Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Throckmorton]

Again those are assumptions, and that's what an investigation will determine. You're coming to conclusions without knowing anything.

The cops didn't even arrest the shooter. They aren't investigating and they aren't going to charge him. The 911 tape has probably already been destroyed.

 

[PokerGuy]

In case you didn't notice, this is a forum not a court. Speculation is what people on forums do. It's obvious what happened. The kid wasn't doing anything illegal and had no weapon, yet he was gunned down. So get over it.

Speculating is one thing, stating something as if it's a fact (like you just did - "he was gunned down. So get over it") just exposes you as an idiot. Speculating is not the same as stating something as a fact.

 

[waggy]

He could have got out of his car and asked him where he was going or what he was up to. Then black guy starts beating on him, then white guy shoots him.

Good shoot.

Agree. It has bad shoot written all over it. But there is the sticky point about being a watch captain on private property. There's a huge thread elsewhere where the information seems to be the black kids was beating the white guy so badly he was forced to shoot and was truly in fear for his life.

there's even speculation the black guy was beating him severely and white guy retreated to his car, black guy still being aggressive and treatening life and he shot him. That's a good shoot. There's a whole lot of information missing from this story and the news is playing it to be a race thing (meanwhile they never report on a black guy shooting a white guy in self defense, it never even hits the news).

Dude doesn't have a strong self defense case, sounds like a bad shoot if he instigated it. As long as he keeps repeating "I feared for my life, I feared for my life" he should be good though. He could simply say "he tried to enter my vehicle" and at that point he's golden. And if that is what happened then good shoot.

Good god! you racist paice of shit. There is no evidence besides a unarmed kid shot and you want to make shit up and defend the white guy? i knew you were a racist fuck!

you are one sick bastard.


No insults or personal attacks.

Administrator Idontcare

 

[spidey07]

Good god! you racist paice of shit. There is no evidence besides a unarmed kid shot and you want to make shit up and defend the white guy? i knew you were a racist fuck!

you are one sick bastard.

What the hell does race have to do with this story? I said it looks like a bad shoot. But there are plenty of ways it could be a good shoot and self defense. We don't know.

Have fun with your jump to conclusions mat and making it a race story.

 

[blankslate]

Again those are assumptions, and that's what an investigation will determine. You're coming to conclusions without knowing anything.

I'm making a conclusion based on a statement in the article.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

If the dispatcher did his/her job right then Mr. Zimmerman was told to back off and wait for officers then he is at fault for continuing to proceed in a way that caused a confrontation. If the dispatcher didn't follow protocol then the fault lies more with the authorities.

This is why the tapes need to be released and if the recording of the 911 call has somehow disappeared then there needs to be an investigation by state police and possibly the F.B.I. if the state police can't sort out the issue.

 

[Throckmorton]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2684419/shooting-mystery-miami-dade-teen.html

"When I asked the police why there’s been no arrest, they told me they respected the guy’s background, that he had a four-year degree; that he was clean," Tracy Martin said. “But did they check my unarmed son’s record? No.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2684419/shooting-mystery-miami-dade-teen.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[Londo_Jowo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html

The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after.
“We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said.

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm making a conclusion based on a statement in the article.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

We don't even know that part yet because the tapes have not been released. So even THAT is pure speculation.

If the dispatcher did his/her job right then Mr. Zimmerman was told to back off and wait for officers then he is at fault for continuing to proceed in a way that caused a confrontation. If the dispatcher didn't follow protocol then the fault lies more with the authorities.

That's probably not going to be the issue. Whatever the dispatcher tells you is not a lawful order from a cop. Depending on what happened, getting out of the car might have been a dumb idea, but that doesn't mean it's not self defense anyway.

This is why the tapes need to be released and if the recording of the 911 call has somehow disappeared then there needs to be an investigation by state police and possibly the F.B.I. if the state police can't sort out the issue.

Agreed.

 

[PokerGuy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html

Still looks like the appropriate steps are being taken. I don't see any reason to be upset at this point, just faux outrage from everyone jumping to conclusions.

 

[blankslate]

We don't even know that part yet because the tapes have not been released. So even THAT is pure speculation

Are we sure about that? Wouldn't agencies who are looking for the safest way to run a 911 service have a fairly common procedure for handling suspicious activity?

While the 911 dispatcher may not have a badge Mr. Zimmerman if he is a college educated person would have to figure that since dispatchers can contact the police and tell them where to go then the dispatcher should have relatively good advice on how to handle the situation.

 

[halik]

They're relevant because there's no other explanation for the white guy thinking the black kid walking on the sidewalk was suspicious except the color of his skin.

Not exactly, if you you're rocking one pent leg rolled up with blue/red/yellow bandanas, you're advertising that you're in a gang. Same goes for a white guy in camos, leather boots and shaved head.

Not enough info here to make a call on good shoot/bad shoot.

 

[pauldun170]

Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 on suspicion of battery on a law-enforcement officer. He was not prosecuted, and it looks like the case was dismissed for some reason.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

 

[janas19]

Not exactly, if you you're rocking one pent leg rolled up with blue/red/yellow bandanas, you're advertising that you're in a gang. Same goes for a white guy in camos, leather boots and shaved head.

Not enough info here to make a call on good shoot/bad shoot.

Really? You can't be serious.

When was the last time you heard of someone being shot for having a shaved head and wearing camo?

 

[blankslate]

Still looks like the appropriate steps are being taken. I don't see any reason to be upset at this point, just faux outrage from everyone jumping to conclusions.

From that article that Londo_Jowo posted

Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford Police Department on Thursday evening said the account given by Martin’s family and attorney is correct, that Zimmerman saw the young man walking home from the store. He said that Zimmerman did indeed call 911 and report a suspicious person, and that he was told not to follow him.

Assuming the Chief is going off of accurate information Mr. Zimmerman is an idiot who could've avoided shooting a 17 year old...

 

[halik]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

Ooooh odds are swinging towards the white kid being a hot head asshole.

 

[Craig234]

I live in a relatively criminal city, on a street that's not a 'through street' so there's no reason to come down it unless you're going to a house on it.

We have young men who ride bicycles around the neighborhood at all hours of the night. I'm pretty convinced they're often up to criminal activity, mostly theft.

They could be looking for things to take, or to call others and notify them of targets.

One time, I saw a cery 'suspicious looking' bike rider and asked him to say why he was there. He said something about visiting his friend up the street. I got in my car and did similar to the story, following him slowly. It was clear quickly he wasn't actually visiting anyone. He rode his bike past the house he'd identified and then back to the main street. At first there was a bit of trash talk then he didn't want to talk, and walking his bicycle, he was on his cell phone for several minutes clearly talking about this.

I continued to follow him for several minutes and blocks. Then he stopped at an open area, and waited. I didn't have a cell phone to call the police to check him out.

A man who looked in his 30's rode a bicycle up to him - clearly who he'd been talking to on the phone, looking not like a friend or relative but a criminal contact, and I forget his comments but it was basically some sort of defiant trash talk or threat. Finally the two of them rode off - I'd been hoping a police officer would drive by but none did - and I left at that.

The next day, there was a knock and a third person, a young hispanic guy, was there to try to be threatening acting like a drug crazed gang member, saying not to bother 'his friend' and all kinds of profanity and gang allusions and threats, I remember saying he 'is diablo', Spanish for the devil and such. Finally he wasn't getting anywhere and walked away. I immediately called the police and then tried to find the kid, but he was gone.

It wouldn't be that hard for street gang types like this to drive by and shoot into a window. No way they'd get caught.

A few days ago, similarly, I went out for a minute at 2:30 AM, ando found a suspicious bike rider slowly going on the street. Got in the car and followed him, again no cell phone. Followed him probably 10 minutes as he went a long way to some whole other neighborhood - again it was clear he had no business where I found him, riding away from the main street and then back to it. Finally a police car drove by and didn't see me wave and I decided to drive after him to try to flag him down.

When the bike rider saw this he did a sort of sarcastic wave, and then I couldn't find him.

I can see why there's a need to confront these people. There's a difference between this and the other situation in part because of there being not a through street.

(It actually is a U street, so if someone is going up one side the only reason is to go to a house; riding all the way around back to the main street shows they weren't visiting).

Recently a young career crimnal drug addict woman was driving a car I suspected was stolen. I called the police with the plate, they confirmed it was, and quickly came and arrested her with the car, and took a report where I confirmed I saw her driving it. She had gotten out of jail weeks before after a parole violation for a stolen car; and already was wanted for another stolen car; and this was another stolen car.

Her only punishment - the downside of California's budget problems letting non-violent prisoners out - was a probation violation putting her in for 4 months. No charges for the new stolen car. The district attorney's office said that she could make up a story hard to prove was false beyond a reasonable doubt so they just violate their probation if that's an option.

I discussed the crime problems with the assistant district attorney and her comment was 'you should move'.

The police had also suggested I might want to start a neighborhood watch...

 

[halik]

Really? You can't be serious.

When was the last time you heard of someone being shot for having a shaved head and wearing camo?

You mean if a bunch of aryan nation/skinhead dudes were walking down a gated community, no one would consider that suspicious?

 

[blankslate]

Ooooh odds are swinging towards the white kid being a hot head asshole.

Sadly, I have to agree with you.

 

[janas19]

You mean if a bunch of aryan nation/skinhead dudes were walking down a gated community, no one would consider that suspicious?

No. Of course that would arouse suspicion. I'm saying when is the last time someone was SHOT for being white and having a shaved head. Don't hear about that much in the news, do you.

 

[halik]

No. Of course that would arouse suspicion. I'm saying when is the last time someone was SHOT for being white and having a shaved head. Don't hear about that much in the news, do you.

Someone in this story got shot for being black? I'm really not following the point you're trying to make.

 

[blankslate]

I live in a relatively criminal city, on a street that's not a 'through street' so there's no reason to come down it unless you're going to a house on it.

That's the problem this was a gated community and the police were on the way... so far the more information that comes out the worse Mr. Zimmerman looks...

 

[Jaskalas]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2684419/shooting-mystery-miami-dade-teen.html

"When I asked the police why there’s been no arrest, they told me they respected the guy’s background, that he had a four-year degree; that he was clean," Tracy Martin said. “But did they check my unarmed son’s record? No.”

That's a sick qualification.

 

[janas19]

Someone in this story got shot for being black? I'm really not following the point you're trying to make.

Pretty much. Did you read the article?

 

[PokerGuy]

Assuming the Chief is going off of accurate information Mr. Zimmerman is an idiot who could've avoided shooting a 17 year old...

... which still does not preclude it being self defense.

 

[CitizenKain]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/family-teen-fatally-shot-neighborhood-watch-leader/nLNq9/
In the recording, Zimmerman said "They always get away," which could prove the family's case that he was out to get their son that day.

Sounds like a winner. Good thing he's white or he'd be in jail already.