Ultimate fighter vs. Navy Seal- who wins?

[edro]

MMA instinctively,
...but MMA guys don't fight to kill.

Seals fight to kill.

 

[Lash444]

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: Lash444
Are you honestly going to tell me that masters of martial arts who have been doing it their whole lives will not have been experienced with eye gouges, throat punches, etc? Come on. Id think anyone with a mid-level experience in any martial arts study knows you protect your balls, protect your eyes.

Also, a lot seem to think that the various martial arts involved in MMA don't have training that can easily kill, and that only SEALs would receive martial arts training of that sort and are thus the only ones "trained to kill." The training in the wide range of martial arts that MMA fighter could potentially have would provide much more deadly offense and defense than what a SEAL would be restricted to, let alone the amount of time and focus put in to that training a career focused MMA practitioner would have opposed to a SEAL who's training in hand-to-hand combat is a fraction of their overall military training and expertise.

SEALs are not killing gods and MMA practioneers aren't necessarily martial arts gods. No knowledge of the MMA fighter's actual MMA training makes it impossible to even really guess. It could be anything to any degree; some sort of background would be required to make even a guess. Either way, it'd be a hard fight for both.

I think the problem lies in the fact that people see the fights on television and think the guys are just trained to fight in a specific way (like boxing) in which career ending or even life ending moves aren't used. That because they dont see the throat punches/groin kicks/dirty fighting, that they arent trained for it and wouldn't use it.

Then you watch videos of Bas Rutten showing you how to snap kneecaps when a guy crosses his legs, or breaking someones arm in two using a table in a restaurant.

 

[Lash444]

Originally posted by: edro
MMA instinctively,
...but MMA guys don't fight to kill.

Seals fight to kill.

As stated in the OP "Ultimate fighter meets Navy Seal walking down the street, and instantaneously each realizes the other is their mortal enemy and it's either kill or be killed."

You honestly don't think a guy whos willing to fight as a profession isn't prepared to kill if he has to? Id imagine if you so much as took out a knife in front of half the guys in the MMA that you would be lucky to walk away with your life.

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: lyssword
OK lets clear something up. Elite MMA fighter faced BEST IN TEH FUCKING world. PROVEN FUCKING EXPERIENCE performs under pressure consistently. Not theory. Proven 30 wins against BEST and consistently beating them. Fuck crav maga, real hands on experience always wins. Show me an mma match where "crav maga" guy can do shit, not to mention it's poor man's juijitsu anyways.. A boxer with 1 year experience will rape "Kata Karate" or kung fu or any other non-contact sport. You just don't learn how to fight by doing theoretical training.

I don't claim I can beat either mma or seal guy. But I place my bets on MMA elite and I've given my reasons.

you are correct a Krav Maga fighter would loose in UFC badly, that's because 95% of what they're taught isn't allowed in the octagon. UFC & the Athletic Commission frown upon what they do. Ripping off a dudes nutts, eye gouging and small joint manipulation to name a few things are against the unified MMA rules in the US. Even in something like Rio Heroes which is much more brutal when it comes to what's allowed, pure Krav Maga wouldn't be allowed. Nobody in UFC trains to inflict instant near fatal damage, as they train to fight in a cage where there are rules. Krav Maga dudes don't train to fight for fun, it's life or death.

As for you saying people who train in a disipline that's mostly non-contact wouldn't do well in MMA. Look at Machida, he's almost all Karate and still manages to whoop ass.

BJJ isn't the end all be all of fight, it works extremly well in MMA because of submission, but in an all out street brawl going for an arm bar won't mean much when the dude your fighting is trying to snap your fingers off.

In a Street Fight, 8/10 I'd put my money on a Krav maga dude, the other 2 times a BJJ practitioner would be able to sink in a RNC put the guy to sleep.

I would like to know how Krav maga dude would rip nuts off lying on the floor knocked out and all. Try going for nuts.. rofl easy KO..especially if mma dude knows that opponent doesn't know shit bout boxing or kickboxing..

You obviously don't know much about Krav Maga. It's a lot more than the groin kick. Yes, that's the default move/objective (or part of the default move/objective) in most cases, but we're also trained to block/punch, as well as how to get out of many common holds. (ie: Headlocks on the ground). We're trained to kick various vulnerable points on the leg/rib cage (ie: There's a nerve that runs down the side of the leg. You hit it hard enough, and your opponent's leg goes to sleep), and how to burst in and snap the collarbone. We're also trained to defend lying on our backs if we're knocked down, and how to recover very quickly.

That's just what I know, and I'm a lowly student. Advanced levels train in everything from advanced groundwork to double kicks. Remember, Krav draws from several different martial arts. It's effectively an MMA in and of itself.

If you think Muy Thai would help, you'd be partially right. High kicks are virtually useless in a street fight. They open up the groin for one.

Obviously even an Master level Krav Maga practitioner probably has less training than an MMA fighter in straight boxing/kickboxing, but IMO more than enough enough to hold off the MMA fighter long enough for an opening, or make the opening.

Edit: Above example is assuming the MMA fighter isn't trained in Krav. Or the Krav in another MA (which is fairly common)

 

[TallBill]

This thread is fucking retarded. You guys are quite obviously clueless about both the military and mixed martial arts.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: edro
MMA instinctively,
...but MMA guys don't fight to kill.

Seals fight to kill.

As stated in the OP "Ultimate fighter meets Navy Seal walking down the street, and instantaneously each realizes the other is their mortal enemy and it's either kill or be killed."

You honestly don't think a guy whos willing to fight as a profession isn't prepared to kill if he has to? Id imagine if you so much as took out a knife in front of half the guys in the MMA that you would be lucky to walk away with your life.

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

lulz.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: Lash444

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

if you're in a fight with a SEAL to the death, you better believe he's going to kill you if he has the opportunity.

Originally posted by: irishScott

Obviously even an Master level Krav Maga practitioner has far less training an MMA fighter in straight boxing/kickboxing, but IMO more than enough enough to hold off the MMA fighter long enough for an opening, or make the opening.

Now we're in to different types of MMA fighters versus each other. Krav maga can be trained all across the US and obviously in Israel, so it's one of the countless martial arts an MMA fighter can potentially be trained in.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: TallBill
This thread is fucking retarded. You guys are quite obviously clueless about both the military and mixed martial arts.

I like the guys who spout off about how much SEALs train hand to hand or how often they fight hand to hand in the field. As if anyone here would have a friggin clue.

The OP stated that any weapon normally found on the street could be used. If a SEAL finds any kind of club or sharp object, it's game over. And even if they don't they could hold their own.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

if you're in a fight with a SEAL to the death, you better believe he's going to kill you if he has the opportunity.

Well, it is a fight to the death...

 

[Q]

I'd like to say SEAL but I think MMA would win

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

if you're in a fight with a SEAL to the death, you better believe he's going to kill you if he has the opportunity.

Originally posted by: irishScott

Obviously even an Master level Krav Maga practitioner has far less training an MMA fighter in straight boxing/kickboxing, but IMO more than enough enough to hold off the MMA fighter long enough for an opening, or make the opening.

Now we're in to different types of MMA fighters versus each other. Krav maga can be trained all across the US and obviously in Israel, so it's one of the countless martial arts an MMA fighter can potentially be trained in.

True. I'm assuming the MMA fighter isn't trained in Krav. I was just trying to enlighten lyssword, as it seems he thinks Krav is nothing more than the groin kick.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

if you're in a fight with a SEAL to the death, you better believe he's going to kill you if he has the opportunity.

Well, it is a fight to the death...

Well, yeah. that was my point.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Id rather pull a knife on a SEAL. At least I think he has enough brains to stop smashing my head in.

if you're in a fight with a SEAL to the death, you better believe he's going to kill you if he has the opportunity.

Originally posted by: irishScott

Obviously even an Master level Krav Maga practitioner has far less training an MMA fighter in straight boxing/kickboxing, but IMO more than enough enough to hold off the MMA fighter long enough for an opening, or make the opening.

Now we're in to different types of MMA fighters versus each other. Krav maga can be trained all across the US and obviously in Israel, so it's one of the countless martial arts an MMA fighter can potentially be trained in.

True. I'm assuming the MMA fighter isn't trained in Krav. I was just trying to enlighten lyssword, as it seems he thinks Krav is nothing more than the groin kick.

There's a lot of enlightenment that should probably be done in this thread. Someone underestimating no quarter combat like krav maga is pretty ridiculous.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: dNor

There's a lot of enlightenment that should probably be done in this thread. Someone underestimating no quarter combat like krav maga is pretty ridiculous.

Hrm, this thread is 100% idiot.

 

[wwswimming]

i don't know if he would win, but Lateef Crowder would make it entertaining.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CsbVyGtQo4g

he's a capoeira guy but i have the feeling he has some street fighting
experience too.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: GiggleGirl

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: Molondo
This is worse than MAC vs PC

I think its closer to saying which one would be better at running OSX.

I think it's more like asking who's the better athelete - a world champion decathalon winner or winner of an individual event. As a whole, the decathalete is incredibly well rounded and a superb athlete. But he's going to lose to a world champion of any individual event.

trueness. well said

Then why wasn't it obvious to you from the start, or to everybody else for that matter? This isn't complicated, and it shouldn't take clever analogies to make the point.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: lyssword
OK lets clear something up. Elite MMA fighter faced BEST IN TEH FUCKING world. PROVEN FUCKING EXPERIENCE performs under pressure consistently. Not theory. Proven 30 wins against BEST and consistently beating them. Fuck crav maga, real hands on experience always wins. Show me an mma match where "crav maga" guy can do shit, not to mention it's poor man's juijitsu anyways.. A boxer with 1 year experience will rape "Kata Karate" or kung fu or any other non-contact sport. You just don't learn how to fight by doing theoretical training.

I don't claim I can beat either mma or seal guy. But I place my bets on MMA elite and I've given my reasons.

you are correct a Krav Maga fighter would loose in UFC badly, that's because 95% of what they're taught isn't allowed in the octagon. UFC & the Athletic Commission frown upon what they do. Ripping off a dudes nutts, eye gouging and small joint manipulation to name a few things are against the unified MMA rules in the US. Even in something like Rio Heroes which is much more brutal when it comes to what's allowed, pure Krav Maga wouldn't be allowed. Nobody in UFC trains to inflict instant near fatal damage, as they train to fight in a cage where there are rules. Krav Maga dudes don't train to fight for fun, it's life or death.

As for you saying people who train in a disipline that's mostly non-contact wouldn't do well in MMA. Look at Machida, he's almost all Karate and still manages to whoop ass.

BJJ isn't the end all be all of fight, it works extremly well in MMA because of submission, but in an all out street brawl going for an arm bar won't mean much when the dude your fighting is trying to snap your fingers off.

In a Street Fight, 8/10 I'd put my money on a Krav maga dude, the other 2 times a BJJ practitioner would be able to sink in a RNC put the guy to sleep.

I would like to know how Krav maga dude would rip nuts off lying on the floor knocked out and all. Try going for nuts.. rofl easy KO..especially if mma dude knows that opponent doesn't know shit bout boxing or kickboxing..

Good chance he won't be knocked out, Krav Maga also trains in aspects of BJJ & Muay Thai and they train to be ready to fight suddenly, like if attacked out of nowhere. It's something no other discipline really stresses at all. A BJJ guy might be much more skilled overall, but the Krav guy has instincts to try to do perminate damage quickly, like remove an eye or rip a sack off. It's very doubtful even a BJJ blackbelt could KO a dude in 1 punch, and if he doesn't, even when the fight goes to the ground most types of submission holds would leave a small joint exposed for the Krav guy to rip off.

Krav Maga is the only training I can think of where dirty fighting is encouraged. in BJJ or Judo everything is pretty similar to unified rules. With some of the subs breaking bones. Krav is what a lot of top milatry people use. BJJ = disable your opponent. Krav = permenately disable your opponent.

I'm not saying the Krav guy will win, there are a million things to factor in, like how long had each been training, and how good they were. But a skilled Krav dude will be a force, remember Krav incorporate techniques from BJJ & Muay Thai. So in addition to eye gouges, sack ripping & throat punches they have some striking, kicking and subs like RNC's & Triangles. They just put emphasis on lethal strikes, which are above and beyond the KO strikes MMA dudes study.

 

[gorbs]

seal, trained to kill. ufc while awesome on tv are trained to fight not kill. knock out or tap out.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: gorbs
seal, trained to kill. ufc while awesome on tv are trained to fight not kill. knock out or tap out.

Fail. Mixed Martial Artists do indeed usually learn plenty of incapacitating strikes as well.

Even the thread title fails, they are mixed martial artists, not Ultimate Fighters.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dNor

There's a lot of enlightenment that should probably be done in this thread. Someone underestimating no quarter combat like krav maga is pretty ridiculous.

Hrm, this thread is 100% idiot.

I'd go with 95%

Sorry, not all of us have been deployed to Iraq and Box, or deadlift 500 lbs, so thus we don't share your apparent omniscience of the military and MMA. :roll:

I guess that also includes Destrekor, who IIRC is active duty military. Please stop generalizing, just makes you look stupid.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: QueBert
They just put emphasis on lethal strikes, which are above and beyond the KO strikes MMA dudes study.

Err...krav maga is a MMA, one of many arts this "MMA fighter" could be proficient in.

 

[torpid]

I chose seal based on an episode of The Ultimate Fighter where someone attempted an arm bar and the other guy banged the arm-bar-attempter's head on concrete, more or less winning the fight. A lot of the points brought up in favor of the MMA guy are valid, but I think that a lot of times, the MMA guy would be so used to going for MMA techniques that it might not occur to them that they aren't necessarily the best thing to try in a life or death fight on concrete with no ref. This answer could be total crap, however, depending on what the close quarters combat training seals receive is like. I assume it's very much oriented towards all of the debilitating attacks that aren't allowed in MMA.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: QueBert
They just put emphasis on lethal strikes, which are above and beyond the KO strikes MMA dudes study.

Err...krav maga is a MMA, one of many arts this "MMA fighter" could be proficient in.

most Martial Art people do not really consider Krav Maga to be a true Martial Art, I don't know of a single professional MMA fighter outside of Bas Rutten who's ever even mentioned it. And none will train it, as 90% of what they learn would be illegal and useless in an MMA bout. The 10% they could use, would be techniques Krav borrowed from BJJ or Muay or Kick Boxing so they would already know them. Chuck Liddell isn't going to waste him time studing Krav because none of it translates to fighting that involves rules. Krav won't be suggested by many non Krav instructors, if any.


Krav is the worst discipline for an MMA fighter, and it's real world use isn't even that great, unless you plan to get held at gun point and want to know how to break the guys finger before he can shoot you

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: QueBert
They just put emphasis on lethal strikes, which are above and beyond the KO strikes MMA dudes study.

Err...krav maga is a MMA, one of many arts this "MMA fighter" could be proficient in.

most Martial Art people do not really consider Krav Maga to be a true Martial Art, I don't know of a single professional MMA fighter outside of Bas Rutten who's ever even mentioned it. And none will train it, as 90% of what they learn would be illegal and useless in an MMA bout. The 10% they could use, would be techniques Krav borrowed from BJJ or Muay or Kick Boxing so they would already know them. Chuck Liddell isn't going to waste him time studing Krav because none of it translates to fighting that involves rules. Krav won't be suggested by many non Krav instructors, if any.


Krav is the worst discipline for an MMA fighter, and it's real world use isn't even that great, unless you plan to get held at gun point and want to know how to break the guys finger before he can shoot you

Krav maga isn't popular in cage MMA bouts because, as you said, it's not well designed for it. We're not talking about Chuck Liddell or just some UFC fighter, though. As I said earlier in the thread, if that was the topic then it'd be a lot different. As it is, it's just any "MMA fighter", which could definitely include arts not suited/designed for organized bouts, such as krav maga.

Krav maga and other no quarter, full contact MMA vs. random UFC fighters would be a more interesting thread, IMO, since it'd provide actual background on both fighters' training.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: QueBert
They just put emphasis on lethal strikes, which are above and beyond the KO strikes MMA dudes study.

Err...krav maga is a MMA, one of many arts this "MMA fighter" could be proficient in.

most Martial Art people do not really consider Krav Maga to be a true Martial Art, I don't know of a single professional MMA fighter outside of Bas Rutten who's ever even mentioned it. And none will train it, as 90% of what they learn would be illegal and useless in an MMA bout. The 10% they could use, would be techniques Krav borrowed from BJJ or Muay or Kick Boxing so they would already know them. Chuck Liddell isn't going to waste him time studing Krav because none of it translates to fighting that involves rules. Krav won't be suggested by many non Krav instructors, if any.


Krav is the worst discipline for an MMA fighter, and it's real world use isn't even that great, unless you plan to get held at gun point and want to know how to break the guys finger before he can shoot you

Actually it's twist/grab the gun, kick the guy in the nuts, take his gun and hopefully break his finger in the process. Or some variation thereof.

And yes, hopefully I'll never have to apply the knowledge. In the meantime it keeps me in shape, and in the off chance I do get caught up in a street fight (narrowly avoided one once), I'll know how to defend myself.