Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[lotus503]

Regretfully most in the TM camp refuse to see this.

There is no evidence to weaken the primary story. Martin was attacking Zimmerman; did not stop when yelled at and was shot while still over/on top of Zimmerman.

Evidence as to how the situation may evolved is murky but does not negate the final facts.

Theories can be developed to support Martin and holes can be poked in them.

Yeah I agree I havent seen any evidence to date that demonstrates this.
But I am not ready to call it over until the legal process has concluded.

Wintess #8 may have nothing new to add, but then again she may. Have to wait and see if she takes the stand etc.

I point this out because a lot of armchair lawyers have called this and have concluded it over, when reality is, Zimmerman is still charged, still out on bond and still has court appearances to make.

 

[spidey07]

Yeah I agree I havent seen any evidence to date that demonstrates this.
But I am not ready to call it over until the legal process has concluded.

Wintess #8 may have nothing new to add, but then again she may. Have to wait and see if she takes the stand etc.

I point this out because a lot of armchair lawyers have called this and have concluded it over, when reality is, Zimmerman is still charged, still out on bond and still has court appearances to make.

All because of a racist family and lawyer. Not to mention all the people duped by the story laid out by said racist family and lawyer. It truly is a travesty of justice.

It's text book Twana Brawley and Duck LaCrosse team all over again. Same playbook.

 

[lotus503]

All because of a racist family and lawyer. It truly is a travesty of justice.

The familiy didnt charge him, the state did, contrary to your personal belief, most people didnt assume there would be race riots if he didnt get charged.

Its may be a travesty of justice, like I said I have yet to see evidence of a crime but he is still charged, still on bond and now the process has to complete.

 

[spidey07]

The familiy didnt charge him, the state did, contrary to your personal belief, most people didnt assume there would be race riots if he didnt get charged.

Its may be a travesty of justice, like I said I have yet to see evidence of a crime but he is still charged, still on bond and now the process has to complete.

I can guarantee you most folks in the police department and state departments were fearful of race riots if he wasn't charged.

That is the ONLY reason he was charged to begin with.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Look at the psychos in this thread... People like that are exactly why he was charged.

The entire thing started with the crumptonite smear campaign... From the fake anonymous "zimmerman is racist" phone calls to sanford PD down to the manipulated pictures of trayvon to make him look like a cherub chile.



You guys were duped. The sooner you realize that the better.

 

[lotus503]

I can guarantee you most folks in the police department and state departments were fearful of race riots if he wasn't charged.

That is the ONLY reason he was charged to begin with.

How could you with a straight face guarantee that at all?
Most people thought the sanford police did a shitty job, had it gone to grand jury and no charges I think that would have solved that issue.

What we have is a state case of murder 2 that has yet to produce evidence to substantiate the affidavit, that may hold, that may prove to be untrue. I have yet to see them present thier case, I have seen a lot of evidence and statements but no testimony or experts to outline that evidence.

State indicating they do not have proof zimemrman started it could indicate they dont feel to get a conviction they need to prove that. I dont see that, but then again im not a prosecutor.

 

[spidey07]

How could you with a straight face guarantee that at all?
Most people thought the sanford police did a shitty job, had it gone to grand jury and no charges I think that would have solved that issue.

What we have is a state case of murder 2 that has yet to produce evidence to substantiate the affidavit, that may hold, that may prove to be untrue. I have yet to see them present thier case, I have seen a lot of evidence and statements but no testimony or experts to outline that evidence.

State indicating they do not have proof zimemrman started it could indicate they dont feel to get a conviction they need to prove that. I dont see that, but then again im not a prosecutor.

Because it is the only logical conclusion to be made based on facts and evidence. The ONLY reason zimmerman was arrested was to appease a racist mob ready to riot.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The ONLY reason people thought sanford PD did a bad job was due to the media smear campaign by crumpton and his crew.

 

[airdata]

There is no evidence that TM was defending himself.

There's no evidence to the contrary either.

We know that GZ was after him because he was black like the burglary suspects. These assholes always get away, fucking punk.... he'd already made his mind up about who Trayvon was before having the tiniest of clues.

And that's the mindset he had when he left his car and then let it be known he wasn't returning despite the operator telling him they didn't need him to follow him.

So all the way up to before the altercation, we have all of that on tape recording. We know exactly what was going through Zimmerman's head when he left his car. We know he was thinking irrationally and jumping to incorrect conclusions prior to playing police.

Trayvon on the other hand... we just know that this other guy we have on tape acting like a fucking idiot claimed that he looked suspicious. But then we find out he was not out of place and was in fact staying over there.


That's what we know.

 

[airdata]

I love how Lotus is in here keeping their posts totally neutral, even saying they don't think there was a crime committed and they're still making spidey look like a damn fool.

 

[lotus503]

Look at the psychos in this thread... People like that are exactly why he was charged.

The entire thing started with the crumptonite smear campaign... From the fake anonymous "zimmerman is racist" phone calls to sanford PD down to the manipulated pictures of trayvon to make him look like a cherub chile.



You guys were duped. The sooner you realize that the better.

I wasnt duped, I evaluted everything as it was released, where we differ is the moral implications of the events that night, you see nothing wrong with zimemrmans actions I do. thats where %90 of the dissagreement on this case comes from on this thread.

each thinking the evidence reflects the thoughts they have on the case.

After most of the "Known" evidence came out I had to reconsile and say although I think from a moral standpoint Zimemrman should bear some culpability from a legal perspective I dont see the evidence.

Tosss with it your own thoughts surrounding the morality and culpability and we have a clash.

And for every tasha type post that demonstrates ignorance there are you and others to counter with your own ignorance.

frankly outside of maybe OCnewbie, Londo, Eaglekeeper and Terry, the rest of that side of the fence is equally as ridiculous as what you complain about from a martin side.

 

[lotus503]

I love how Lotus is in here keeping their posts totally neutral, even saying they don't think there was a crime committed and they're still making spidey look like a damn fool.

No I think Zimmerman is a piece of shit, too irresponsble to own a gun. and could have made numerous good descisons that would of resulted in them both going about a normal life.

I also think its likley martin did make a choice to beat his ass and that choice was a bad one that cost him his life.

You have two people both making stupid choices, one dead and a lack of evidence the other commited murder 2.

I also see you trying to fill in the evidence in ways that support murder and thats what the back and forth is on the thread between you and other posters.

I get it Zimmerman is a douche and should have stayed in his car, he should have listened to the non emergency op, he should have told martin was he was doing. that doesnt change his injuries, the eye wtiness with martin on top and outside of evidence martin was defending himself, zimmerman is going to walk.


I think its just as disgusting as you do when spatial and spidey dive into racist martin thug mode and pull all sorts of inconsequencial shit from there ass to support it.

But thats not a legal issue, that an implied morality issue, in which we agree, just not on the legal end.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No I think Zimmerman is a piece of shit, too irresponsble to own a gun. and could have made numerous good descisons that would of resulted in them both going about a normal life.

I also think its likley martin did make a choice to beat his ass and that choice was a bad one that cost him his life.

You have two people both making stupid choices, one dead and a lack of evidence the other commited murder 2.

I also see you trying to fill in the evidence in ways that support murder and thats what the back and forth is on the thread between you and other posters.

I get it Zimmerman is a douche and should have stayed in his car, he should have listened to the non emergency op, he should have told martin was he was doing. that doesnt change his injuries, the eye wtiness with martin on top and outside of evidence martin was defending himself, zimmerman is going to walk.


I think its just as disgusting as you do when spatial and spidey dive into racist martin thug mode and pull all sorts of inconsequencial shit from there ass to support it.

But thats not a legal issue, that an implied morality issue, in which we agree, just not on the legal end.

Excellent post!

/thread

 

[soundforbjt]

Regretfully most in the TM camp refuse to see this.

There is no evidence to weaken the primary story. Martin was attacking Zimmerman; did not stop when yelled at and was shot while still over/on top of Zimmerman.

Evidence as to how the situation may evolved is murky but does not negate the final facts.

Theories can be developed to support Martin and holes can be poked in them.

Martin could've easily stopped when "John" said he was going to call 911. While he leaves, TM releases GZ and sits up...GZ than gets access to his gun and shoots TM, killing him. No witness, fits ballistics and is murder.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Martin could've easily stopped when "John" said he was going to call 911. While he leaves, TM releases GZ and sits up...GZ than gets access to his gun and shoots TM, killing him. No witness, fits ballistics and is murder.

Yes, this is plausible. However, there's no evidence that proves this to be the case beyond a reasonable doubt which would be required for a conviction.

 

[soundforbjt]

Yes, this is plausible. However, there's no evidence that proves this to be the case beyond a reasonable doubt which would be required for a conviction.

It sounds more plausible than GZ's story of "oh, ya gotta gun, now you're gonna die" & "you got me". None of which was heard by witnesses nor "John".

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It sounds more plausible than GZ's story of "oh, ya gotta gun, now you're gonna die" & "you got me". None of which was heard by witnesses nor "John".

Yet, the evidence that will be in the defense's favor/corroborates GZ claim and this evidence that shows GZ was assaulted and TM was on top when he was shot. Two witnesses place TM on top of GZ just prior to the shot being fired. Without any hard/credible evidence to the contrary it will be difficult to refute GZ's claim of self defense and prove 2nd degree murder.

 

[They Live]

No I think Zimmerman is a piece of shit, too irresponsble to own a gun. and could have made numerous good descisons that would of resulted in them both going about a normal life.

I also think its likley martin did make a choice to beat his ass and that choice was a bad one that cost him his life.

You have two people both making stupid choices, one dead and a lack of evidence the other commited murder 2.

I also see you trying to fill in the evidence in ways that support murder and thats what the back and forth is on the thread between you and other posters.

I get it Zimmerman is a douche and should have stayed in his car, he should have listened to the non emergency op, he should have told martin was he was doing. that doesnt change his injuries, the eye wtiness with martin on top and outside of evidence martin was defending himself, zimmerman is going to walk.


I think its just as disgusting as you do when spatial and spidey dive into racist martin thug mode and pull all sorts of inconsequencial shit from there ass to support it.

But thats not a legal issue, that an implied morality issue, in which we agree, just not on the legal end.

They did that in the Jordan Davis thread as well. All sorts of ranting about "hoodies in deep cover", "thug behavior", and other nonsense.

 

[brianmanahan]

holy crap people

never before has a dead horse been beaten as much as in this thread

 

[spidey07]

Martin could've easily stopped when "John" said he was going to call 911. While he leaves, TM releases GZ and sits up...GZ than gets access to his gun and shoots TM, killing him. No witness, fits ballistics and is murder.

Not murder. That's still self defense as Martin was still an immediate threat and zman still on his back.

 

[soundforbjt]

Not murder. That's still self defense as Martin was still an immediate threat and zman still on his back.

I'll bet a jury wouldn't see it that way.

 

[spidey07]

I'll bet a jury wouldn't see it that way.

When the defense explains the law, they MUST see it that way. I have done an excellent job of explaining self defense laws, florida's in particular. The only way folks don't understand them now is only via willfull ignorance.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'll bet a jury wouldn't see it that way.

You know if a jury returns a conviction not consistent with the law, that the judge is duty bound to set it aside, right?

There is no equivalent of jury nullification for conviction.

 

[OCNewbie]

Martin could've easily stopped when "John" said he was going to call 911. While he leaves, TM releases GZ and sits up...GZ than gets access to his gun and shoots TM, killing him. No witness, fits ballistics and is murder.

Well, I guess since it's possible, we'll roll with it, and find GZ guilty, despite there being no evidence whatsoever to support it. That sounds like a fair administering of justice, doesn't it?

It sounds more plausible than GZ's story of "oh, ya gotta gun, now you're gonna die" & "you got me". None of which was heard by witnesses nor "John".

Well, as long as it sounds more plausible (to you), I guess that should be sufficient to ignore the fact there is no evidence to support this scenario that you have chosen to believe in. Let's just throw the book at GZ as a reward to you and your creativity.

I hope you realize the absurdity of your baseless conclusions.

 

[soundforbjt]

Well, I guess since it's possible, we'll roll with it, and find GZ guilty, despite there being no evidence whatsoever to support it. That sounds like a fair administering of justice, doesn't it?



Well, as long as it sounds more plausible (to you), I guess that should be sufficient to ignore the fact there is no evidence to support this scenario that you have chosen to believe in. Let's just throw the book at GZ as a reward to you and your creativity.

I hope you realize the absurdity of your baseless conclusions.

The evidence would support my scenario as well as it supports GZ's claims. Remove GZ's claims and it could go either way and the evidence could be shown to fit.