You can tell during the deposition that she was being led by BLDR. Several areas you can tell she making things up.
We all know GZ has a somewhat high voice from his NEN call yet Dee Dee tried to make him out to be some big burly scary man.
I would also like to know how she knew TM since they were kindergarten when she's at least 1 year older than him.
On top of that, trayvon 'ran away' and got away.... And was hidden for almost 5 minutes before specifically doubling back and confronting zimmerman. That is not "reasonable fear".
And you guys can save your "trayvon confronted zimmerman so he could confront him before being confronted" nonsense.
Trayvon was never in fear for his life. He could've called 911, he could've ran inside his house, he had many different options.
Instead he assaulted an innocent man for "disrespectin" him while casing houses.
Just humor me on the hypothetical here...
If what he says is 100% true... do you still feel he deserved to be attacked?
Let me remind you of what he says:
He claims he got out of his car, did not run but WALKED to the top of the "T" junction Trayvon had run south from, and never had any intention of trying to catch up to Trayvon. Rather, his hope was to reacquire a visual on him, and the expectation I believe he had was that he'd see Trayvon running southward, at a great distance, either down the "T" path or at the street to the east, and be able to relay this information to police.
So, if that's true and he gets to the "T" and doesn't see Trayvon... says "he ran" to the dispatch, indicating this, then spends another 1:40 on the phone with dispatch while he walks around just sort of mentally processing what had happened and what to do next, gets off the phone and decides he'll go look on his street to the east for an address on a house to relay to the responding officer when he calls back... has no idea this whole time where Trayvon is... then starts back toward his truck, and Trayvon has now run back northward from waaaaay down all the way at his house, having seen GZ cross the "T" and is now up there with assault on his mind....
If that's all true, I just want to know if you honestly still think him getting out of his car and doing that is equivalent to poking a dog with a stick, or provoking anything...
If Trayvon literally didn't even know George had gotten out of his car until he looked back up northward from ALL THE WAY down at the south end of the path, literally standing there at the door to the place he was staying... and had a choice of either going inside, or running northward to ensure he caught GZ before he managed to get back to his car... so he could assault him, would you honestly still find that acceptable behavior on Trayvon's part?
This hypothetical is based on GZ's testimony in part, as well as pieces of evidence and the interpretation many of us think is at least consistent with it.
Why would Martin fear for his life before Zimmerman turned South from his direct path back to his vehicle, threw his keys&flashlight down at the dog poop station and moved in to grapple with Martin?
My impression is that she is at the new school
Why do you think he started back towards his truck when he asks the dispatcher to have the police call him so he can tell him where he is ?
That's not consistent with him going towards his truck.
Your problem is you listen to Zimmerman's statements and then work from there. What you should consider doing is looking at the actual evidence. Which tells us two things.
1. Zimmerman was determined to not let Martin get away.
2. He got out of his truck to, at a minimum, try to see where Martin was going.
Additionally, there's no reason to think Zimmerman did not want to confront Martin, there is circumstantial evidence that Martin did not want to confront Zimmerman. If he wanted to confront him he could have when Zimmerman was still in his truck. Instead there's evidence he tried to get away from Zimmerman.
The whole theory that Martin, being a thug, had a plan to jump Zimmerman makes no sense, how would he know Zimmerman would get out of his truck ?
There's actually only one logical explanation for them having a fight and that is that Martin felt threatened or challenged by Zimmerman. As the police investigator said, just following Martin could instigate such a reaction. In addition, it is an actual fact that Zimmerman did want to interfere with Martin's liberty, either directly or indirectly by calling the police. And we know there's evidence there was no reason for that to happen.
Now that's not the entirety of the case so I'm not trying to render a decision, just to make that clear.
Given that Martin's previous school was 8 miles away (Miami Carol); that is an entirely different neighborhood; three major highways separate the areas.
Changed schools from west central (geographical area) to NE Miami.
If she was at the new school; the kindergarten story is all likelihood a false statement.
If she was at the previous school, it is possible that he still maintained contact with her after 6 months.
My impression is that she is at the new school
I dont how much will come up during the trial about DeeDees apparent perjury, probably depends on if she testifies and what she says. Maybe Im wrong but I see OMara getting a lot of mileage out of it during his closing argument.
The state rushed to charge a defense witness with perjury but looked the other way when the states star witness lied under oath during her deposition, not once but twice ( Crump and DLR ). The same witness whose testimony was the basis for the very charges brought against GZ.
I think the prosecution has some concerns how it will be used by the defense, considering how uncomfortable DLR looked yesterday when he ducked that question at the press conference.
Why do you think he started back towards his truck when he asks the dispatcher to have the police call him so he can tell him where he is ?
That's not consistent with him going towards his truck.
My thoughts are that he was closer to the street (RVC) than his truck. He wanted to confirm his location before heading back. His home/area was on the other side of the development; I suspect while he may have driven RVC, he never walked it.
Your problem is you listen to Zimmerman's statements and then work from there. What you should consider doing is looking at the actual evidence. Which tells us two things.
1. Zimmerman was determined to not let Martin get away.
2. He got out of his truck to, at a minimum, try to see where Martin was going.
Additionally, there's no reason to think Zimmerman did not want to confront Martin, there is circumstantial evidence that Martin did not want to confront Zimmerman. If he wanted to confront him he could have when Zimmerman was still in his truck. Instead there's evidence he tried to get away from Zimmerman.
The whole theory that Martin, being a thug, had a plan to jump Zimmerman makes no sense, how would he know Zimmerman would get out of his truck ?
There's actually only one logical explanation for them having a fight and that is that Martin felt threatened or challenged by Zimmerman. As the police investigator said, just following Martin could instigate such a reaction. In addition, it is an actual fact that Zimmerman did want to interfere with Martin's liberty, either directly or indirectly by calling the police. And we know there's evidence there was no reason for that to happen.
Now that's not the entirety of the case so I'm not trying to render a decision, just to make that clear.
So TM committed assault and battery against GZ. During this commission of this assault and battery he was shot in self defense by GZ.
It wouldn't be assault and battery if Zimmerman started it. Or if Martin started it because he felt threatened.
You're smart enough to know that a person doesn't commit a crime unless their conduct meets ALL the elements of the crime and they have a trial and are convicted of the crime.
Since when do perjury charges apply when you are not under oath? .
I agree that Martin wanted to get away from Zimmerman when he was in the truck.
At that point he was unsure as to whom Zimmerman was;
Martin took off and realized after he got to the top of the T and out of sight that there was no official pursuit; lights/siren/whistle/shouts, etc.
Now along comes Zimmerman, walking slowly W->E and on the phone with NEN.
Martin sees him go by and determines that he is not a viable threat to be feared.
Zimmerman now comes walking back E->W (on the phone, who knows).
Depending now on what you want to believe:
Either way, now the verbal confrontation starts at the top of the T.
- Martin sees prey
- Zimmerman sees Martin
Escalates physically.
I agree that Martin wanted to get away from Zimmerman when he was in the truck.
At that point he was unsure as to whom Zimmerman was;
Martin took off and realized after he got to the top of the T and out of sight that there was no official pursuit; lights/siren/whistle/shouts, etc.
Now along comes Zimmerman, walking slowly W->E and on the phone with NEN.
Martin sees him go by and determines that he is not a viable threat to be feared.
Zimmerman now comes walking back E->W (on the phone, who knows).
Depending now on what you want to believe:
Either way, now the verbal confrontation starts at the top of the T.
- Martin sees prey
- Zimmerman sees Martin
Escalates physically.
What point are you trying to make ? That she wasn't on the phone with Trayvon ?
I assume it can be established from phone records that Martin's phone and her phone were connected for however long they were connected ? Is that wrong ?
Assuming it can be shown by the phone records, and not by her statement alone, then I don't really get what it is you think matters about her lying or not about things like the hospital ?
The most important thing she brings is just that she was on the phone with him. It helps define Martin as a typical teenage boy.
As far as what she says she heard, I'm not aware that she claims to have heard anything that's all that damaging to Zimmerman. What is the issue that's a problem for him if a jury accepts her testimony about that ?
Ok where's you proof that GZ started the physical altercation?
Actually all you have to do is apply the criteria of said crimes to determine if this criteria was met. Per Florida's assault and battery statutes TM met this criteria when he was on top of GZ (seen by witnesses and shown to be the case by ballistics data).
THere is no evidence to support your "what if" and plenty of evidence against it. That makes your what if false.
All the physical evidence. There is no "what if." Zimmerman's statement can be seen as a self serving cover up for "I killed a kid due to my poor inpulse control and don't want to serve time in jail for it!"
Since when do perjury charges apply when you are not under oath? As I have posted before Deedee needs careful questioning to get at the truth, because she comes off as a seeking to please scatterbrain with a tendency to exaggerate. Just think of Geosurface as female.
I agree that Martin wanted to get away from Zimmerman when he was in the truck.
At that point he was unsure as to whom Zimmerman was;
Martin took off and realized after he got to the top of the T and out of sight that there was no official pursuit; lights/siren/whistle/shouts, etc.
Now along comes Zimmerman, walking slowly W->E and on the phone with NEN.
Martin sees him go by and determines that he is not a viable threat to be feared.
Zimmerman now comes walking back E->W (on the phone, who knows).
Depending now on what you want to believe:
Either way, now the verbal confrontation starts at the top of the T.
- Martin sees prey
- Zimmerman sees Martin
Escalates physically.
I'm not seeing how Martin knows who Zimmerman is any better after he gets out of his truck ? He could be a cop, a pervert, a robber, a racist, a nut.
What he does know is, whoever this guy is who was eyeballing him from his truck, has now actually gotten out of his truck and is looking for him.
From Martin's POV, Martin isn't doing anything to warrant this attention. He is walking home from the store, talking on the phone.
There is not proof that either of them started it. But there's a lot of circumstantial evidence about why it happened and who's responsible for that.
Since there's no "proof" how it started, you think it goes to Zimmerman's favor becasue it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt he started it.
But that's the wrong way to view it. The reasonable doubt standard applies to the final decision, not to the evaluation of every piece of evidence, or the lack of evidence.
And please don't turn into another person who thinks that a person who it appears is winning a fight, on top, is necessarily the guilty party. That's just ludicrous.
In deciding whether defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge [him] [her] by the circumstances by which [he] [she] was surrounded at the time the force was used.
The danger facing the defendant need not have been actual;
however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force.
Based upon appearances, the defendant must have actually believed that the danger was real.
<snip>
A nobody should not be eyeballing him.
Time for a lesson.
If this case makes it to the jury they will be given the following instructions:
The fact that TM was on top of GZ (according to John possibly still striking him) and GZ was struggling to get free. I suspect that most jurors are going to think GZ could have been in fear for his life at that time and was justified in his use of force.
You could be right. But that doesn't mean Martin commited a felony. They both could have been in fear for their life and Zimmerman could still be found not guilty.
My point is, if people want to present a theory about Martin commiting a crime, that's fine.
But when people go beyond that and say he did commit a crime, I'm going to ask them to show why they think so and I'll challenge the things I think are based on assumptions, not facts.
I would do the same thing for Zimmerman, challenge people who've already convicted him, but there's plenty of people already doing that for him.