Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[nobodyknows]

Why would it matter who you were talking to? The entire purpose of boards like this is as a forum for discussion - it's right in the title!

Nothing you could say would hurt my ego because a) I don't bruise that easily; and b) based on what I have seen of your posts I have no reason to respect your opinion. Your posts, at least if this thread is any indication, are facile and poorly thought out.

Yes, context matters. To quote Ther Flying Pig, "Everybody knows this"./


Methinks you are acting awfully butt hurt.

 

[alkemyst]

I really wish someone involved in the petition to have Mr. Zimmerman arrested would launch a petition to change Florida's law. Because it's the glaring oversight and loophole in that badly written law that ties the hands of Florida P.D.s and prosecutors.

So one bad killing that may end up in a prosecution anyway is enough to rewrite the law?

The law is working fine here. It's done a lot to stop lawyers cashing in on when Joey the Gangbanger gets dead and his family all creates individual lawsuits.

Interesting in Boynton Beach recently two people were killed in a home invasion. The police know the house was targeted, but not why...they are reaching out for more police involvement and forming a lawsuit.

They think their boy was the target "he is well-known on the streets, but isn't in any gangs"

 

[Capt Caveman]

All of a sudden everyone is against neighborhood watch. They are busybodies who should mind their own business.

Nobody is against neighborhood watch. It's doing more than just watch is what everyone has a problem with.

 

[Capt Caveman]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html



That racist bastard!!

Yep, racially profiling and calling Martin a fucking my excellent compatriot.

 

[nobodyknows]

Yep, racially profiling and calling Martin a fucking my excellent compatriot.

You can't prove either of those accusations, can you.

Talk about facile and poorly thought out.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You know, I just give my honest opinion and defend it as best as I can. If some of you can't handle it that's just too bad for you.

Yet, you can't handle when someone replies back to you. Too funny.

 

[soundforbjt]

According to some people's definition of "lying", T's mother and father "lied" when they said they were sure it was T's voice screaming for help in the 911 tapes.

Have you got proof it wasn't?

 

[Capt Caveman]

You can't prove either of those accusations, can you.

Sure can, as can hundreds of thousands of others.

 

[soundforbjt]

We haven't seen anybody's "sworn testimony" as far as I am aware.

I also don't see harassment. He was working with the cops and following a supicious person. Doesn't he have that right. Oh, I forgot. That's racist to do because the suspect was black, ergo it must be harassment.

He wasn't working with the cops. He's a nobody, wannabe, self-appointed Neighborhood watch guy, slightly higher than busybody. He should'nt been following anybody.

 

[nobodyknows]

Yet, you can't handle when someone replies back to you. Too funny.

So why do you attack the messenger and not the message? That's so easy even a caveman can do it. LOL!!

 

[nobodyknows]

He wasn't working with the cops. He's a nobody, wannabe, self-appointed Neighborhood watch guy, slightly higher than busybody. He should'nt been following anybody.

Last time I checked it was still a free country.

This is getting boring. None of you people are giving me any bones with meat on them, it's just the same ole, same ole, so I'm going to head to bed.

 

[soundforbjt]

which 911 operators tell EVERYONE to do in such situations, because it's SOP. It wasn't some uniquely thought out order that took into consideration all the events. Besides, the police dispatcher (wasn't actually a 911 call I think) "suggested" that it wasn't necessary for him to pursue Trayvon, and YES, there is a difference.

Edit: The 911 operators also told the resident witnesses the identical thing "don't go outside", basically. It's just standard operating procedure, nothing unique about it in the slightest.

And explain to me why they tell people that? So they don't end up like Zimmerman.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Last time I checked it was still a free country.

Unless you're "suspicious" in certain neighborhoods...

 

[waggy]

Last time I checked it was still a free country.
d.

unless you are black with a hoodie and skittles.

 

[Capt Caveman]

He wasn't working with the cops. He's a nobody, wannabe, self-appointed Neighborhood watch guy, slightly higher than busybody. He should'nt been following anybody.

Can't reason with people like him. He thinks b/c you made a phone call to the cops, you're working with them, especially when they tell you not to pursue the black kid with skittles.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Yes, context matters. To quote Ther Flying Pig, "Everybody knows this"./


Methinks you are acting awfully butt hurt.

Bwahahahaha! When someone challenges your BS, the response is "I wasn't addressing you so back the fuck off," but I'm the one who's butthurt?

You're not good at this.

 

[Doboji]

1. There is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was racist.... at all. In fact all evidence and testimony seems to indicate that he was not racist. The ONLY piece of anything that suggests he might have been is based on the tape where he says "fucking jkahsfjkahgf" and noone not even the experts can make out what he's saying. So we can make the leaping assumption that despite all evidence to the contrary that he was racist and therefore he was looking for a reason to kill this kid.

Even when you listen to the 911 tape... he is hesitant to declare the kid was black... he says "he looks black" but he doesn't confirm it until Martin is described as staring at him. This suggests to me that Martin's race was irrelevant to looking suspicious.

Having said that given the description of Zimmerman's overzealous wish-I-was-a-cop personality... it probably wouldn't take much to look suspicious to Zimmerman.

2. Zimmerman clearly was going vigilante to some degree by taking it upon himself to track, follow, and confront Martin. This by itself means I would consider him guilty of manslaughter. If I were a 17 year old kid, and some creepy dude was following me all over the neighborhood... I would be scared, and I would probably be preparing myself to defend myself.

3. We don't know and will never know how the physical altercation started... we hear from Zimmerman that he was hit in the back of the head, we hear from Martin's girlfriend that the two exchanged words before the fight started.... we just can't know. What does seem evident from the neighbors calls.. is that at somepoint the confrontation became an all out fist fight, and it appears that Martin had the upper-hand... and Zimmerman fired.

We don't know and will never know if Zimmerman pulled the gun before or after Martin gained the upper hand. If it was before, then this is pretty clear cut murder... if it was after it was self defense, but given the previous points about following and thereby intimidating Martin I would call it manslaughter.

4. The police have utterly failed here.... they let Zimmerman walk, and as such have opened themselves up to the possibility that race played a role in the police's actions. It's probably pretty unlikely you can prove the race element. But we can certainly prove the negligence part... Most importantly you'll NEVER convince the community that race didn't play a role in the police's action, and as such damage to the police's reputation has been done regardless of what really happened.

5. No matter what ends up here.. a 17 year old kid lost his life... and there can be no "Justice" here.

 

[kyp275]

tbh, this thread has devolved into more about people throwing insults and ridiculously one-sided hyberboles which ignores all facets that doesn't agree with their ideas at each other than on any semblance of an actual debate on the incident.

but then again, this is the internet

 

[zinfamous]

Stay ready Florida and other states. Make sure you're prepared.

Stay safe Americans. Prep and be ready. Learn from history the flames being stoked. Be ready.

 

[Geosurface]

As I have stated before I feel that Zimmerman screwed up in so many ways that night it's not even funny, and I have very little sympathy for him.

I'm just curious on something though, we all acknowledge that he created the situation by following Trayvon, getting out of his car, etc. We all know that. I think we'd all agree it would've been best if he hadn't gotten out of his car.

But let's set that aside for a second, and flash back to him just having gotten out of his car. That part's done... we all know it was a stupid move, but it's done. He's walking between houses, trying to locate this guy... and now let me present a scenario of one way it may have gone down that seems to fit the eyewitness testimony, Zimmerman's account, gf's phone account, injuries observed, etc.

He rounds a bend and is in the dark backyard, Trayvon is there too. Trayvon sees Zimmerman first, asks "why are you following me?" Zimmerman responds "what are you doing here?" (he should've said "i'm neighborhood watch" immediately, let's hope it was in there somewhere... if it wasn't that's another way he f'd up) then now here's where it gets into speculation:

Trayvon then says something like "none of your business, what right do you have to question me?" and let's assume Trayvon thinks this guy might have malicious intent, I'm trying to be as charitable to both parties here as I can be... Trayvon thinks this guy means him harm, and decides to strike. Did he actually strike first? Don't know. Did he see the gun or know about it in any way at that point? Was seeing it what inspired him to attack? Or was NOT seeing it what inspired him to attack? No idea.

But here's what I'm really getting to:

for those who keep repeating "he followed him, he followed him, he created the situation" if you were him at that point, having already boned it all up with those same mistakes... and now you're laying on the grass on your back and you're out of shape, fat, and getting your ass handed to you by this lean young athlete. Should you just lay there and take your beating? Should you think to yourself "y'know what, I created this situaton... I followed him, I'll just take this beating" let me state, I think maybe the answer is yes. But i'm not sure on that.

But now let's add this wrinkle: in the process of beating Zimmerman, Trayvon discovers the pistol. He then grabs for it (perhaps thinking to increase his own safety by getting it out of this weirdo's hands) or, maybe Zimmerman gets it out to try to scare Trayvon into stopping the beating. Either way... now the pistol is out and there's a struggle for control of it.

If at that point both parties are under the assumption that the other party intends to shoot them if they gain full control of the pistol, should Zimmerman think to himself "y'know, I followed him... I created this situation... I'm ready to go. It's my time. I'm going to let him shoot me." ? Some people almost seem to be implying that in how fervently they keep asserting facts that aren't in dispute, as though they were the beginning and end of this discussion.

I think there's a very real chance that both men thought the other was a threatening, malicious party and intended to kill them if they gained control of the pistol. I also think that there's a very real chance that had either of them simply curled up in a ball and screamed "I MEAN YOU NO HARM, PLEASE DON'T HURT ME" that the other man probably would've let it be.

Maybe once the fight had begun both their actions were reasonable to them, maybe it was all a big tornado of testosterone, misunderstanding, machismo, pride, fear, suspicion, racism, ageism, and stupidity. That seems likely to me. I think Zimmerman is a real dipshit, but I don't think he should have to serve hard time. I think the guilt he will feel will probably cover him pretty well, and I would revoke his right to own firearms too.

 

[kyp275]

Maybe once the fight had begun both their actions were reasonable to them, maybe it was all a big tornado of testosterone, misunderstanding, machismo, pride, fear, suspicion, racism, ageism, and stupidity. That seems likely to me. I think Zimmerman is a real dipshit, but I don't think he should have to serve hard time. I think the guilt he will feel will probably cover him pretty well, and I would revoke his right to own firearms too.

Perhaps, and it's not an unreasonable assumption.

As I've noted before in my previous posts, as someone who has a concealed carry permit, I personally believe that those of us who chose to exercise our 2nd amendment rights needs to be the one with the cooler head, and to avoid or de-escalate a situation whenever possible. Zimmerman, whether criminally responsible or not, did not behave like any responsible gun owner I've ever seen.

It's the same thing with that other shooting in FL where the 71 yr old Trevor Dooley killed an airforce vet in front of his daughter. A gun is not there for you to flash around and make you feel like a badass when you're arguing with your neighbor.

Unfortunately, people like Zimmerman and Dooley gives the rest of us a bad name, and whatever the end result is from their legal proceedings, they'll forever remain a couple of dipshits in my book.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Should you just lay there and take your beating?

Nope. I pick a fight with a gun in my pocket I do so because I"m ready to murder anyone that might best me.

That's how I roll, what with being a homicidal paranoid nut-bag that has no place in a free society.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Many think the phone call with the girl hurts Z, I think it actually helps him.

From the call we know that Z wasn't brandishing his firearm nor was he trying to intimidate T.

We know T wasn't running at or just prior to the time they exchanged words so that blows a hole in this Z was chasing him theory. We actually don't know if it was T that approached Z. Z could have gotten out of his truck to go see what the townhouse number was so he could provide the police with the exact street he was at when T ran.

 

[Craig234]

So one bad killing that may end up in a prosecution anyway is enough to rewrite the law?

The law is working fine here. It's done a lot to stop lawyers cashing in on when Joey the Gangbanger gets dead and his family all creates individual lawsuits.

First, yes, one bad killing would be plenty to fix a bad law, if it's bad.

Second, claims of 'justified homicide' are up 300% since the law was enacted.

There are at least nearly 100 claims under the law with over 60 people killed.

It took this one to get attention to the issue.

 

[classy]

Many think the phone call with the girl hurts Z, I think it actually helps him.

From the call we know that Z wasn't brandishing his firearm nor was he trying to intimidate T.

We know T wasn't running at or just prior to the time they exchanged words so that blows a hole in this Z was chasing him theory. We actually don't know if it was T that approached Z. Z could have gotten out of his truck to go see what the townhouse number was so he could provide the police with the exact street he was at when T ran.

You're an idiot. A complete fool. The phone call with the police disptacher confirms he chased Trayvon Martin. The phone call with the girl confirms he sought out and found Martin again. His fat ass murdered a 17 year old kid, he should be locked up on man slaughter. You and the rest of your happy he killed a black kid group are pathetic. The kid did absolutely nothing wrong but defend himself from a complete stranger who fucking had zero damn reason to do anything to this kid.


No insults or personal attacks.

Administrator Idontcare