Ultra V-series 500W PSU $40.00 w/$40.00 rebate $ free ship

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mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: ZapHere comes the resident Ultra V hater with a vendetta on shitting on every Ultra V hot deal. Guaranteed he can brain people like me and you to death in the subject of PSUs.

There are worse generic PSU, like Deer, Achieve, Codegen, Raidmax, Powmax, Turbolink, etc.- practically all the generic 500W that came free-with-case or are about $20 and under @ regular 'net pricing (no rebate). However, none of the aforementioned units are as poorly manufactured, none have all this flux everywhere and components, wires not even fully inserted into the PCB which it itself is a potential safety hazard.

My best advice is to NOT hook one of these up to anything valuable before first hooking it up to some worthless load (like an old hard drive) and turning it on, letting it run awhile to be sure it doesn't pop or have other deviant voltage problem. When component leads are so far extended, even a basic pass/fail test at a factory may not catch a shifting of parts after jostled about in shipping and handling, not to mention the solder itself might be questionable so soon after the industry has gone RoHS.

It's still amazing how cheaply they must've made these though, if that was their goal then they have succeeded admirably in highest capacity per $, AR, though I'd suspect they have a higher infant mortality rate too and highest capacity per dollar isn't my primary criteria for something plugged into AC and powering hundreds of dollars worth of parts, thus the recommendation to at least try it before plugging into something more valuable.
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
We need someone here to sucrifice his Free Ultra PSU warranty, pop it open and post pictures of "flux everywhere".
Short of that I refuse to believe that these PSU's are as bad as you paint them.
 

madeupfacts

Senior member
Apr 29, 2006
692
0
0
Originally posted by: vadp
We need someone here to sucrifice his Free Ultra PSU warranty, pop it open and post pictures of "flux everywhere".
Without that I refuse to believe that these PSU's are as bad as you paint them.

i am iwlling to do this, but do not have a camera
 

madeupfacts

Senior member
Apr 29, 2006
692
0
0
zOMG! I open it and there is blood everywhere! Fingers, bones, intestines, lost childrens. This power supply is stuff iwth evil!
 

rcllbrg

Member
Feb 3, 2006
105
0
0
I'd get one as a backup but I already have some old Enermax 400W for that. If these are really so badly made I wouldn't risk basing a rig of any value off them.

I've had atleast 5 WD 800BB drives die on me because(according to WD customer service)they were hooked up to a bad PSU, I was running them off an Antec 450W which was fairly decent, so I suspect a bad batch of drives from WD, but whatever... they reviewed my call and emailed me like a month later with big customer loyalty discounts.

For drives I still prefer Seagate, 5 year warranty shows they are confident in their product... but these days WD Raid Edition and some of their Special Edition drives have 5years also
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: vadp
We need someone here to sucrifice his Free Ultra PSU warranty, pop it open and post pictures of "flux everywhere".
Short of that I refuse to believe that these PSU's are as bad as you paint them.

Is it my problem that you refuse to believe something? I don't think so!

I have examined a few Wintech made Ultras, they are notibly worse than most. picture showing leads, wires, jumpers, caps, not even close to fully inserted. Edit: On this particular picture the leads are better than some, and the 2-1 splices are hidden behind a mass of silvery wire. It's only one angle though. Caps WAY off the board and bent around funny, flux easily seen even on the top of the board where there was nothing to solder. Heatsinks not even flush with board, and crooked. Even the holes drilled in the PCB are so close to the edge that some of them rip out the side, which would normally cause a complete reroute of the subcircuit if not a larger PCB. I can't tell if that picture ripped out the side but look at the small cap to the left of the controller chip (yellow cap under blue wires going to the power switch), it's silkscreen extends past the edge of the board and on two of them I had, so did the drilled hole because it was too close and too cheap a board material (and really large holes for non-plated).

Same issues with other Ultras including the V-Series 400W, they're using same PCB, same factory, same assembly process for (these Wintech made models).

While the Ultras have some parts upgrades over many of the generic PSU, in general the construction (manufacturing and assembly) quality is lower than most generic PSU.

Did you think lots of people were taking pay cuts so you can have a free PSU? Apparently so, if you can't accept they have to make significant compromises one way or another (or many ways) to hit this price point of FAR. If it were only a rare deal, we might think otherwise but it's not- Outpost and Radio Shack (surely other places too that I haven't kept track of) have both had regularly recurring deals on these Ultra/Wintech units, it's just an odd thing to still see the ones with the modular connectors priced at closer to $100, knowing there's only $5 worth of parts difference (actually less, manufacturing in volume).

With a little luck, none of these quality issues will be a problem. That still doesn't console anyone who does have a problem. It's your choice what to buy, but ideally it will be an informed choice and you can minimize the risks. If it runs at all it's still a good deal at FAR so long as you realize the issues.

 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: dBTelos
Originally posted by: vadp
We need someone here to sucrifice his Free Ultra PSU warranty, pop it open and post pictures of "flux everywhere".
Short of that I refuse to believe that these PSU's are as bad as you paint them.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/V-Series/V-Series.html


As already mentioned, he doesn't test long enough to find faults, the ones he tested use some different parts, and with a sample size of 1 the problem rate can't be established. I only hope they didn't cherry-pick units as a deliberate deception, though you don't get close-up shots that would reveal the kinds of issues I've pointed out, only good enough to tell they are using the same poorly laid out PCB that puts parts too close to the edges.

As many of us know, using worse caps can directly result in failure over time. That his reviewed units have even this one difference is quite significant, and better caps will change the ripple readings too.

I find JonnyGuru's information useful though, any info is good when seen in context, as a portion of all the data available.
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: vadp
We need someone here to sucrifice his Free Ultra PSU warranty, pop it open and post pictures of "flux everywhere".
Short of that I refuse to believe that these PSU's are as bad as you paint them.

Is it my problem that you refuse to believe something? I don't think so!

While the Ultras have some parts upgrades over many of the generic PSU, in general the construction (manufacturing and assembly) quality is lower than most generic PSU.

Did you think lots of people were taking pay cuts so you can have a free PSU? Apparently so, if you can't accept they have to make significant compromises one way or another (or many ways) to hit this price point of FAR. If it were only a rare deal, we might think otherwise but it's not- Outpost and Radio Shack (surely other places too that I haven't kept track of) have both had regularly recurring deals on these Ultra/Wintech units, it's just an odd thing to still see the ones with the modular connectors priced at closer to $100, knowing there's only $5 worth of parts difference (actually less, manufacturing in volume).
Ultra has constant MIR deals not just on its PSU's.
I just got an Ultra memory stick with a fat $40 MIR.
Guess what. It works just fine!
As good as other, more established brands, which sell a comparable product for twice as much.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
vadp, surely you can see the difference between memory and psu.

- Memory is solid state and not subject to different (power output level) loads.

- Memory has no shorter lived components and if the PCB was crap, it wouldn't be stable.

- Different manufacturers made it, remember that ultra does not make these parts, they merely spec cosmetic things and slap their label on. The actual manufacturer has everything to do with the inherant quality.

Memory and PSU is clearly applesranges
 

StormSide

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,203
47
91
Mindless1 why do you continue to crap in this thread? Maybe you need to reread the forum rules.
If you don't like the deal move along.

There are other reviews saying the 500w sustained high load (~435) for quite a while without
going up in smoke. Maybe you need to google down a few more pages.

 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: StormSide
Mindless1 why do you continue to crap in this thread?

Facts about a product are applicable. If you don't LIKE facts, that's your problem. Were we supposed to pretend all products have no downsides, making it impossible for each person to assess them?

Maybe you need to reread the forum rules.
If you don't like the deal move along.

I consider what you are doing to be trolling.

I have not randomly claimed "it's crap", I've attempted to directly address real provable issues. This is science, and bears directly on the fitness of the product and informs the potential customer. What could possibly be more useful when deciding on a product?

Just like a webpage review, others who know quite a bit about PSU have information to add, but don't spend their time writing webpages- not everyone wants to be a website reviewer. Many will read reviews without enough background in a field and reach conclusions without all the evidence. I merely supplied some, and further, have written it is a good deal.

There are other reviews saying the 500w sustained high load (~435) for quite a while without
going up in smoke. Maybe you need to google down a few more pages.

Is a test where one sample of a psu runs for a short time, all there is to know about it? Certainly not, MOST of us who have had any PSU fail over the years can recognize that it's quite possible a reviewer somewhere didn't find the fault that killed it.

Do you understand why a PSU that does (pass your vaguely described test) might still be fradulently rated? Note that I am not claiming this PSU is fraudently rated, I'm making a point about the short testing as related to any PSU's MTBF rating, because the specs are all applicable. Anyway, it's a 500W PSU, rated for a MTBF that is a wee bit longer than the few hours or days at most a typical reviewer tests. It is further presumed one buys a PSU to use it far longer. You don't appear to realize the significance of what I wrote, that a very short test is not indicative of long term fitness of a PSU, and product quality is a concern with a PSU, not just some other kind of consumer good(s). With any product, it is useful to know how it compares. Remember that it is not just an issue of whether a free PSU works or is trashed, some people have a bit of value in their system hardware, data, or system uptime.

Have you bothered to search for the other points I've made about Ultra PSU? There are more issues of concern, but I tried to keep it short and sweet until inaccurate things were being implied.

Why isn't ALL accurate information about a product, a good thing in your mind? Do you have an ulterior motive?

WHY do you resist truth?
 

DaFOBulous1

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
4,065
0
71
I don't mind Mindless1's analysis actually. I think BASICALLY what he is trying to say is that this is a cheap PSU...and if you have a cheap system...sure but for parts that are very valuable, invest somewhere else.
 

AAjax

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2001
3,798
0
0
Originally posted by: StormSide
Mindless1 why do you continue to crap in this thread? Maybe you need to reread the forum rules.
If you don't like the deal move along.


QFT!
 

doctorbear

Senior member
Oct 24, 2001
287
0
86

Usually a no-name or low-end brand PSU can do only 50%-65% on efficiency.

70% is pretty good.

70%-75% is excellent, Enermax can do that range.

Around 78%-80% is extremely excellent, only a couple of highest-end brand
like seasonic can do that.


Originally posted by: dBTelos
70% efficency though... so it loses alot of its power as heat instead of giving it to your components.

70% efficency is considered fairly normal. If your PSU averages 70% efficiency, I wouldn't be compaining.

 

imported_nunya

Senior member
Jul 15, 2005
612
0
0
Personally I'm glad to have someone like mindless1 posting. We all know that there are great differences in PSUs, but I never felt like I really knew what made one better than another, other than the catch-all "has better parts." I think it's nice having someone in-the-know do some explaining. A quick look at General Hardware will show how many people come to these forums knowing almost nothing about computers, maybe mindless1 saves some poor fool from tossing this into his SLI'd C2D and tossing 1k+ down the drain.

I doubt anyone here has a vested interest in selling these things but if you do I'm sure you'll keep calling 'thread crap.' If not, thank you, drive through.
 

bryanl

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2006
1,157
8
81
Thank you, 42z3e67pt3l, for this deal. I placed my order only a few minutes ago.

Mindless1: I also noticed some cables spliced into a single wire. This looks improper, but does it really matter, considering that each single wire is only an inch long? I did see flux all over inside some of the Ultras, and oddly the solder side was more likely to be clean than the component side. And in some power supplies the flux was even on top of the transformers (it was definitely not transformer varnish). The circuit board seemed to be of the same material and thickness as those in quality supplies, but I didn't examine the thickness of the copper (couldn't).

Fan quality seems to be a problem, according to user reports, and one of my Ultra V-series had a fan that would not start reliably.

You mentioned an Ultra with a +12V output rated for 20A that was connected to a STPR1620 dual diode rated for just 16A. The datasheet for this component gives 2 current ratings: 20A RMS and 16A average (delta = 0.5, temp = 120C). Which is more relevant here?

I'm plan to use this 500W Ultra to replace an unusually light 350W one included in a very cheap case. It will power a computer that has never drawn more than 280W from the AC outlet.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: bryanlMindless1: I also noticed some cables spliced into a single wire. This looks improper, but does it really matter, considering that each single wire is only an inch long?
Not necessarily, but considering the overall construciton quality, it would be expected this spliced connection is no better, the connections themselves are more likely a potential problem, one that shouldn't have existed.

I did see flux all over inside some of the Ultras, and oddly the solder side was more likely to be clean than the component side. And in some power supplies the flux was even on top of the transformers (it was definitely not transformer varnish). The circuit board seemed to be of the same material and thickness as those in quality supplies, but I didn't examine the thickness of the copper (couldn't).

Fiberboard (paper based, FR2 or ??) can be different density while same thickness, even if it is too much to expect FR4 or similar fiberglass you would (hopefully) insist on in a > $140 supply. You can see their workaround for the thin copper by noting where they added jumpers on top and massive amounts of solder flooded on the top to merely aid conduction- no parts account for this beefing up of the traces.

Fan quality seems to be a problem, according to user reports, and one of my Ultra V-series had a fan that would not start reliably.
The fans started on the ones I had out, though I did note one's fan leads looked like they could've gotten into the blade area and kept it from spinning. My more significant gripe with these sleeve bearing fans is they loose lubricant within the life of the PSU, especially horizontally mounted.

You mentioned an Ultra with a +12V output rated for 20A that was connected to a STPR1620 dual diode rated for just 16A. The datasheet for this component gives 2 current ratings: 20A RMS and 16A average (delta = 0.5, temp = 120C). Which is more relevant here?
16A, further derated for temp (made worse by TO220 size package, ~silpad, and thin heatsink) but actually it may not apply to this PSU, I don't recall if the 500W has same diodes in same position or not. I would hope not but the way they're rating for peak output is still a concern, reveals some of their methodology for the rating system in general. Another factor for a good ~ 500W PSU is you'd expect a TO247 sized part for the most loaded rail, as it not only handles more current by virtue of the larger die inside, but the larger heatsink tab speads that heat better. Plus it wasn't a Schottky, but again I don't recall on the 500W.

I'm plan to use this 500W Ultra to replace an unusually light 350W one included in a very cheap case. It will power a computer that has never drawn more than 280W from the AC outlet.

That doesn't tell us what the current is per rail, but a crude guesstimation could look like 70% efficiency, 196W out, you might have 15A or so peaks on 12V rail? Too many variables to know this, I'm just throwing around some numbers and peak may not matter as much as durations- any system can peak high but some systems have a fairly high sustained load for gaming, etc. Sustained load will determine how much loss there is in total, the amount of derating necessary from heat- so as always keeping it cool(er) through good chassis airflow will help.

I think it'll run that system for at least awhile, if there aren't any overt defects but it's not what I'd choose either, unless you're just overclocking the heck out of a Prescott to get a little more life out of it. It's quite likely better capacity than the came-with-case 350W PSU (a brand you didn't mention), but there's the remaining variable of whether the construction issues end up causing any problems.
 

rcllbrg

Member
Feb 3, 2006
105
0
0
Originally posted by: doctorbear

Usually a no-name or low-end brand PSU can do only 50%-65% on efficiency.

70% is pretty good.

70%-75% is excellent, Enermax can do that range.

Around 78%-80% is extremely excellent, only a couple of highest-end brand
like seasonic can do that.


Originally posted by: dBTelos
70% efficency though... so it loses alot of its power as heat instead of giving it to your components.

70% efficency is considered fairly normal. If your PSU averages 70% efficiency, I wouldn't be compaining.
Yea Seasonics have very high quality components, they waste very little power. Also these are all the eff numbers that the companies are claiming, I wouldn't be surprised if this apparently low quality PSU which claims 70% eff is much less efficient in reality.
 

foofoo

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2001
1,344
0
0
mindless1 -
i think that you are being needlessly pessimistic. in my experience, lower quality assembly shows up as a higher than average mortality rate in the first month or so, usually sooner. if your point is that this is not the best power supply that money can buy for essentinally free, then i agree. in my opinion, however, it will run the vast majority of systems without any problems. for those that are concerned, i have 3 of these running well in rigs that range from c2d 6600/7900gt/raptor150/seagate320/more to a simple a64-3500/x850xt/seagate200 system. rails are steady and the system is quite. my ir thermometer shows the power supply to be running cool. this is a good deal.
 

audscott

Senior member
Jul 27, 2000
859
0
0
Originally posted by: foofoo
mindless1 -
i think that you are being needlessly pessimistic. in my experience, lower quality assembly shows up as a higher than average mortality rate in the first month or so, usually sooner. if your point is that this is not the best power supply that money can buy for essentinally free, then i agree. in my opinion, however, it will run the vast majority of systems without any problems. for those that are concerned, i have 3 of these running well in rigs that range from c2d 6600/7900gt/raptor150/seagate320/more to a simple a64-3500/x850xt/seagate200 system. rails are steady and the system is quite. my ir thermometer shows the power supply to be running cool. this is a good deal.


Pessimism: an inclination to emphasize adverse aspects, conditions, and possibilities or to expect the worst possible outcome
2 a : the doctrine that reality is essentially evil b : the doctrine that evil overbalances happiness in life.

I've been building the trouble shooting computers about 10 years: The two cmomponents that have been the most troublesome in my real life experience are: Memory and PSU's. memory from a performance standpoint, which,by and large, has been corrected by increasing chip speeds and better quality control in an increasingly demanding enthusiast market. Power supplies remain the primary, most common area of problems in computer building: Well, othe rthan the loose nut behind the screw.

Look at all the inferior quality power supplies which cannot sustain the power requirements of the enthusiast. Within the realm of failures are poor design and low quality componments including diodes, capacitors and transformers. Heat is the enemy of clean/sustainable power. Out of spec or not, an overheated PSU will fail - perhaps in supplying clean power, perhaps a complete failure - the later being potentially devistating to the system and components. Cheap PSU's have cheap/light and inadequate heatsinks.

The Ultra series have not been among the most reliable of power supplies: in fact, in the Ultra forum, the power supply sub-forum has the greates number of threads and posts.


Further, A poorly built ATX power supply (AT or BX for that matter) may spike at point of failure, taking components, the motherboard and or CPU with it. ATX power supply failure

Pessimism in this discussion equates to savvy. Just because you have several Ultra's, and I have bunches of Maxtor drives that have never failed, doesn't quite support either of our personal experiences for the bulk of uninitiated in making a final purchase decision.
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
Originally posted by: audscott

The Ultra series have not been among the most reliable of power supplies: in fact, in the Ultra forum, the power supply sub-forum has the greates number of threads and posts.

This is a CHEAP power supply that will be totally adequate for the vast majority of users.
The enthusiasts with their loaded/overclocked rigs will not buy this PSU.
 
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