Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Oct 30, 2004
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Trayvon had 4 minutes to go 100 yards if he was scared. The truth is he was not scared, he was angry and wanted a confrontation.

...and there's no reason why he could not have easily run that 100 yards in under 1 minute (and probably under 45 or 30 seconds). He wasn't overweight and had been involved in athletics at one time.
 

MH2007

Senior member
Jun 26, 2007
830
0
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He did say that in his statements the night of the 26th.

It changed in the reenactment to pushing stumbling a bit and then he went down. Nothing explains 30' in any meaningful or reasonable way.

Where Z points in the reenactment is about where the key chain flashlight was found 8' or so from the T. I think its possible to stumble 8 feet before going down, but then wheres the other 22'?

It's no surprise that he would add more during the re-enactment. Not only would being punched in the nose stun him and effect his perception and memory, but being on the scene would also refresh his memory.

I just don't see how the distance involved is meaningful in any way. They were both standing at the start and Zimmerman was trying to get away while pushing with both of his arms at Martin to create space. Unless Martin tried to take his legs out from under him I just don't understand how anyone thinks it's significant that he was able to get some distance away before he actually went down.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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...and there's no reason why he could not have easily run that 100 yards in under 1 minute (and probably under 45 or 30 seconds). He wasn't overweight and had been involved in athletics at one time.

the pictures of him show him to be in good shape.

100 yards shouldn't been to much of a problem.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,334
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That makes more sense if he didn't run to begin with.
Truth is we don't know the truth.

I think people are making too big of a deal of the whole "scared" thing. When I was 17 I probably would've done what he did, except for assaulting GZ. Here's what I could see happening. You're initially freaked out because some guy is watching you, asking questions, whatever, so you take off. Once you're out of sight you relax a bit and you want to go back and see if he's still there, see what he's doing, or whatever.

17 year old me (I'm 31 now, I was never in trouble as a teen but I had a normal 17 year old male attitude) would've probably just left after I went back and saw him still there, and if he started questioning me I would've told him it's none of his business. I would've left it at that, but someone that's more aggressive might've gotten pissed off and sucker punched GZ. Just speculating, obviously, but I'm not sure why that's so hard for the TM supporters to believe. Of course that doesn't mean that TM deserved to die, but there's consequences for your actions.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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...and there's no reason why he could not have easily run that 100 yards in under 1 minute (and probably under 45 or 30 seconds). He wasn't overweight and had been involved in athletics at one time.

Why would he run home?, he thought he had lost Zimmerman who was following him from his truck?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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One thing I'm surprised the defense didn't bring up was the state of Trayvon's liver and brain. Both should signs of damage due to drug usage of a semi prolonged nature according to the autopsy. Although the info from the phone was largely "unauthenticated" in nature. When that evidence is compared with the evidence for damaged internal organs due to drug usage, it's a clear connection. When several pieces of evidence that would be circumstantial on their own are able to be connection together, those piece can form strong solid evidence. Actually that is pretty much how all evidence works really.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Yes he indicated he may have stumbled, right around where the keychain flashlight was found about 8' from the T. What about the other 22'ish feet?

Thats my point the physical evidence supports a number of different scenarios so making an affirmative conclusion like EK is simply not possible.

My affirmation is where the confrontation started; not how the distance was traveled afterwards.

Martin went after Zimmerman at the area of the T. He made that choice after leaving an area where Zimmerman was unable to see where he was.

Some here want to talk about attitude as justification; Martin's words (via RJ) was more aggressive than Zimmerman's when Zimmerman left the vehicle.

Once visual contact was broken; previous actions are only valid in terms of getting inside the persons head and figuring out what they were thinking are the time of the confrontation.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
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No its contrary to what he said he was doing though, if the goal was to walk back to the truck it doesn't take 2 minutes.

It doesn't matter what he was doing.
Confronting Martin isn't illegal either.

The only illegal act would be who started the assault and the evidence points to Martin.

Zimmerman could have been wearing a KKK robe, carrying a burring cross, and following Martin. Up until someone assaults the other person, no crime has been committed.

If you believe that Martin was the first person to lay a hand on someone in this fight then Zimmerman is innocent.

If you believer that Zimmerman was the first person to lay a hand on someone in this fight then Zimmerman is guilty.

Since the state/prosecution didn't present a shred of evidence to support that Zimmerman was the first person to initiate a physical confrontation we must assume that no such evidence exists. As no evidence exists, Zimmerman gets the benefit of the doubt being the defendant as the state has proven nothing beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Yeah, lack of blood & oxygen to the brain caused by a gunshot to the heart could never cause brain damage, could it? And LOL at the pot statement.

Damage from death and necrosis is going to cause different patterns of damage than someone with prolonged exposure to drugs that normal people don't take. It's not only damage to his brain that was revealed in the autopsy that was consistent with those that take drugs, but also damage to his liver and other internal organs that would be effected by those chemicals.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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I think people are making too big of a deal of the whole "scared" thing. When I was 17 I probably would've done what he did, except for assaulting GZ. Here's what I could see happening. You're initially freaked out because some guy is watching you, asking questions, whatever, so you take off. Once you're out of sight you relax a bit and you want to go back and see if he's still there, see what he's doing, or whatever.

17 year old me (I'm 31 now, I was never in trouble as a teen but I had a normal 17 year old male attitude) would've probably just left after I went back and saw him still there, and if he started questioning me I would've told him it's none of his business. I would've left it at that, but someone that's more aggressive might've gotten pissed off and sucker punched GZ. Just speculating, obviously, but I'm not sure why that's so hard for the TM supporters to believe. Of course that doesn't mean that TM deserved to die, but there's consequences for your actions.

Your posts has a lot of questioning and dialogue GZ didn't afford TM from the car or on foot.

But yeah I agree with your basic premise its not surprising he didn't run straight home given GZ was following from the car. I think he was south of the T talking on the phone saw GZ and made the wrong choice.

He sat there for a good while because we have a gap in time from the hang up with NEN and the 911 calls. question is what was zimmerman doing during this time? Ultimately I agree TMs actions are what caused his death.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
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Is TM not running home when he thinks he's safe from a guy following him in a car illegal?

I don't know what Martin was thinking. It is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the EVIDENCE produced at trail. The prosecution didn't introduce a shred of evidence to backup that assertion.

Please provide me a single shred of evidence to backup your assertion.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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It doesn't matter what he was doing.
Confronting Martin isn't illegal either.

The only illegal act would be who started the assault and the evidence points to Martin.

Zimmerman could have been wearing a KKK robe, carrying a burring cross, and following Martin. Up until someone assaults the other person, no crime has been committed.

If you believe that Martin was the first person to lay a hand on someone in this fight then Zimmerman is innocent.

If you believer that Zimmerman was the first person to lay a hand on someone in this fight then Zimmerman is guilty.

Since the state/prosecution didn't present a shred of evidence to support that Zimmerman was the first person to initiate a physical confrontation we must assume that no such evidence exists. As no evidence exists, Zimmerman gets the benefit of the doubt being the defendant as the state has proven nothing beyond a reasonable doubt.

Its does matter when were considering the credibility of the shooter.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Right had he agreed he wouldn't have been able to carry his gun on patrol and he would have had a full background check run, where his prior arrest would have been uncovered.

And would have been treated just like Lester and Nelson treated it.

Looking at the details; it becomes a non-event as to qualifications except for those looking for an excuse to make it one.


If one were to get a ticket for speeding does that preclude you from ever being a officer of the court or law enforcement.

NO!

It is a minor item; multiples could then be concern of a behavior pattern.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
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Its does matter when were considering the credibility of the shooter.

So say that Zimmerman lied. 100%.
So what?

What EVIDENCE did the prosecution produce to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that a crime was committed.

A dead body isn't evidence that any crime was committed.
That dead body being shot isn't evidence a crime was committed.

The only evidence of a crime being committed is a witness stating that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman's injuries relating to that person being on top of him.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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And would have been treated just like Lester and Nelson treated it.

Looking at the details; it becomes a non-event as to qualifications except for those looking for an excuse to make it one.


If one were to get a ticket for speeding does that preclude you from ever being a officer of the court or law enforcement.

NO!

It is a minor item; multiples could then be concern of a behavior pattern.

I agree its no big deal, you really need to understand the context of what your responding to though.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Sure and another witness said she saw two people running north towards the T. Witnesses are not completely reliable.

Without her glasses (which were needed) and then stated it could have been one.

Also there were shadows. One person could create two shadows.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
So say that Zimmerman lied. 100%.
So what?

What EVIDENCE did the prosecution produce to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that a crime was committed.

A dead body isn't evidence that any crime was committed.
That dead body being shot isn't evidence a crime was committed.

I don't think the state produced any evidence above Reasonable doubt.
But were not just discussing the outcome here, were discussing more details about what actually occurred, and what may have occurred given the evidence we do have.

If Zimmerman lied %100 then I think the idea he shot him in SD is eroded.

What your trying to do is reduce each discussion topic in the thread to proof BRD. Sprry pal we have 10's of thousands of posts discussing all sorts of stuff related to the case
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
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Because he has actually been trained in law enforcement and knows what to do and what justifies/triggers warranted suspicion.

It's no crime to do alot of stupid things, but doing them when you know it's stupid and against the guidelines/instructions laid out is asking for a bad outcome. I know it's stupid to wear a tie when operating a drill press, if I wear one and get hurt, was it the drill presses fault?


Yeah ok, just like I'm a scientist, historian, physiologist, paramedic, mathematician... I took classes in all those subjects, didn't you?

Interesting analogy, here is one more prudent to the case though.

You know it's stupid to wear a tie when operating a drill press, if you wear one and get hurt, because the drill press malfunctioned which had nothing to do with your tie, was it your fault?
 
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