on or off duty without a knife and/or gun.

Well, actually even if a normal martial artist could beat their ass in a one on one no weapons fight, they would still be amazingly useful. I'll tell you why.

The military does not send in alone unarmed troops to fight wars!!!! They send in people highly trained to use their environment and weapons to engage a foe without being seen and take them out. I highly doubt delta force guys tap the guy on the shoulder and try to kill him with their bare hands. I'd think their most important skill is using squad based tactics to defeat their opponents. Again, there is no damn reason soldiers of any kind need expert hand to hand combat skills. They need good / passable skills to deal with the rare situation where they are alone and unarmed.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
I've said this again and again in this post, the psyschological factor makes a huge difference in a fight. There are tons of experiences all over the net where guys who have spent years in martial arts training have completely lost their nerve in an unexpected street fight or violent encounter.

MMA guys (even the elite ones) for the most part do not have pyschological training that a Seal does. I don't care how much training a guy has went through, if he gets into a fight to the death and if he's not completely focused he will forget parts of his training or make some other mistake due to being nervous and that will do him in. That's not to say every MMA fighter will turn coward in a deathmatch, but they are'nt trained for it the way a Seal does. It would probably be safe to say that 100% of Seals in active duty have the mental skills to put fear aside (or master that fear) in a life threatening situation in order not to jeopardize their unit or their task at hand. I highly doubt most MMA fighters train in that kind of manner, it would'nt make sense to since they most likely will not find themselves in life threatening situations the way a Seal would.

Its one thing to fight in a match or bar brawl, but when you know you're fighting a guy who's going to kill you if you slip up I guarantee nerves will make the most trained MMA guy fearful and less effective.

^^ win.

A singular psychic focus upon killing is utterly different than a sport focus. When an OPs is in a combat situation, there is no hesitation or moral compunction residing somewhere in his psyche or consciousness that will deter him in any way. If he needs to chew your nose off, or hack your face in half with a blunt object, it won't even be a decision that he makes, it will be a collection of instincts that will result in a stunningly quick death.

Different focus entirely. Almost invariably, cage matches would favor those that train for them, MMA guys. In the contest to simply murder someone at the earliest opportunity using any means necessary, you go with the professional killers every time.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

Agreed. Deltas are the ultimate badasses, and could kill anyone (including UFC guys) in no time. How much use would they be on the type of missions they go on if they could be easily taken out by some guy who knows a few martial arts? With several years of Delta training and missions ON TOP of their initial several years of Spec Ops training and missions (Rangers, SEALs whatever) I'm sure they can more than hold their own.

A "no weapons" fight would be even more fictional than this one though, as I would be surprised if those guys ever went anywhere on or off duty without a knife and/or gun.

Well, actually even if a normal martial artist could beat their ass in a one on one no weapons fight, they would still be amazingly useful. I'll tell you why.

The military does not send in alone unarmed troops to fight wars!!!! They send in people highly trained to use their environment and weapons to engage a foe without being seen and take them out. I highly doubt delta force guys tap the guy on the shoulder and try to kill him with their bare hands. I'd think their most important skill is using squad based tactics to defeat their opponents. Again, there is no damn reason soldiers of any kind need expert hand to hand combat skills. They need good / passable skills to deal with the rare situation where they are alone and unarmed.

So then this whole premise is unfairly biased toward the UFC guy. How about UFC vs Delta with knives or clubs? This would seem much more fair, and if the elite UFC guy was so awesome he could easily disarm the Delta and use one of the choke/death moves that he's spent decades perfecting!

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"

Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.

1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.

Agreed. Deltas are the ultimate badasses, and could kill anyone (including UFC guys) in no time. How much use would they be on the type of missions they go on if they could be easily taken out by some guy who knows a few martial arts? With several years of Delta training and missions ON TOP of their initial several years of Spec Ops training and missions (Rangers, SEALs whatever) I'm sure they can more than hold their own.

A "no weapons" fight would be even more fictional than this one though, as I would be surprised if those guys ever went anywhere on or off duty without a knife and/or gun.

Well, actually even if a normal martial artist could beat their ass in a one on one no weapons fight, they would still be amazingly useful. I'll tell you why.

The military does not send in alone unarmed troops to fight wars!!!! They send in people highly trained to use their environment and weapons to engage a foe without being seen and take them out. I highly doubt delta force guys tap the guy on the shoulder and try to kill him with their bare hands. I'd think their most important skill is using squad based tactics to defeat their opponents. Again, there is no damn reason soldiers of any kind need expert hand to hand combat skills. They need good / passable skills to deal with the rare situation where they are alone and unarmed.

So then this whole premise is unfairly biased toward the UFC guy. How about UFC vs Delta with knives or clubs? This would seem much more fair, and if the elite UFC guy was so awesome he could easily disarm the Delta and use one of the choke/death moves that he's spent decades perfecting!

Exactly my point. Most people here seem to thing elite soldier groups are like rambo. Just one man super killing machines that can be dropped into the jungle behind the lines with just a paper clip and a compass and will have the communists giving up their whole country by lunchtime.

They don't understand the purpose of military training and the purpose of combat sports. Simply put, the need of unarmed hand to hand, one on one, fighting is not very high for the military.

 

[torpid]

I think we all need to go outside and look at what an average street is like and see what sort of improvisational tactics could be employed. On my street, there are lots of bicycles and many have mirrors. If you could break that off, suddenly it's no longer unarmed combat yet still fits the situation the OP described since he said they could make use of their environs. I have a feeling breaking a glass window might also be useful.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
I've said this again and again in this post, the psyschological factor makes a huge difference in a fight. There are tons of experiences all over the net where guys who have spent years in martial arts training have completely lost their nerve in an unexpected street fight or violent encounter.

MMA guys (even the elite ones) for the most part do not have pyschological training that a Seal does. I don't care how much training a guy has went through, if he gets into a fight to the death and if he's not completely focused he will forget parts of his training or make some other mistake due to being nervous and that will do him in. That's not to say every MMA fighter will turn coward in a deathmatch, but they are'nt trained for it the way a Seal does. It would probably be safe to say that 100% of Seals in active duty have the mental skills to put fear aside (or master that fear) in a life threatening situation in order not to jeopardize their unit or their task at hand. I highly doubt most MMA fighters train in that kind of manner, it would'nt make sense to since they most likely will not find themselves in life threatening situations the way a Seal would.

Its one thing to fight in a match or bar brawl, but when you know you're fighting a guy who's going to kill you if you slip up I guarantee nerves will make the most trained MMA guy fearful and less effective.

For the 1000th time, the OP states "elite Seal vs elite MMA". The ranking champion MMA guys do not "forget" moves in the heat of battle out of fear. The lowest of the low MMA guys go into the ring knowing they are going to get the shit kicked out of them even if they win, and suffer bare knuckle shots to the face and body, and likely take weeks to recover from the beatdown. And I accept elite Seal have likely seen combat, but I doubt even an elite Seal member has almost any hand-to-hand combat experience in those combat missions which are almost all likely weapons hot scenarios. How often has a Seal team had to infiltrate someplace ninjastyle and conduct a series of one-on-one unarmed encounters without even using a knife? why the hell would they?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Exactly my point. Most people here seem to thing elite soldier groups are like rambo. Just one man super killing machines that can be dropped into the jungle behind the lines with just a paper clip and a compass and will have the communists giving up their whole country by lunchtime.

you mean like this guy?