Ultimate Gaming Computer?

[Merovingian]

So, my buddy would like me to build him a great gaming computer and it wouldn't be right not to run it by the anandtech forums.

Here is what I was thinking so far...

Intel E6300
EVGA 680i motherboard
EVGA 8800GTX
Seagate 750GB Hard drive
Coolermaster Stacker 830 case
Coolermaster 850W PSU
Coolermaster CPU cooler
Ram?
24" Dell monitor

The plan is to overclock the snot out of that E6300 with the 680i and see if one 8800GTX is enough to power these games at full res with very high quality. If not we can always get another one but I don't think that it would be prudent to get the third card right now until more games start utilizing it, would that be wise?

The Coolermaster stuff is free for me so after I go to CES to see their new products I will then decide which case, PSU and CPU cooler.

I hear that the 750GB Hard Drives are faster for loading games/levels than the 150GB 10k RPM Raptors. I want to go with whatever one is faster unless it doesn't make that much difference in which case I would go with the larger drive. There is no real benefit to raid0 for gaming is there? Otherwise I would probably get that if it makes any real world difference here.

As I understand it, ram should be of a type that is recommended for the motherboard but doesn't really effect perfomance that much for gaming unless you are really going for super high frame rate that exceeds the GPU bottle neck. That's not exactly right but I don't want to spend $350 on a pair of 1GB sticks when perfectly good ones can be had for $250. What do you think? Worth it?

And finally the Dell 24" monitor, is it the best gaming monitor? Any advice here would be much appreciated. Thank you guys for giving me a hand and I hope you all are enjoying a very happy holiday.

-mero

 

[Merovingian]

I suppose I must have miss labeled my post? So everybody agree or should I change my post for better advice?

 

[EricMartello]

When I build a system, I try to match parts together that work well but not parts that aren't necessary. I don't see the need for an 850W PSU with this system unless you plan on SLIing another 8800 in the future. I'd opt for a RaptorX 150GB hard drive for the system and maybe two spanned 500 GB disks for storage. Can't go wrong with Western Digital for the hard drives.

These are just my prefs, I haven't don't any recent research into the latest and greatest gear since my current system still serves my needs quite well.

In all honesty, it might be better to hold off on any major system builds until Vista's release, since you'll want DX10 for that 8800 and as far as I know DX10 is Vista only. As you may guess, there will certainly be a list of hardware that "works" and stuff that doesn't work, and driver support is always a consideration as well. Even if your system has the power to support Vista, it may not actually do so with stability...so my advice, wait a few more months

 

[Roguestar]

Splash out the extra couple of $$$ and get an E6400 for easier overclocking. If you're going to overclock the extra multiplier will help.

 

[Dave Richardson]

It wiil be ultimate for about a month.

 

[KeithTalent]

Some very good C2D RAM information here: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1966035&enterthread=y

Everything else looks good, though I agree with Roguestar: get the E6400, particularly if you plan on OCing.

Good luck!

KT

 

[Boyo]

That mobo has some issues. Not sure if they woked all the bugs out, but it is something I would look into. Also I agree on getting a 150GB Raptor for the OS.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

what are you going to do about sound? use onboard sound?

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: EricMartello
When I build a system, I try to match parts together that work well but not parts that aren't necessary. I don't see the need for an 850W PSU with this system unless you plan on SLIing another 8800 in the future.

Well, the PSU is free for me anyway but he does plan on getting dual SLI and a physics card when games he plays start to utilize them.

Originally posted by: Roguestar
Splash out the extra couple of $$$ and get an E6400 for easier overclocking. If you're going to overclock the extra multiplier will help.

3.5Ghz should be fine but how likely will it be that I'll even get a chip that can do that? When considering the probability of exceeding 3.5Ghz, what gains will be seen and value, I wonder if it's still worth it?

Originally posted by: Dave Richardson
It wiil be ultimate for about a month.

Really? What is coming out in a month?

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Some very good C2D RAM information here: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1966035&enterthread=y

Sweet, thanks for the info, I'll read it after this post.

Originally posted by: Boyo
That mobo has some issues. Not sure if they woked all the bugs out, but it is something I would look into. Also I agree on getting a 150GB Raptor for the OS.

Yeah, they have had some issues with data corruption that has been fixed. There have been some holes in the FSB overclocking that to my knowledge have not been plugged. Thing is that my friends and I have always loved Asus features and have had nothing but bad luck with reliability and having to RMA the motherboards over and over and I don't know of another 680i motherboard on the market. Also, in contrast to Asus unreliability the evga motherboard has a lifetime limited warranty. I'm open to suggestions obviously.

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
what are you going to do about sound? use onboard sound?

Yeah, I think on board sound is fine as this computer won't be utilizing high fidelity speakers or a surround sound set up. These days, on board sound seems pretty solid don't you think?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

yea it wont be so ultimate for as long as you think. and a 150gb raptor is still the fastest SATA hdd on the market. use the 750gb for storage or 2 x 320. onboard soud is for those who don't really care about sound quality, in benchmarks onboard sound will utilize about 4% of CPU power where dedicated sound card will utilize about 1%.
"Asus Unreliability"? is this why asus is the #1 selling mb company in the world? or is it because asus mb's have had the least problems as compared to its competition?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Merovingian

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
what are you going to do about sound? use onboard sound?

Yeah, I think on board sound is fine as this computer won't be utilizing high fidelity speakers or a surround sound set up. These days, on board sound seems pretty solid don't you think?

Boo, one of the few areas where you can spend some serious money for the system that will actually hold its value

 

[lupi]

Grab another card for SLI and get the 30" monitor; then we'd start talking about ultimate

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
yea it wont be so ultimate for as long as you think. and a 150gb raptor is still the fastest SATA hdd on the market. use the 750gb for storage or 2 x 320. onboard soud is for those who don't really care about sound quality, in benchmarks onboard sound will utilize about 4% of CPU power where dedicated sound card will utilize about 1%.
"Asus Unreliability"? is this why asus is the #1 selling mb company in the world? or is it because asus mb's have had the least problems as compared to its competition?

-150GB Raptors are great for access time useful in running windows and most other applications but not as good as the 750GB in data transfer which would seem to be the reason why the raptor is not as fast at loading games or levels. This is a gaming computer and the 750GB happens to run office and windows just fine and it also runs games slightly faster and carries much more storage. Am I not completely correct? Are there other applications I should consider that are more demanding that would be of use to a standard user? I know that windows won't boot quite as quickly by a sec or two. Perhaps this can be resolved by putting two raptors in raid0? Any benches on that? Just curious but who actually has benches that justify 150GB raptors for a gaming machine? You may be hard pressed to justify such a claim.

-Storage will be in raid5 for important data retundant protection, those are already purchased.

-On board sound taking 4% of a single core on such a system should not, IMO, effect the performance of the game play, am I right?

-Asus maybe the #1 MB manufacturer because they produce boards for excellent companies such as Dell and Apple, however, those companies design their own boards for Asus to produce. Many people also purchase boards from asus because they are always the first to come out with the latest chipsets with, IMO, the best features. How else do people choose boards outside of these values but after many problems, rma's, etc. you mey try something else. I'm going to give EVGA a try and would invite you to tell me what other motherboards you have had also tested which leads you to believe that cause asus boards in my experiance and the experiance of many other builders that they fail all too often.

Originally posted by: lupi
Grab another card for SLI and get the 30" monitor; then we'd start talking about ultimate

Got a 30" monitor with higher res than 1920? I've seen the 32" 1920res up close and it's not pretty for a computer that is a few feet in front of your face with it's blocky pixals. 24" seemed to be the max. The apple 30" super high res would be great but the response time is lacking for games. I'm very interested in a better solution.

 

[JLGatsby]

If that's considered "ultimate," I'll join the circus.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If that's considered "ultimate," I'll join the circus.

What a nice guy

I'd get the GTS card and overclock the crap out of it, but that's just my opinion

Ram? That will probably depend on whether or not you might overclock.

I'm a big ASUS fan myself and have been using their boards for years without any problems. I have the 680i P5N32-E SLI board and am quite happy with it. The eVGA board is a bit cheaper and with the new BIOS available, it sounds like it's reached a decent level of stability. That's definitely a good option as well.

 

[Dave Richardson]

Seriously for a moment...

Unless you just won the lottery, are seriously wealthy or really have a NEED to build the fastest, best, biggest, highest powered PC possible may I advise you to seriously think about the economics.

A PC is a set of 10 - 20 individual components.

Some components like the case "age" very slowly. If you buy a really good case now (excluding power supply) you will probably still be using it in 5 to 10 years time. That makes the cost of ownership of the case low even if you spend a great deal of money on it and buy from the top tier of cases designed for home use.

Some components like the graphics card(s) age very quickly. Even normal sane people will change them out every year or 18 months. Graphics cards are potentially the most expensive component. Their depreciation is massive. The cost of ownership of "ultimate" graphics cards is very very high - especially if you go down the dual card route.

Everything else fits in between. Don't forget software costs for new OS and utilities in here as well.

I made a short somewhat facetious post earlier in this thread about an ultimate machine only being ultimate for about a month. I guarantee that whatever you buy now, about one month from now there will either be something new or something expensive that just got cheaper and slipped into your price range that you would have preferred to buy instead.

I don't think you should ever plan to build a PC to be ultimate. Plan to build a PC to do what you want to do now and for the next 6 months. In practice that will easily serve you well for 1 to 2 years. Keep an eye on the cost of ownership per component. As a general rule for expensive fast moving items like graphics cards I recommend looking at what is most expensive (the bleeding edge) then backing off a level. If you have access to a spreadsheet run a few cost of ownership models for ten years and frighten yourself. The point I am making here is that your bragging rights are severely restricted, your computing "experience" ever so slightly diminished, but money saved is serious.

At the end of the day a PC is just an engine to run software applications. What is the point of having an engine expensively built to be massively more powerful than any current application demands?

 

[JargonGR]

Hi,

Well if I will add to the comments about "Ultimate".

Here is what I am building and still I don't consider it too Ultimate

CASE
Mountain MODS U2-UFO
CM STACKER 810

Well I have both and I need to migrate to the U2-UFO with all sorts of mods in there


Motherboard:
ASUS WS64 PRO (I have - will buy an Nvidia 680i in January after Abit releases their m/b too and see a review - the current ones have certain issues but can be dealt with. If the ABIT is not THE M/B I will buy the Asus Striker Extreme.

CPU

-E6600 @ 3.6GHZ on AIR SCYTHE INFINITY- (I have bought an high end w/c and will install soon)

VGA

2 X 8800GTX SLI O/Ced and will be watercooled when I get my blocks next week (I already have those - lol one is waiting for the 680i M/B)

RAM

OCZ Titanium Alpha PC8000 running @ 800MHZ 3-3-3-9 2.4V

HARD DISKS

2X 74GB Raptors in RAID0 - (will replace with the 150GB sometime in the future)
2X 320GB WD SATA
1X EXTERNAL WD MEdia Station 120GB Firewire/USB

some more 120gb, 80GB but will be put to my old FX-53 box that will use as Net & Storage station

OPTICAL
NEC-DV5800E (patched firmware/unlocke - rips at 12-16X) also have a pioneer.
PIONEER DVR 111L (also hacked firmware unlocked)
PLEXTOR DVD-R (8X)

Sound Card
Audigy2 ZS Platinum EX (thinking of upgrading to Xi-Fi)

SPEAKERS

Creative Gigaset 7.1

Keyboard/Mouse
LOGITECH G15 Gaming Keyboard
LOGITECH MX 1000 Laser Mouse (serves well for now)
Gamepad Logitech Wingman Rumble...
Racing Wheell Logitech F1 (dont remember the rest now)

MONITOR

PRIMARY - HP-LP3065 - Better than the Dell 30" (and more expensive) its new and supports 92% colour Gamout

SECONDARY - 22" CRT Diamontron (will replace with a 17" or 19" TFT I have cause it takes too much freaking space)

- Also planning to get either a Projector or an HDTV 1920x1080p 47" for games only

WATERCOOLING GEAR

DUAL LOOP

1st Loop - VGAs 2x 8800GTX

Radiator : Thermochill PA.120.3 0 the best out
Pump : Dual LAING DDC+ Pro (18W) with modified top.
Waterblocks - Apogee 1U (server version) with G80 Adapter Plates
Filter inline, Thermosensor and Plexi Reservoir

2nd Loop CPU ( I may add some M/B blocks if needed)
Thermochill PA120.2
LAING DDC+ Pro
Swiftech Apogee Extreme (better than storm on for Quadcores and only marginally lesser in Dualcore (1C difference)
Reservoir Swiftech Microres

And lots of parts, for flow controll, temp readings, Fan Controllers, UV fans, cables, lights etc (all blue and balck)

Damn I think my wife will kick me from home if she reads this post!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Merovingian
And finally the Dell 24" monitor, is it the best gaming monitor? Any advice here would be much appreciated. Thank you guys for giving me a hand and I hope you all are enjoying a very happy holiday.

Get the BenQ FP241W. Much better image quality. Still doesn't have 1:1 scaling but you can get that with your NVIDIA card anyway.

Originally posted by: JargonGR
PRIMARY - HP-LP3065 - Better than the Dell 30" (and more expensive) its new and supports 92% colour Gamut

It'll look beautiful, just don't expect it to be very fast at games. I'm sure it's fast enough for some people. You'll want to make sure your setup can push such a high native res if you plan on gaming on this monitor, as well.

 

[JargonGR]

xtknight

FYI the HP-LP3065 uses the same panel as the upcoming Dell 3007WFP-HC and has a response time of 8ms compared to the current Dell 11-14ms. It is not a matter of comaring it to the current Dell at all sinc the current Dell 30" is old news colour and performance wise.

The HP also has 3x DVI inputs compared to the 3007WFP-HC that only has 1.

If you need info and a some huge threads discussing those things head to Hardforum at the dispaly section and check out user feedback that have both monitors.

At the moment the HP is the best 30" you can buy for games/movies etc.


As for my set up I think that an overcolcked E6600@3.6GHZ and 2x8800GTX SLI will suffice for now.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

actually the 150gb raptor should loads games faster than the 750gb. but i guess you think you're right in ever aspect of computer building so its your loss. seems to me like you know everything already, why ask for help if you're not taking any suggestions

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Merovingian
-150GB Raptors are great for access time useful in running windows and most other applications but not as good as the 750GB in data transfer which would seem to be the reason why the raptor is not as fast at loading games or levels. This is a gaming computer and the 750GB happens to run office and windows just fine and it also runs games slightly faster and carries much more storage. Am I not completely correct? Are there other applications I should consider that are more demanding that would be of use to a standard user? I know that windows won't boot quite as quickly by a sec or two. Perhaps this can be resolved by putting two raptors in raid0? Any benches on that? Just curious but who actually has benches that justify 150GB raptors for a gaming machine? You may be hard pressed to justify such a claim.

Um, are you getting your information from a BestBuy sales guy? And yeah, you are completely incorrect...well you are correct in that the 750GB has more storage space. Do some reading. The Raptor is faster in all categories. Now whether the performance is worth it to you is another story.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Merovingian

-Asus maybe the #1 MB manufacturer because they produce boards for excellent companies such as Dell and Apple, however, those companies design their own boards for Asus to produce. Many people also purchase boards from asus because they are always the first to come out with the latest chipsets with, IMO, the best features. How else do people choose boards outside of these values but after many problems, rma's, etc. you mey try something else. I'm going to give EVGA a try and would invite you to tell me what other motherboards you have had also tested which leads you to believe that cause asus boards in my experiance and the experiance of many other builders that they fail all too often.

dell actually makes their own motherboards. and even if other companys like to use asus boards, they chose them for a reason as compared to other companies that are second tier and have problems such as incompatibilities with certain types of ram.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: JargonGR
xtknight

FYI the HP-LP3065 uses the same panel as the upcoming Dell 3007WFP-HC and has a response time of 8ms compared to the current Dell 11-14ms. It is not a matter of comaring it to the current Dell at all sinc the current Dell 30" is old news colour and performance wise.

The HP also has 3x DVI inputs compared to the 3007WFP-HC that only has 1.

If you need info and a some huge threads discussing those things head to Hardforum at the dispaly section and check out user feedback that have both monitors.

At the moment the HP is the best 30" you can buy for games/movies etc.


As for my set up I think that an overcolcked E6600@3.6GHZ and 2x8800GTX SLI will suffice for now.

You're right, the HP is the best 30" you can buy right now. Beautiful monitor. However, I'm waiting on the new Dell LCD (3007WFP-HC) because I will probably be able to get it cheaper, I prefer the way it looks (design wise), and it will look great with the secondary 2007FP LCD I'm going to buy with it. I'm going to finally retire my Sony G500 CRT monitor. It still looks great, but I just want something bigger.

One other thing, why the heck would you need 3 DVI connections on a 30" LCD like HP's? Does anyone plan on connecting two other dual-link capable PCs to their monitor? If you do, that is great, but I don't have a need for anything more than one DVI connection on that 30". I'm going to have enough trouble with ONE machine feeding that monster res.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Merovingian
So, my buddy would like me to build him a great gaming computer and it wouldn't be right not to run it by the anandtech forums.

Here is what I was thinking so far...

Intel E6300
EVGA 680i motherboard
EVGA 8800GTX
Seagate 750GB Hard drive
Coolermaster Stacker 830 case
Coolermaster 850W PSU
Coolermaster CPU cooler
Ram?
24" Dell monitor

The plan is to overclock the snot out of that E6300 with the 680i and see if one 8800GTX is enough to power these games at full res with very high quality. If not we can always get another one but I don't think that it would be prudent to get the third card right now until more games start utilizing it, would that be wise?

The Coolermaster stuff is free for me so after I go to CES to see their new products I will then decide which case, PSU and CPU cooler.

I hear that the 750GB Hard Drives are faster for loading games/levels than the 150GB 10k RPM Raptors. I want to go with whatever one is faster unless it doesn't make that much difference in which case I would go with the larger drive. There is no real benefit to raid0 for gaming is there? Otherwise I would probably get that if it makes any real world difference here.

As I understand it, ram should be of a type that is recommended for the motherboard but doesn't really effect perfomance that much for gaming unless you are really going for super high frame rate that exceeds the GPU bottle neck. That's not exactly right but I don't want to spend $350 on a pair of 1GB sticks when perfectly good ones can be had for $250. What do you think? Worth it?

And finally the Dell 24" monitor, is it the best gaming monitor? Any advice here would be much appreciated. Thank you guys for giving me a hand and I hope you all are enjoying a very happy holiday.

-mero

You say Ultimate build......
It appears that your experience building computers leaves alot to be deisred as far as components and your reasons for buying your components need to be updated!!

Take a look at the CPU.....you are nowhere near to ultimate....
I feel you could do much better even over clocking the snot out of the e6300 chip is a crap shoot at best............

The mobo your using has issues....
Personally what you say in the rest of this thread about ASUS motherboards is a crock....

ASUS is the #1 motherbaords company for a reason whether you agree or not does not change that fact!!
As was stated by somebody else -- That mobo has some issues......
"Asus Unreliability"? is this why asus is the #1 selling mb company in the world? or is it because asus mb's have had the least problems as compared to its competition?
I'm a big ASUS fan myself and have been using their boards for years without any problems. I have the 680i P5N32-E SLI board and am quite happy with it.
dell actually makes their own motherboards. and even if other companys like to use asus boards, they chose them for a reason as compared to other companies that are second tier and have problems such as incompatibilities with certain types of ram.
but to eacxh there own...all w can do is say we disagree....

Then concerning the harddrive - it matters nothing the size of your harddrive...
If you have a 750 gig hardrive that spins at 7,200 rpm and another hardrive that spins at 10,000 the 10,000 rpm wins everytime.....

Then as far as memory goes...if your going to over clock the snot out of the 6300, you need some good not average or above average you need some good memory which equates to $$$$$.
If you were just going to do some mild over clcoking you could get away with cheaping out on memory....
Then you talk about gaming..... especially games that rely on fps.....the more ram the better! For some reason which we have not figured out; my friends video card a 7900 over clocked a lot better when he went to 4 gigs of ram in his machine verses 1 gig!!

There are many many good gaming monitors on the market..... I personally like the gateway or the samsung brands.

Also don`t be suprised if your temps crap out on you with the coolermaster heatsinks!!
I have a feeling you will be buying an aditional heatsink.
But I don`t feel like duscussiong heatsinks other than to say...there are many top of the line heatsinks!! I personally wouldn`t place the coolerMaster heatsink up there with the best...Ultra120....Tuniq Tower....etc...
Sure you can post reviews but real world apps are a much bettr indicator of how good a heatsink is! From one computer to another what works for you might be crap for me!!

Please note many of the things your putting in your machine are not ultimate and will be 2nd or even 3rd teir in a few months........

Then again I have never seen a Ultimate gaming machine using Coolermaster parts....but since you can get them for free all the more power to you!!


I`m not here to argue so please don`t tell me your reasonings....after all it was you who stated -- ....it wouldn't be right not to run it by the anandtech forums.

Good luck!!

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: 3NF
I'd get the GTS card and overclock the crap out of it, but that's just my opinion

Ram? That will probably depend on whether or not you might overclock.

I'm a big ASUS fan myself and have been using their boards for years without any problems. I have the 680i P5N32-E SLI board and am quite happy with it. The eVGA board is a bit cheaper and with the new BIOS available, it sounds like it's reached a decent level of stability. That's definitely a good option as well.

GTS card sounds like a great idea, I wonder if I will be able to find any benchmarks about this but I certainly got my 6800GT's to out run any out of the box 6800Ultras. In that case the cards were the same PCB but different voltages, coolers, etc. Is that the same with the GTS and the GTX?

As for the ram, I have never had a problem using crappy ram to get max cpu performance assuming that I have a motherboard with proper memory dividers. I can't see why the ram even effects the speed of the cpu overclock in such cases as it should be completely independent.

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If that's considered "ultimate," I'll join the circus.

Haha, well, we may go 2x8800GTX's but I'd like to see if we need them for the games he plays first. Likewise, the physics card isn't used on any of the games he currently uses but I'm sure that once he comes across one, the physics card will be ordered. I also understand that a better sound card would be great for fps games because I play them using a sound blaster audigy 4 pro with 5.1 properly installed so I can hear where people are shooting me from, however, my buddy does not play these types of games. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't join the circus on my account.

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Um, are you getting your information from a BestBuy sales guy? And yeah, you are completely incorrect...well you are correct in that the 750GB has more storage space. Do some reading. The Raptor is faster in all categories. Now whether the performance is worth it to you is another story.

Haha, Bestbuy sales guy or some other miss information. Thanks for pulling up the information about the raptor vs the 750GB, I wonder if I was reading a comparo between the 750 and the 74GB, hmm, I dunno but thanks for the input. It's interesting on deciding if it's worth it, I have a 74GB raptor from a while back and it's fine but the numbers don't look much better, hmm.

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
dell actually makes their own motherboards. and even if other companys like to use asus boards, they chose them for a reason as compared to other companies that are second tier and have problems such as incompatibilities with certain types of ram.

Well, your response seems to imply that dell does not use asus motherboards with out saying that expressly, dell probably does produce their own motherboards but I will tell you that I have personally seen Asus written on motherboards fresh from dell. Next, the reasons why motherboards fail is not only because of manufacturing. I never said that asus has poor manufacturing but that the design my be overly focused on features and less focused on reliability. Design of PCB's is where they are probably screwing up in terms of reliability, not the components or the manufacturing.

This seems like a very profitable idea as most users like myself order motherboards based upon features but may not consider reliabilty. Could be that I am not one of the many users with this problem but EVGA seems to have great warrenties such as not voiding your GPU warrenty when you upgrade the GPU cooler and they carry a lifetime warrenty on this mobo. Anybody ever have a problem with EVGA customer support or reliability?

Originally posted by: Dave Richardson
Seriously for a moment...

Unless you just won the lottery, are seriously wealthy or really have a NEED to build the fastest, best, biggest, highest powered PC possible may I advise you to seriously think about the economics.

A PC is a set of 10 - 20 individual components.

Some components like the case "age" very slowly. If you buy a really good case now (excluding power supply) you will probably still be using it in 5 to 10 years time. That makes the cost of ownership of the case low even if you spend a great deal of money on it and buy from the top tier of cases designed for home use.

Some components like the graphics card(s) age very quickly. Even normal sane people will change them out every year or 18 months. Graphics cards are potentially the most expensive component. Their depreciation is massive. The cost of ownership of "ultimate" graphics cards is very very high - especially if you go down the dual card route.

Everything else fits in between. Don't forget software costs for new OS and utilities in here as well.

I made a short somewhat facetious post earlier in this thread about an ultimate machine only being ultimate for about a month. I guarantee that whatever you buy now, about one month from now there will either be something new or something expensive that just got cheaper and slipped into your price range that you would have preferred to buy instead.

I don't think you should ever plan to build a PC to be ultimate. Plan to build a PC to do what you want to do now and for the next 6 months. In practice that will easily serve you well for 1 to 2 years. Keep an eye on the cost of ownership per component. As a general rule for expensive fast moving items like graphics cards I recommend looking at what is most expensive (the bleeding edge) then backing off a level. If you have access to a spreadsheet run a few cost of ownership models for ten years and frighten yourself. The point I am making here is that your bragging rights are severely restricted, your computing "experience" ever so slightly diminished, but money saved is serious.

At the end of the day a PC is just an engine to run software applications. What is the point of having an engine expensively built to be massively more powerful than any current application demands?

I completely agree, I don't like to waste money which is why my ultimate game system is not a quad core $500 2GB ram set up with two inline 1.2GW PSU's. Basically, this system will tie my buddy over till some time next year when cheap quad core cpus can be overclocked with DDR3. This of course will only happen when games benefit from such specs.

Originally posted by: JargonGR
Hi,

Well if I will add to the comments about "Ultimate".

Here is what I am building and still I don't consider it too Ultimate

CASE
Mountain MODS U2-UFO
CM STACKER 810

Btw, the stacker 810 is for quad cpu socket motherboards. You probably want my case which is the STC-01 stacker which can fit two PSU's if needed and has a removeable tray.

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Merovingian
And finally the Dell 24" monitor, is it the best gaming monitor? Any advice here would be much appreciated. Thank you guys for giving me a hand and I hope you all are enjoying a very happy holiday.

Get the BenQ FP241W. Much better image quality. Still doesn't have 1:1 scaling but you can get that with your NVIDIA card anyway.

Sweet, thanks for the advice and I'll make sure to take a close look at it before deciding, givin the advice in the thread, I doubt I'll be choosing the Dell 24". I kinda expected to find a someone who knew of a better monitor here.

Originally posted by: JargonGR
xtknight

FYI the HP-LP3065 uses the same panel as the upcoming Dell 3007WFP-HC and has a response time of 8ms compared to the current Dell 11-14ms. It is not a matter of comaring it to the current Dell at all sinc the current Dell 30" is old news colour and performance wise.

The HP also has 3x DVI inputs compared to the 3007WFP-HC that only has 1.

If you need info and a some huge threads discussing those things head to Hardforum at the dispaly section and check out user feedback that have both monitors.

At the moment the HP is the best 30" you can buy for games/movies etc.

I considered the westinghouse (I think that's the name) 37" 8ms LCD for around a grand. My buddy says the pixles would be way too blocky when you are sitting up close and the 30" is entering HUGE territory, what do you think is too big? 1920x1200ish range at computer monitor distance?