Depends what you mean by proof and "start".
There's certainly evidence that GZ had some level of hostility towards Martin. And that he was willing to go to some lengths to not let him get away.
And there's evidence that Martin belonged in the area and wasn't doing anything at all unusual for ateenager, acquiring snacks and talking to a girl on the phone.
In fact the facts are so stark that its incomprehensible to me that anyone would really blame Martin for the fact they had an encounter.
Now that still leaves open the question of the severity of Zimmerman's injuries as well as the believability of his statements neither of which I think can be resolved without a trial.
In deciding whether defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge [him] [her] by the circumstances by which [he] [she] was surrounded at the time the force was used.
The danger facing the defendant need not have been actual;
however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force.
Based upon appearances, the defendant must have actually believed that the danger was real.
[SIZE=-1](1)[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3)[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
[/SIZE]
So you feel the felony aggravated assault and battery by Martin was ok? That Zimmerman was asking for the felony beatdown?
The perfect analogy in all this is you believe rape of a woman is ok if she was asking for it.
And that is not a hyperbole or straw man. It is exactly comparable according to law and basic human decency.
Oh, and rape or sexual assault are forcible felonies. The same as aggravated battery. Both are forcible felonies. Same according to law.
calling Martin's actions a felony is no different than calling what Zimmerman did murder.
I don't do either.
You must have missed in my statement where I said "iirc".
And I can't help Sanford scrubbed the rules from their website. Please show me the "jogging patrol" you claimed.
So no, you can't answer it? Neither can your crumptonite buddies.
Every day people are killed under 'worse' circumstances with far FAR less facts that prove self-defense.
What detail is so important that you feel personally compelled to come in and defend this obvious thug from getting exactly what he asked for? Or is it just black and white as I suspected?
I can tell you why I'm doing it, it's due to a totally innocent man and upstanding member of his community being lynch mobbed by people who must have some sort of bias.
All of the major news channels have figured this out, why haven't you?
Your entire question is based on a strawman. I come here because its a massive thread I have participated in for months and its not concluded.
I also come here to shred bad arguments and expose folks like you lying.
simply because its fun, I have no higher purpose or calling for posting here.
The fact that you yourself state you come here because
"it's due to a totally innocent man and upstanding member of his community being lynch mobbed by people who must have some sort of bias."
Yet not a single thing you post here does anything about
"a totally innocent man and upstanding member of his community being lynch mobbed by people who must have some sort of bias"
EPIC narcissism you got there, so much so you lie about things.
thanks for sharing.
So I assume you are ready to present one single piece of evidence why the victim zimmerman should have been arrested? This innocent victim that is being lynched by you and your ilk?
You DO know what a lynch mob is, don't you? I've pointed it out to you specifically many times as much as I've shown you history and state law. Yet you remain willfully ignorant after being spoon fed facts, evidence, information, logic, blinding irrefutable truth you remain purposefully ignorant.
So...where is that one bit of evidence zimmerman committed ANY crime?
Just one shred...go on...post it!
No I don't think the state has produced sufficient evidence of murder 2.
The state thinks he committed a crime and they charged him with it, you want internet lawyers to set aside the states case because you dont think he shouldn't have been charged.
All of your lynch mob crap is your own racial insecurity rearing its head. I mean you the one dude on the internet I have witnessed first hand preparing for a race war.
What you want everyone to do is take what you say get all outraged about it, call for the SA's head on a platter sue the martins and all the other Nutfuck things you say related to the case.
Sorry pal Zimmerman may be %100 innocent of any crime and you still will be a racist douche nozzle.
begone with your worthless racist ass, I have already given you more time than you deserve.
I think I just figured out something.
Spidey and spatial think they are doing some civic duty and are being all bro with zimmerman by their posts on the forum.
You guys are posting for some greater good aren't ya?
Here is a Protip for you, nothing any of us say on here matters one bit, if you think it does then you have bigger problems than I previously suspected.
In the face of facts and rule of law you side with only the racists in this thread - the ones who refuse to believe that by all evidence "slim" committed a forcible felony and was in the commission of a forcible felony when shot.
You are the racist, not I.
You DO know what a lynch mob is, don't you? Go google it racist.
I've given Z-man 1000 bucks.
You think what I post on this forum is all I'm doing for justice?
I will defeat you and your ilk, fucking racist.
Will you present one single shred of evidence zimmerman committed any crime? I keep asking, you do not deliver in face of all the facts and evidence.
Bullshit!
All evidence shows felony aggravated assault and battery by martin. Zero evidence supports zimmerman committed any crime.
No matter how you feel, mounting and pounding somebody's head into concete repeatedly and grabbing their head and slamming to the concrete or ground while on top of them is a forcible felony. PERIOD, you cannot argue this FACT.
Of course it can be argued. If its conceivable to kill someone in self-defense its conceivable to do all the things you just stated in self-defense too.
If what Martin did he did as self-defense then he did not commit a crime.
The problem is there isn't a clear reason WHY TM did "all those things". GZ had wounds consistent (though to what degree of consistency, that gets frequently debated) with the attack he describes, was seen below TM just prior to the shot (which also is consistent with his story), and ballistics seem to indicate strongly that TM remained beneath GZ at the time of the shot. Many also believe (in fact, even TM's father, on initially hearing the screams, said they weren't TM's) that the screams were GZ's and argue that there isn't an obvious reason the screams would have been TM's.
There's 3 or 4 things that lend credence, in fact very strong credence, that GZ had a reason to fear for his life, and thus react with self-defense in mind. TM has nothing remotely close to the same known reasons to have feared for his life. Taking a page from emperus' book, this is a false equivalence.
Well, the screams for "Help!" were probably more closely related, sonically(acoustically?), to something TM's dad would be familiar with, as well as GZ's dad (who claims the screams were his sons). I doubt anybody in either of the respective families had ever heard the blood-curdling screams emitted by either of the potential screamers.Just curious, when do you think the last time TM's Father could remember his son screaming? I know my father wouldn't know my screams, but my mother would.
Just curious, when do you think the last time TM's Father could remember his son screaming? I know my father wouldn't know my screams, but my mother would.
Originally Posted by Druidx
More like airdata at every post.
You imply he broke the rules so I asked you to prove he confronted TM, You can't so you just keep repeating yourself because you don't want to admit you were wrong.
Observe and report, that is exactly what he did. When TM ran off he was no longer a threat. You ignore when and where it happened, an area we known TM just ran from just moments before.
More like airdata at every post.
You imply he broke the rules so I asked you to prove he confronted TM, You can't so you just keep repeating yourself because you don't want to admit you were wrong.
Observe and report, that is exactly what he did. When TM ran off he was no longer a threat. You ignore when and where it happened, an area we known TM just ran from just moments before.
Oh, did I hear my name?
Curious what that statement means to you since I come in here all the time and prove you and your circle jerk friends wrong left and right.
There's plenty of proof Zimmerman instigated the altercation. He went out of his way to go after Trayvon when he could have gone back in his car and been about his business.
Observer&report ended when the dispatcher asked him if he'd left his car to follow Trayvon, and made it clear they didn't need him to follow to which GZ says "OK" but then spends the next 2-3 minutes milling about with his flashlight out "Not Following" since you guys keep bringing up how the prosecution under oath stated they have no evidence he kept following... he just failed to get back in his car that was 10-15 seconds walk away from where he was, and spend 2-3 minutes... doing... well, shit... help me out here because as far as I can deduce... if a person stops what they're doing to follow somebody, but then doesn't stop doing it... then they must be continuing to follow...
HOLY SHIT.>> how mind blowing is that.
As far as carrying a gun on neighborhood watch it's understood since they're not supposed to be putting themselves in any situations that would warrant a gun.
You guys keep talking as if the situation happened under completely different circumstances.
GZ actively sought out the confrontation and got what he wanted. The only evidence Trayvon was heading back to confront Zimmerman also implicates zimmerman as having given a false statement... so cool, you guys want to play that card... then you're also saying zimmerman's a lying piece of shit at the same time.
There's 3 or 4 things that lend credence, in fact very strong credence, that GZ had a reason to fear for his life, and thus react with self-defense in mind. TM has nothing remotely close to the same known reasons to have feared for his life. Taking a page from emperus' book, this is a false equivalence.
How is it a double standard? I'm expecting there to be a logical explanation for each party involved to have had reason to fear for their respective lives when they took their supposed "life-saving" actions; I'm holding them both to that standard equally (thus it's NOT a double standard). The threats, or reasons cited for TM taking his actions are not inherently life endangering: someone following you, someone approaching you and asking you a question.This is an absolute fallacy and double standard.
I've given Z-man 1000 bucks.
You think what I post on this forum is all I'm doing for justice?
I will defeat you and your ilk, fucking racist.
Will you present one single shred of evidence zimmerman committed any crime? I keep asking, you do not deliver in face of all the facts and evidence.
Is legality the basis of morality? Or did you give 1000 to someone that's legally good, but morally a racist fuck?
More like me because he's proving you and others wrong constantly? I'll take that.
I want to see Zimmerman on the stand. He's either going to purger himself ( again ) or he's going to plead the 5th and thereby admit guilt.
I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.
The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.
Good thing I said nothing about the court. I'm speaking in common sense terms. You know. Stuff that everybody knows. It's simply common sense that if somebody invokes the 5th, it shows that they're hiding things.