Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: sourceninja
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: sourceninja
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is a fight people have when they are like 10 year olds: "Who can beat who up"
Seriously, people are downplaying Elite SpecOps personnel by a lot.
1. If we are comparing Elites, then shouldn't we use Delta Force Operatives instead of SEALS? After all, Seals are that top in the Navy, Delta's are the top of the top in all branches.
Agreed. Deltas are the ultimate badasses, and could kill anyone (including UFC guys) in no time. How much use would they be on the type of missions they go on if they could be easily taken out by some guy who knows a few martial arts? With several years of Delta training and missions ON TOP of their initial several years of Spec Ops training and missions (Rangers, SEALs whatever) I'm sure they can more than hold their own.
A "no weapons" fight would be even more fictional than this one though, as I would be surprised if those guys ever went anywhere on or off duty without a knife and/or gun.
Well, actually even if a normal martial artist could beat their ass in a one on one no weapons fight, they would still be amazingly useful. I'll tell you why.
The military does not send in alone unarmed troops to fight wars!!!! They send in people highly trained to use their environment and weapons to engage a foe without being seen and take them out. I highly doubt delta force guys tap the guy on the shoulder and try to kill him with their bare hands. I'd think their most important skill is using squad based tactics to defeat their opponents. Again, there is no damn reason soldiers of any kind need expert hand to hand combat skills. They need good / passable skills to deal with the rare situation where they are alone and unarmed.
So then this whole premise is unfairly biased toward the UFC guy. How about UFC vs Delta with knives or clubs? This would seem much more fair, and if the elite UFC guy was so awesome he could easily disarm the Delta and use one of the choke/death moves that he's spent decades perfecting!
Exactly my point. Most people here seem to thing elite soldier groups are like rambo. Just one man super killing machines that can be dropped into the jungle behind the lines with just a paper clip and a compass and will have the communists giving up their whole country by lunchtime.
They don't understand the purpose of military training and the purpose of combat sports. Simply put, the need of unarmed hand to hand, one on one, fighting is not very high for the military.
That's funny, that's almost the entire emphasis of the IDF and the Krav Maga training. Multiple opponents and unspecified weaponry. Bursting. Etc. And that model is closely reflected in SAS, and so on.
What you say does have an element of truth though, as easily 75% of the consistency of elite military training is in operations; detect/evade, communication, stealth, intelligence, languages, etc, etc. But you have to also realize that it takes millions of dollars and countless man-hours to train a single individual to be combat ready at that level, and that they're not going to just 'gloss over' the hand-to-hand aspect, as that would be an unacceptable risk to run with investments of that magnitude. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy is an old but well respected maxim. For this reason, basic direct-contact combat training is integral to the survivability of these men. Above all, the psychological development is to become a singular implementation of death, with zero respect or compunction for the human life that is unlucky enough to be their target(s).
Strangely enough, you see the result of the differing psychological profiles and even moods, in unexpected results. How many times have you predicted that one fighter would win, having obvious advantages in training, style, or raw stamina and strength, yet the underdog would just will himself on to victory regardless. That's only a fraction of the kind of drive that exists in men who prepare for a career serving their nations at the very probable cost of their own lives in the event of a serious engagement.