Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Tom]

This also dispels all the claims that GZ had the gun out and the two were wrestling for control of the gun. GZ stated he felt that TM reached for the gun not that TM grabbed the gun.

How does it dispell Zimmerman could have had the gun out ?

And where's the Martin as "thug" evidence ?

 

[airdata]

How does it dispell Zimmerman could have had the gun out ?

And where's the Martin as "thug" evidence ?

pro zimmerman people have repeated THE FACT ( in their minds ) that there was a struggle for the gun.

If this was the case or Trayvon knew he had it and tried to grab it, they'd know.

But this evidence says Trayvon didn't touch the weapon. This would suggest and back up my previous assertion's that Zimmerman simply pulled his gun and shot him without warning. Had Trayvon known the gun was there, surely he'd have gone for it A or B would have gotten up and stopped anything else he was doing.

 

[spidey07]

You are not to give warnings to people you are to shoot in self defense. You are not required to and it can get you in legal trouble if you do.

All evidence still actually proves self defense with no evidence to the contrary.

 

[airdata]

You are not to give warnings to people you are to shoot in self defense. You are not required to and it can get you in legal trouble if you do.

All evidence still actually proves self defense with no evidence to the contrary.

Do you know how stupid it sounds to suggest that warning of a gun shot is worse than taking a life? That's fucking retarded. Go home troll.

 

[airdata]

"WHOA, This guy pulled a gun on me!!!"
"WHOA, This guy murdered me!!!"

leave no witnessses, amiright?

 

[Druidx]

Do you know how stupid it sounds to suggest that warning of a gun shot is worse than taking a life? That's fucking retarded. Go home troll.

Do you know how stupid it sounds listening to you still argue a point when your willful ignorance of gun laws has been pointed out dozens of times.

 

[Druidx]

I bet hannity or rush also say Jesus told him to kill Trayvon.

Then they would be wrong, according to Trayvons Mom, it was God who chose Trayvon.

"At first, I kept on asking why me, why Trayvon. But now I know that God has called Trayvon. He was chosen. His name is now known throughout the country and throughout the world. He is a symbol of the fight against injustice. People understand that there has to be fairness and righteousness. And they're learning it from Trayvon."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin_b_1409832.html

 

[airdata]

Do you know how stupid it sounds listening to you still argue a point when your willful ignorance of gun laws has been pointed out dozens of times.

Let it be known I argue with reason. Meaning that when you people throw common sense to the wind like zimmerman you're simply unreasonable.


Notice the reaction to the evidence released that Trayvon didn't handle the gun. Pro Zimmerman people simply want to change the subject or spew the same hate speech they've been spewing the last 6 months.

 

[airdata]

Then they would be wrong, according to Trayvons Mom, it was God who chose Trayvon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin_b_1409832.html

So we're both on the same page as far as religious zealotry having no place in the case.

Or are you too dumb to see that yourself?

 

[lotus503]

Do you know how stupid it sounds to suggest that warning of a gun shot is worse than taking a life? That's fucking retarded. Go home troll.

as shitty as it sounds and as much as it pains me to cooberate what spidey says in this regard. Its true you only pull the gun to fire it, thats what anyone in a gun safety class is taught.

 

[Druidx]

So we're both on the same page as far as religious zealotry having no place in the case.

Or are you too dumb to see that yourself?

Apparently you thought it did, since you're the one who brought it up.

 

[airdata]

Here's how it works.

Facts released. Pro Trayvon people... ahhha... Told you so! Pro Zimmerman people.. nah, let's change the subject!!!

 

[classy]

Zimmerman's whole story is full of holes.

In his first interview the police asked Zimmerman why it took so long for him to return to his vehicle if he wasn't following Trayvon. He said that he was trying ot get his flashlight working because he didn't want to walk back through in the dark. The lady officer says to him, but you had just walked through that area without a flashlight. So it was clearly dark and even the witnesses all of them have stated because so it was dark it was tough to see clearly.

Zimmerman goes on to state that he shot Trayvon only after he started to reach for his gun. From that statement it can be assumed he did not fear for his life till that moment. But given all the circumstances, how could Trayvon have possibly seen the weapon at all? It was behind him, he had on a large coat, and it was dark. It would be almost impossible for him to see it and it begs the question how could he have felt the weapon as well? So now we see the kid never touched the gun. Why is that significant? Because if he was reaching for it, no way he doesn't try to wrestle it away from Zimmerman. So his dna should have been on that weapon.

 

[Geosurface]

Some thoughts on this gun issue:

• First of all, I distinctly remember hearing this same test result months ago. So, how is this new news?
• Some have conjectured that if the slide lock or whatever was jammed, this would be a very strong indication that Trayvon had had his hands on the barrel area. I don't know. Keep in mind they seemed to only be able to reach certainty about the grip area not having Trayvon DNA on it. Which actually is the last place you'd expect it to be if he touched it at all.
• airdata said that we've been touting the idea that there was a struggle for the gun? No, we sure haven't. There was a point some months ago when GZ supporters were saying there was probably a struggle for the gun, because the best version of GZ's own account that had trickled to us at that time, from other sources, indicated that. Later, when we got his recollections (such as they are) straight from the horse's mouth, and he did not seem to indicate that Trayvon had ever actually TOUCHED the gun, just that he'd felt that he noticed it and was going for it... we adjusted accordingly and for some time now it has been primarily TM supporters who talk on and on about a struggle for the gun, and how the gun was out the entire time... that GZ had it drawn from the point he got off the phone with dispatch, or some such bullshit. So as I think, Londo pointed out, this works much more against TM supporters given their bullshit lately.

Remember, GZ himself doesn't really claim a STRUGGLE for the gun, according to his account the most you can infer is that TM's hand may have briefly touched the gun or the holster. So, any test coming out now (but again I think this is old info) saying that there was no struggle for the gun, hurts pro-TM people much more than GZ people, at least with regard to how the discussion has been framed for quite some time now.


Remember, there needn't be any struggle for the gun to justify shooting in self defense. GZ is already legally in the clear for self-defense based on the injuries he had, the injuries TM *didn't* have, the fact that he was screaming, and a witness saw him pinned down and attempting to get up. Case fucking closed. You remove ignorance of the law, ignorance of the case evidence, and racial stupidity, and this case evaporates in a nanosecond. There is no LEGAL or EVIDENTIAL basis for GZ to be in the situation he is in currently. There just isn't.


In fact, given that GZ had a head 45% covered in blood, was pinned down by Trayvon and being actively assaulted by Trayvon, as he screamed for help which did not come for about a minute... I find it nothing short of mind-boggling that ANYONE would question whether this was clear cut self-defense.


There should've been no such thing as a pro-TM person since the day the injury photos came out.

 

[TerryMathews]

as shitty as it sounds and as much as it pains me to cooberate what spidey says in this regard. Its true you only pull the gun to fire it, thats what anyone in a gun safety class is taught.

Thank you. Those that advocate "warning" are in fact advocating committing a felony.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How does it dispell Zimmerman could have had the gun out ?

And where's the Martin as "thug" evidence ?

If the weapon was out/visible, you would think Martin would have gone after it instead of climbing on top of Zimmerman. The report does not indicate any grass or mud on the weapon. So it would be in Zimmerman's hand or holster at all times. You think that Martin seeing the weapon would have allowed it to be put away without going after it?

 

[TerryMathews]

No problem, all tweets TM did that night he was killed should be allowed. :biggrin:

So now we're haggling over the timeframe, amirite?

 

[soundforbjt]

So now we're haggling over the timeframe, amirite?

You're the one that posted the article not me. :biggrin:

 

[TerryMathews]

You're the one that posted the article not me. :biggrin:

Only because you said social media posts can't be proof. :biggrin:

 

[Fern]

Seems to me entirely possible that Trayvon felt the gun through Z's jacket/clothing while they struggled on the ground and grabbed at it. The fabric would prevent any prints/DNA etc. Just a theory.

But I'm wondering if "inconclusive" means there was someone else's DNA on that holster, but there isn't enough material (or it's mixed) to confirm whose.

Fern

 

[Tom]

If the weapon was out/visible, you would think Martin would have gone after it instead of climbing on top of Zimmerman. The report does not indicate any grass or mud on the weapon. So it would be in Zimmerman's hand or holster at all times. You think that Martin seeing the weapon would have allowed it to be put away without going after it?

I have no idea where the gun was.

Somebody said that Zimmerman's prints on the gun "dispelled" the possibility the gun was out, I asked why ?

I haven't heard any evidence of grass or mud on Zimmerman either, just moisture.

How does that affect your thoughts about the gun and what's possible ?

 

[Geosurface]

In his first interview the police asked Zimmerman why it took so long for him to return to his vehicle if he wasn't following Trayvon. He said that he was trying ot get his flashlight working because he didn't want to walk back through in the dark. The lady officer says to him, but you had just walked through that area without a flashlight. So it was clearly dark and even the witnesses all of them have stated because so it was dark it was tough to see clearly.

The detective also acknowledges that he himself had just tried the same flashlight, and yes it did require some smacks to get working. Remember, GZ lived in that neighborhood, he had every right to take his sweet ass time or meander around, or just sort of wait for the call from the cops in that area while he looked around, etc etc. It also was getting darker rapidly at that point, and he says the headlights from his truck were still shining down that way when he first got out and headed that way. Who knows? Who cares?

Zimmerman goes on to state that he shot Trayvon only after he started to reach for his gun. From that statement it can be assumed he did not fear for his life till that moment.

Wrong. How does this follow? He says he wasn't really thinking about the gun until he thought Trayvon saw it, and if you've got someone on top of you beating you and holding you down as you scream, I think it's safe to say you fear for your life the whole time. It's a primal thing though it's not like you're laying there analyzing your stream of consciousness... "hmm I wonder what exact moment I'll start to fear for my life... nope, not yet... wait there it is!" you're in a different mode mentally... the lizard brain is taking over there, largely.

But given all the circumstances, how could Trayvon have possibly seen the weapon at all? It was behind him, he had on a large coat, and it was dark. It would be almost impossible for him to see it and it begs the question how could he have felt the weapon as well? So now we see the kid never touched the gun. Why is that significant? Because if he was reaching for it, no way he doesn't try to wrestle it away from Zimmerman. So his dna should have been on that weapon.

Yawn, yadda yadda yadda what does any of this add up to? First off they were moving around a lot and who knows whether Trayvon could've seen it at some point or felt it in some way. Who knows. Even if Trayvon was never aware, at all, of the gun, this actually works against your case. You TM supporters have hung your hat on the idea that Trayvon was entitled to attack GZ BECAUSE he saw the gun, because GZ supposedly had it out. Now you want to focus more on the idea that TM never knew about the gun? Newsflash: if he never knew about the gun, that doesn't take away GZ's right to self-defense.

There is no legal requirement to offer a warning with your gun at that point... and as others have said that can actually put you in legal trouble.

So again, TM supporters have retreated to the "well I'm sure GZ had the gun out and therefore Trayvon had every right to attack him! Or at least GZ clearly reached for the gun not his phone, and TM knew he had it, so anyone would fight against someone who had STALKED THEM WIT A GUN!"

so now you look at evidence that shows TM probably never knew about the gun, and without skipping a beat, you act like this supports your shit too?

At the end of the day, GZ had the injuries, the head covered in blood, he screamed in obvious terror for a full minute, nothing you or any other TM supporter has ever tried to pull out of your ass budges this one INCH away from obvious self-defense.

 

[soundforbjt]

His head was not 45% covered in blood, please post any picture that supports the EMT claim.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

How does it dispell Zimmerman could have had the gun out ?

Had their been a struggle for the gun like some claim it should have had TM's DNA on it. The fact there's no DNA evidence to tie TM to the gun the chances are very high it was in the holster as GZ has stated and only pulled when he felt that TM was aware of the gun/tried to reach for it.

And where's the Martin as "thug" evidence ?

Please search in this thread and find where I've ever referred to TM as a thug or said that any evidence would prove he was a thug.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If the weapon was out/visible, you would think Martin would have gone after it instead of climbing on top of Zimmerman. The report does not indicate any grass or mud on the weapon. So it would be in Zimmerman's hand or holster at all times. You think that Martin seeing the weapon would have allowed it to be put away without going after it?

I seriously doubt that TM would have tried to fight GZ if he knew there was a gun and specially had GZ had the gun pointed at him.

Seems to me entirely possible that Trayvon felt the gun through Z's jacket/clothing while they struggled on the ground and grabbed at it. The fabric would prevent any prints/DNA etc. Just a theory.

But I'm wondering if "inconclusive" means there was someone else's DNA on that holster, but there isn't enough material (or it's mixed) to confirm whose.

Fern

This is highly probable and would fall in line with GZ's statement/story.