Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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The abrasion was on the finger between the knuckle and 1st joint, the flat part when you make a fist. As already pointed out about a dozen times, there wouldn't be any brusing because he died before any brusing or swelling could form.

Better check again, iirc, you're wrong on the location.
 
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Sep 7, 2009
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I don't see how you consider me stating the following as agreeing with you.



I saying you're going to be upset with the judge rules that the MW guidelines are irrelevant as they're not a lawful order from the police.
They're suggestions and nothing more.


Yup, exactly the same with police dispatch. All of these guidelines are about protecting the "organization" IE neighborhood watch orgs don't want to be liable, thus have their own rules. Same with a dispatch worker.


The reality is that a concerned citizen (NW watch or not) has EVERY lawful right to keep an eye on someone casing houses.

These crumptonites are going to be very upset over the next few months......
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Yup, exactly the same with police dispatch. All of these guidelines are about protecting the "organization" IE neighborhood watch orgs don't want to be liable, thus have their own rules. Same with a dispatch worker.


The reality is that a concerned citizen (NW watch or not) has EVERY lawful right to keep an eye on someone casing houses.

These crumptonites are going to be very upset over the next few months......

Yet you're going to be upset when the judge rules the stolen jewelry, hearsay on taking a swing at a bus driver, or drug dealing to be irrelevant in this case as well. None of this has anything to do with what transpired on the night of 2/26/12.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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Yet you're going to be upset when the judge rules the stolen jewelry, hearsay on taking a swing at a bus driver, or drug dealing to be irrelevant in this case as well. None of this has anything to do with what transpired on the night of 2/26/12.


My arguments aren't just about what is legal in a court of law.

And, trayvon's current little thug phase is all hugely relevant as to what transpired that night.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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Yet you're going to be upset when the judge rules the stolen jewelry, hearsay on taking a swing at a bus driver, or drug dealing to be irrelevant in this case as well. None of this has anything to do with what transpired on the night of 2/26/12.

exactly in fact nothing prior to that night is going to have any bearing at all in the legal case. Lots and lots of people from both sides are going to be butthurt.

this is going to come down to the evidence period, no woulda shoulda coulda, no, but a week or year prior someone did XYZ.

that night only and the evidence surrounding that night.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
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126
Yet you're going to be upset when the judge rules the stolen jewelry, hearsay on taking a swing at a bus driver, or drug dealing to be irrelevant in this case as well. None of this has anything to do with what transpired on the night of 2/26/12.

Thx for trying to be a voice of reason LJ
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
My arguments aren't just about what is legal in a court of law.

And, trayvon's current little thug phase is all hugely relevant as to what transpired that night.

Only if the judge decides to allow said information. Most likely we'll be seeing posts from you pissing and moaning that the judge ruled all you've held dear as being irrelevant to the case.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
My arguments aren't just about what is legal in a court of law.

And, trayvon's current little thug phase is all hugely relevant as to what transpired that night.


You really dont have arguments, more like suspicions based on scant info you like to pass off as facts on the forums to the point of actual lying.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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You really dont have arguments, more like suspicions based on scant info you like to pass off as facts on the forums to the point of actual lying.



Every day people are killed under 'worse' circumstances with far FAR less facts that prove self-defense.


What detail is so important that you feel personally compelled to come in and defend this obvious thug from getting exactly what he asked for? Or is it just black and white as I suspected?


?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
exactly in fact nothing prior to that night is going to have any bearing at all in the legal case. Lots and lots of people from both sides are going to be butthurt.

this is going to come down to the evidence period, no woulda shoulda coulda, no, but a week or year prior someone did XYZ.

that night only and the evidence surrounding that night.

Yes and no.


In a normal case without all this media hype? GZ would have a slam dunk self defense case according to the currently released public evidence without a need to go further than the evidence of two eye witness testimonies that were not GZ. Both testimonies place TM on top of GZ hitting him and both are on record stating GZ was the one asking for help before the shot was fired. That right there is enough in a self defense case normally.

But because of the media and political circus that surrounded this case, the defense team has to make sure it is 100% covered from every angle. They are looking to PROVE innocence in this case where normally that is not needed. Since evidence besides GZ's testimony is lacking of who started the fight, the defense is looking for character evidence to further bolster the self defense claim. With character evidence, which the judge said could be used, the defense team is looking to provide even further GZ's claim of who attack whom first. It is circumstantial evidence, but circumstantial evidence can be used in court in the right way.

This is also why the defense is going after Crump. They are trying to provide and find evidence of witness coaching/tampering in the case of Dee Dee. They are looking for evidence in TM's past records to see what his RECENT character was. If the defense can provide evidence, even if it's just additional circumstantial evidence, of TM's recent propensity for either violence, criminal mischief, or both; and evidence of Crump's tampering with witness testimony then the defense is going to blow the prosecutions case out of the water. They will be able to prove with as much certainty as they can with the evidence that is available GZ's innocence beyond a doubt. That is the game plan that I can logically deduce.

Even if the above circumstantial evidence is not found, such as a record of TM's propensity for violence or criminal mischief, that doesn't mean the prosecution has a case with the current evidence they have. The point is to prove to the PUBLIC beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ is innocent so that he can get on with his life after this trial once found innocent.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Yes and no.


In a normal case without all this media hype? GZ would have a slam dunk self defense case according to the currently released public evidence without a need to go further than the evidence of two eye witness testimonies that were not GZ. Both testimonies place TM on top of GZ hitting him and both are on record stating GZ was the one asking for help before the shot was fired. That right there is enough in a self defense case normally.

But because of the media and political circus that surrounded this case, the defense team has to make sure it is 100% covered from every angle. They are looking to PROVE innocence in this case where normally that is not needed. Since evidence, beyond GZ's testimony, is lacking of who started the fight, the defense is looking for character evidence to further bolster the self defense claim. With character evidence, oh which the judge said could be used, the defense team is looking to provide even further backup evidence to GZ's claim of who attack whom first. It is circumstantial to a point, but circumstantial evidence can be used in court in the right way.

This is why the defense is going after Crump. They are trying to provide and find evidence of witness coaching/tampering in the case of Dee Dee. They are looking for evidence in TM's past records to see what his RECENT character was. If the defense can provide evidence, even if it's just additional circumstantial evidence, of TM's recent propensity for either violence, criminal mischief, or both; and evidence of Crump's tampering with witness testimony then the defense is going to blow the prosecutions case out of the water. They will be able to prove with as much certainty as they can with the evidence that is available GZ's innocence beyond a doubt. That is the game plan that I can logically deduce.

Even if the above circumstantial evidence is not found, such as a record of TM's propensity for violence or criminal mischief, that doesn't mean the prosecution has a case with the current evidence they have. The point is to prove to the PUBLIC beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ is innocent so that he can get on with his life after this trial once found innocent.

bolded part is the only true part of that sentence.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
This isn't some bullshit case like OJ. Where he gets off faking he can't fit his hand into the bloody glove. There was a mountain of evidence that should have convicted OJ, which he finally admitted to doing. But since out justice system prevents double jeopardy he can't be found guilty for murder now even with a confession from him.

This case has zero evidence from the prosecution for murder. Nothing at all. There is a clear cut case of self defense with the current forensic AND eye witness testimonies.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
John does not know for sure (He couldn't see) who was screaming and no one saw actual punches being thrown.

LOL, did you not listen to John's recorded police interview? There was nothing "uncertain" in that interview. And he wasn't the only one either.
 
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