Ultimate Muscle Training Guide

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Koing
I can't be assed to do curls so I do pull ups instead . Also has really thicken out my lats also and upper back.

Koing

I love pull-ups and lat pull-downs...but I also love curls, so I think I lucked out. I like most tricep exercises, too, but for some reason I just hate doing "nosebreakers." They work great, and I do them, but I hate every minute of it. Heh.

I also hate legs as a whole, but it's tough to get away with ignoring them for very long.

I have found that any more than 4-6 sets of bis a week is counter productive. The bicep is a very small muscle, and easily over worked. Most people who have followed my advice and limited their bicep work have seen good gains in bicep size and strength.

Like I said before, the bulk of your arm size will come from presses and rows. Doing excessive arm isolation exercises can and will over work them, and be counter productive.

I'd agree that biceps are definitely easy to overwork (in my experience, even moreso than triceps). I break my bis apart from my back for exactly this reason, and couple them with my tris so that I just don't have the time to do very much. I'm not sure if 4-6 sets would work well for me, but I'll never do more than three or four exercises on my bi days.

Then again, I could always just try doing 3 sets of preacher curls and 3 sets of seated or standing dumbbell curls, stopping after that, and seeing how things turn out. I'm all for shortening my workouts =P

I do pull ups like this:

7reps x 4 sets with 60seconds rest inbetween each set = 28 pull ups in a session.

The other day I did 7reps x 3 sets then on my 4th set I did 15 pull ups with a longer rest = 36 pull ups in that session.



I have been doing this 3x a week for the past 5 weeks or so. So this gives me a total of 12 sets in a week but I'm not looking to increase too much in size. I just want more numbers . My arms feel fine but I don't do a lot of exercises. I only BP, pull ups, rows and dips and obliques. Rest of my time is spend coaching the other lifters. I get enough recovery as I don't do much in the way of anything due to my injury.

Note on the pull ups I go all the way down and all the way up. Not some half assed thing you see in most gyms where the guy never goes straight back down

Koing

Yeah, I mostly do lat pulldowns because it allows me to do more than my bodyweight...and I just like the feel of the exercise itself. I save a few (two or three) sets of roughly 10-14 pull-ups for the very end of my back routine, depending on how I feel. It's a fun exercise, though, so I fit it in if at all possible.

Edit: btw, I never do olympic lifts, which is generally why I do so many other exercises. I've just never gotten into OLs, and since I'm happy where I am now, I'll stick with how things are going. I might try them out at some point in the future, though, since I know how beneficial they can be.

Trust me man, do deads for 8 weeks...you'll HATE them but you'll LOVE them at the same time.

 

[Koing]

I see.

Or just do weighted pull ups . I've hung a 45Kg DB and done one pull before and I weigh all of 83Kg but I'll more then likely never do a one arm pull up due to the size and weight of my legs as an OLifter . That would be THE ULTIMATE or rather one of them :thumbsup:

I've seen one guy do it but he was an ex international Gymnast and his upperbody was STACKED but his legs small and didn't weigh much because of what he did. Incredible to see a guy do it right in front of you.

Koing

 

[TerranForces]

flax seeds give similar effects to fish oil but have actually shown to decrease testosterone slightly.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
Personally, I would get rid of the fish oil stuff and take add flax seeds into your diet. You can find flax seeds in your local grocery store so thats one less trip to the drugstore/nutrition store and flax seeds are a lot cheaper in the long run. Personally, I like to incorporate things into my diet rather than chug down pills.

Fish oil is fan-frickin-tastic man. It comes in a pill form, but it's still just fish oil. Cheap as heck to if you know where to look...like $3 for a bottle of 100.

In my "hardcore" days I would take 16 pills @ a time (1 pill = 16 grams). EXCELLENT source of Omega-3s. And didn't taste nearly as bad as flax oil...

But the burps....oh my god....haha....

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: Koing
I see.

Or just do weighted pull ups . I've hung a 45Kg DB and done one pull before and I weigh all of 83Kg but I'll more then likely never do a one arm pull up due to the size and weight of my legs as an OLifter . That would be THE ULTIMATE or rather one of them :thumbsup:

I've seen one guy do it but he was an ex international Gymnast and his upperbody was STACKED but his legs small and didn't weigh much because of what he did. Incredible to see a guy do it right in front of you.

Koing

I'll give one-handed a try at some point and let you know how it goes, but I doubt I'll be able to pull it off. =)

I've added weight before while doing pull-ups, but the gym I go to now doesn't have a belt with a chain to hold the plate. I've also just tried holding a dumbbell with my feet, but that it's very comfortable. So for now, I just go with the pull-downs, and then pull-ups at the end.

And yeah, if I do any kind of OL, deadlift would most likely be the one I'd go for first. I'll let you know when that time comes.

 

[TerranForces]

I have just started doing weighted pullups and dips. I hold a 25lb DB in between my knees and do about 5-7 reps. Any suggestions on how to hold it. Do I have to buy a Dip belt? BTW, a study on Bodybuilding.com showed that Squats, Dead lifts, and Bench Press actually produced a lot of testosterone. I work one of them into each of my workouts. I usually do dead lifts on back/bi day. That means that squats could give you bigger arms theoretically. You need a good all around physique first. The only isolation exercises I do are the occasional barbell curl or calf raise.

 

[Koing]

I'll probably guess you can't do a one arm pull up Whipser . I heard it was only 1 in 10'000 people that could do a strict one arm pull up.

I just hold the DB between my thighs. It feels fine to me. You can get a belt if you want but the DBs are comfortable for me. Maybe if the handles were short or something else it would be a pain?

Deadlift isn't part of OLifting . Snatch and C&J and the other part exercises are. DL is part of PowerLifting (BP, Squat, DL)

Koing

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: TerranForces
I have just started doing weighted pullups and dips. I hold a 25lb DB in between my knees and do about 5-7 reps. Any suggestions on how to hold it. Do I have to buy a Dip belt? BTW, a study on Bodybuilding.com showed that Squats, Dead lifts, and Bench Press actually produced a lot of testosterone. I work one of them into each of my workouts. I usually do dead lifts on back/bi day. That means that squats could give you bigger arms theoretically. You need a good all around physique first. The only isolation exercises I do are the occasional barbell curl or calf raise.

Working 'big muscle groups' will help your body to increase testerone production. BP not so much but definately the squat and the DL or OL if you do that. I've been telling people this for years.

Koing

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Koing
I'll probably guess you can't do a one arm pull up Whipser . I heard it was only 1 in 10'000 people that could do a strict one arm pull up.

I just hold the DB between my thighs. It feels fine to me. You can get a belt if you want but the DBs are comfortable for me. Maybe if the handles were short or something else it would be a pain?

Deadlift isn't part of OLifting . Snatch and C&J and the other part exercises are. DL is part of PowerLifting (BP, Squat, DL)

Koing

Point taken.

I just hear way too many excuses for why people don't do deads...or even squats for that matter...

Can you say...PUSSIES?!?!? haha...

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: Koing
I'll probably guess you can't do a one arm pull up Whipser . I heard it was only 1 in 10'000 people that could do a strict one arm pull up.

I just hold the DB between my thighs. It feels fine to me. You can get a belt if you want but the DBs are comfortable for me. Maybe if the handles were short or something else it would be a pain?

Deadlift isn't part of OLifting . Snatch and C&J and the other part exercises are. DL is part of PowerLifting (BP, Squat, DL)

Koing

Point taken.

I just hear way too many excuses for why people don't do deads...or even squats for that matter...

Can you say...PUSSIES?!?!? haha...

People can't be bothered to do legs. They are just lazy or hate it. Either way they miss out on a lot by not doing them and then they wonder why they aren't getting bigger?!

I'm going to Front Squat 200Kg for a single rep before I'm 30 and do 200kg back squat for reps.

Koing

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

One MAJOR thing you forgot to mention for building muscle is the Bracketing Method. It's the single most powerful muscle building tool you can integrate into your nutrition.

You just linked to the site of a guy selling a product. Not exactly unbiased information there.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Amused
It is very simple, if you're lifting right and not gaining, you're not eating enough. If you're eating enough and gaining fat, but not muscle, you're not lifting right. If you're eating enough and not gaining muscle or fat, you're over training

I have a question for you:

Where does protein intake come into play? I've heard that people need xxx grams of protein and I've seen people eat tons of protein per day. I did that for a while but I honestly didn't see much gain from it. I stopped taking protein supplements and I don't notice any drawback. I don't think I need as much protein as some people say you need.

Also, another thing I noticed is that if you're just going for bulk, then doing what you say will definitely make you bigger, but if you go to play sports you'll be bulky and out of shape since you'll have no endurance. I had to start running a lot to get more endurance, but then the running burns some muscle away. The best balance I found was doing sprints. Distance running makes me lose my explosiveness and makes me feel sluggish.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Amused
It is very simple, if you're lifting right and not gaining, you're not eating enough. If you're eating enough and gaining fat, but not muscle, you're not lifting right. If you're eating enough and not gaining muscle or fat, you're over training

I have a question for you:

Where does protein intake come into play? I've heard that people need xxx grams of protein and I've seen people eat tons of protein per day. I did that for a while but I honestly didn't see much gain from it. I stopped taking protein supplements and I don't notice any drawback. I don't think I need as much protein as some people say you need.

Also, another thing I noticed is that if you're just going for bulk, then doing what you say will definitely make you bigger, but if you go to play sports you'll be bulky and out of shape since you'll have no endurance. I had to start running a lot to get more endurance, but then the running burns some muscle away. The best balance I found was doing sprints. Distance running makes me lose my explosiveness and makes me feel sluggish.

You train for what you need. If you need long distance endurance, bulking up isn't what you need. If you need strength and size, bulking up is what you need.

Ever wonder why marathon runners and bike racers are so skinny?

At any rate, you can have some level of endurance even when you bulk up. Cardio is a good idea no matter what your goals are. The key is what works for you. If you have a hard time bulking, slowly limit the intensity, frequency and duration of your cardio until you start to see gains in bulk. If your endurance is suffering, add to those things.

As for protein, if you get enough through foods, the extra from powder is useless. If, on the other hand you're a hard gainer and have a hard time getting enough protein and calories through food alone, the powder is a good idea.

 

[slimrhcp]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: TerranForces
I have just started doing weighted pullups and dips. I hold a 25lb DB in between my knees and do about 5-7 reps. Any suggestions on how to hold it. Do I have to buy a Dip belt? BTW, a study on Bodybuilding.com showed that Squats, Dead lifts, and Bench Press actually produced a lot of testosterone. I work one of them into each of my workouts. I usually do dead lifts on back/bi day. That means that squats could give you bigger arms theoretically. You need a good all around physique first. The only isolation exercises I do are the occasional barbell curl or calf raise.

Working 'big muscle groups' will help your body to increase testerone production. BP not so much but definately the squat and the DL or OL if you do that. I've been telling people this for years.

Koing

You're exactly right. Studies have established that lower body exercises such as you listed are a catalyst for overall muscle growth.

 

[slimrhcp]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Amused
It is very simple, if you're lifting right and not gaining, you're not eating enough. If you're eating enough and gaining fat, but not muscle, you're not lifting right. If you're eating enough and not gaining muscle or fat, you're over training

I have a question for you:

Where does protein intake come into play? I've heard that people need xxx grams of protein and I've seen people eat tons of protein per day. I did that for a while but I honestly didn't see much gain from it. I stopped taking protein supplements and I don't notice any drawback. I don't think I need as much protein as some people say you need.

Also, another thing I noticed is that if you're just going for bulk, then doing what you say will definitely make you bigger, but if you go to play sports you'll be bulky and out of shape since you'll have no endurance. I had to start running a lot to get more endurance, but then the running burns some muscle away. The best balance I found was doing sprints. Distance running makes me lose my explosiveness and makes me feel sluggish.

You train for what you need. If you need long distance endurance, bulking up isn't what you need. If you need strength and size, bulking up is what you need.

Ever wonder why marathon runners and bike racers are so skinny?

At any rate, you can have some level of endurance even when you bulk up. Cardio is a good idea no matter what your goals are. The key is what works for you. If you have a hard time bulking, slowly limit the intensity, frequency and duration of your cardio until you start to see gains in bulk. If your endurance is suffering, add to those things.

As for protein, if you get enough through foods, the extra from powder is useless. If, on the other hand you're a hard gainer and have a hard time getting enough protein and calories through food alone, the powder is a good idea.

You're partially right. Protein intake should occur over the course of a day, not all at once. So granted the body can't absorb 75grams of protein at once, but servings of about 30grams a few times a day is ideal.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: johnnqq
i can't believe nobody mentioned running. running is just as important as strengthening other muscles.

Actually, it is and it isn't. It all depends on what your goal is.

If you're looking to be gain muscle and mass...then I actually would not suggest running, or any cardio, for that matter. While cardio gets you "in shape" it also burns calories, calories that you need to replenish to gain weight...you can gain muscle without gaining weight. Hard gainers have a difficult enough time putting on muscle as it is; doing cardio is only going to make the process tougher.

If you do something like a MAX-OT cardio session (17 minutes of hills all out on the bike) and supplement well prior to the workout, you shouldn't be tapping into any muscle as fuel. Only problem I've found with the short burst cardio is that it gives me a really bad headache from the blood pumping so hard in such a short amount of time. It usually doesn't go away for about an hour after the workout.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
Personally, I would get rid of the fish oil stuff and take add flax seeds into your diet. You can find flax seeds in your local grocery store so thats one less trip to the drugstore/nutrition store and flax seeds are a lot cheaper in the long run. Personally, I like to incorporate things into my diet rather than chug down pills.

There is no conclusive study that has shown ALA's to be beneficial to our health. In fact, studies have shown (good and bad) fatty levels of the body actually INCREASED when taking flax seed oil. Scientists theorize that ALA's add a buffer to heart pathways but really haven't proven it yet (however, ALA's will reduce risk of heart disease and heart disorders).

Your best bet is EPA's because they are proven to reduce fat and cholesterol levels, or get one that has both ALA AND EPA's.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

One MAJOR thing you forgot to mention for building muscle is the Bracketing Method. It's the single most powerful muscle building tool you can integrate into your nutrition.

You just linked to the site of a guy selling a product. Not exactly unbiased information there.

The whole site sells a line of proven and well regarded supplements in the powerlifting community, what's your point? Do you think these sites that have to pay their scientists and bodybuilders do it for free? Please, they're not telling you to buy anything. If you're smart enough, you can cut through the marketing BS and get something out of it. For example, any high GI food is going to spike your insulin, you don't have to take their product.

Bracketing is the most powerful method for getting nutrition to the body after a workout, anyone who's been lifting for years (15 here) can tell you. It's not a big secret.

 

[TerranForces]

Lol, I am sorry SP33Demon, but that AST site is garbage. 95% of their info is just plain wrong. They are trying so hard to push their products. They even go as far as to say that their creatine brand is 480% more effective than others because it has a little bit of sugar.

It reminds me of when I first saw a ZMA test. It was real professional and scientific while showing amazing results. Then at the end, there was a little marketing slip saying that their product was the best. What a scam that was.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: johnnqq
i can't believe nobody mentioned running. running is just as important as strengthening other muscles.

Actually, it is and it isn't. It all depends on what your goal is.

If you're looking to be gain muscle and mass...then I actually would not suggest running, or any cardio, for that matter. While cardio gets you "in shape" it also burns calories, calories that you need to replenish to gain weight...you can gain muscle without gaining weight. Hard gainers have a difficult enough time putting on muscle as it is; doing cardio is only going to make the process tougher.

If you do something like a MAX-OT cardio session (17 minutes of hills all out on the bike) and supplement well prior to the workout, you shouldn't be tapping into any muscle as fuel. Only problem I've found with the short burst cardio is that it gives me a really bad headache from the blood pumping so hard in such a short amount of time. It usually doesn't go away for about an hour after the workout.

I could see that happening...

Personally, I'll do cardio two-three times a week just to keep in my "heart-healthy"...I'll just throw in another meal to make up for it.

 

[oddyager]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: Koing
I'll probably guess you can't do a one arm pull up Whipser . I heard it was only 1 in 10'000 people that could do a strict one arm pull up.

I just hold the DB between my thighs. It feels fine to me. You can get a belt if you want but the DBs are comfortable for me. Maybe if the handles were short or something else it would be a pain?

Deadlift isn't part of OLifting . Snatch and C&J and the other part exercises are. DL is part of PowerLifting (BP, Squat, DL)

Koing

Point taken.

I just hear way too many excuses for why people don't do deads...or even squats for that matter...

Can you say...PUSSIES?!?!? haha...

Probably because a percentage of those people are disillusioned with big bulging biceps. I say, pshaw.

I'll admit leg workouts are the least favorite of my mine but a full body workout is a full body workout.

 

[Schwan]

tag

 

[Accipiter22]

wow...i'm shocked that was actually a good post....personally I think supp's are a waste of money, my supplements are tuna (contains creatine), chicken, and beef...but hey to each their own...not a bad guide.


don't waste time on isolation movements....remember DB's are just as good if not better than BB for a lot of exercises...good post buddy

 

[Accipiter22]

p.s. don't expect to keep up the great results that fast, when you first start you can basically grow just from looking at weights.....keep pushin

 

[TerranForces]

I just had another workout today. I increased my lifts a lot in each workout. Definately the most noticable improvement. My bench was up 10lbs, BB Curl 5lbs, Dips 2 reps, Pullups 1 rep, Deadlift 20lbs. I am impressed. Of course the gains are going to slow down though. I am not looking to get competition big or anything. When I plateau next, I might try a 5x5 routine. My friend had great results on that.

I ran out of glycerol mono last week. My muscles look about the same size except for some of the vascularity. I am down to 156 lbs now, but my strength is better than ever. I'd estimate around 7% BF. I obviously lost a lot of the water weight I had. I am very happy with my gains. I definately have at least 20lbs more lean body mass.

I'll get some pics up soon. My st goal is to get to 165lbs 8% BF. I am hoping to get it done by around Thanksgiving.