Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Profiling somebody looking and acting like a criminal is exactly what neighboorhood watch people and every good citizen is supposed to do. Don't want to get treated like a criminal?

Don't act/look like one.

Don't want to get shot dead?

Don't brutally attack somebody, pound their head into the concrete, and then mount them to continue the beating as they scream for their life. Or to keep it simple - don't attack anybody. That is illegal, that is a forcible felony, that could get you lawfully shot.

Walking down the street talking on the phone is acting like a thug? Got it.............................
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
GZ had every right to call the police.
Whether the results would have been that TM was identified; that is for the future.

GZ profiled Martin and that matched up with previous incidents - profile was valid.

TM was supposedly going home; he did not.

Nothing is stating that he had to go home. He had the opportunity to go home after leaving the street and going down the walkway. There is no indication that that route was unavailable to him.

Did he go home and change his mind or did he wait for GZ to come by him while trying to understand the situation on who GZ was?

We do not know; there are indications that he may have gone home and then returned; are those indications accurate???

All indications are that he made the decision to confront GZ and up the ante.

Tell me why Trayvon had to deviate from anything he was doing? Or are you incapable?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Tell me why Trayvon had to deviate from anything he was doing? Or are you incapable?

He did not have to deviate from anything.

He also did not have to confront GZ.

He was initially profiled; subsequent actions of TM supported the profile.

He could have walked down the street and made a left at the bottom. Nothing would have happened. Profile broken

He could have walked along the walkway between the houses, made a right and continued to the back of the house; nothing would have happened other than GZ going to the top of the T and seeing TM and the end of the walk. Profile broken - TM was not acting like he was trying to avoid being identified.

TM triggered concern by taking off at more than a walk and then no longer in sight when GZ made it to the top of the T.

At that point, profiling was accurate.

TM made multiple choices; which supported the conern and profile.

He made a final choice not in confronting GZ but to take it further by a physical altercation.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
GZ had every right to call the police.
Whether the results would have been that TM was identified; that is for the future.

GZ profiled Martin and that matched up with previous incidents - profile was valid.

TM was supposedly going home; he did not.

Nothing is stating that he had to go home. He had the opportunity to go home after leaving the street and going down the walkway. There is no indication that that route was unavailable to him.

Did he go home and change his mind or did he wait for GZ to come by him while trying to understand the situation on who GZ was?

We do not know; there are indications that he may have gone home and then returned; are those indications accurate???

All indications are that he made the decision to confront GZ and up the ante.

The evidence we have shows that he went to 711 and the path he was on shows that he was in fact on his way home.

Then enter George Zimmerman. Lots o fthings changed after Zimmerman started following him. Since Trayvon is dead we don't have the luxary of knowing what was going through his head. All we have are Zimmerman's 911 calls where we can see that he was profiling Trayvon and the 711 video + trayvons location showing that he was going to the store and walking home.

Zimmerman's recorded statements of ' these assholes always get away' and after he gets out of his car and gives chase ' fucking punks ' exhibits how he felt toward Trayvon despite not seeing him do anything wrong... anything ILLEGAL ( lol ).


So that's where we're at. We have a murder. We have the killer. We have the murder weapon. We have the dead body. And then we have the word of a guy who's had his bond revoked for deception and been caught lying before.

Thats why his lawyers are doing this stuff w\ the judge... they don't want him on the stand. They want to make this about anything BUT the case. They want him off on a technicality. They don't want GZ up there having to actually tell the truth.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
He gave him bond which he posted in less than 24 hours. So, again show me a ruling he made that was fair or impartial to GZ.

Are you nitpicking about actual words or looking for the intent.

Lester got booted because of his words when issuing rulings which demonstrated bias.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Are you nitpicking about actual words or looking for the intent.

Lester got booted because of his words when issuing rulings which demonstrated bias.

I wouldn't say bias... how else do you look on zimmerman's actions?

He had his bond revoked for lying to the court. His wife was arrested and charged for that. It's understandable a judge have an opinion on that happening in his court w\ such a high profile case.

Him being removed for this is absolutely ridiculous and simply makes a mockery of our justice system. What they've done is turned a negative of zimmerman and used it to undermine the very court that's supposed to try him.

What is replacing the judge going to do? Are they simply rolling the dice and hoping for a gun toting brainwashed judge who'd be biased in zimmerman's favor?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Thats why his lawyers are doing this stuff w\ the judge... they don't want him on the stand. They want to make this about anything BUT the case. They want him off on a technicality. They don't want GZ up there having to actually tell the truth.

It's been posted many times. GZ doesn't have to testify....period. The burden of proof is upon the prosecution.

You are in an upper level graduate school course so you know this part by heart:

The defendant, George Zimmerman, is presumed innocent and remains innocent unless the jury unanimously finds him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The defendant has no burden to produce any evidence or to testify in this case. He has a constitutional right to not testify and the jury may not assume anything regarding his silence.

The State has the burden of proving each element of the crime charged beyond a reasonable doubt.

Since the defendant admits killing Trayvon Martin, but claims he was legally justified to do so in self-defense, the State must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not kill Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

A reasonable doubt is a doubt for which a reason exists. It is such a doubt as would exist in the mind of a reasonable person after fully, fairly and carefully considering all of the evidence or lack of evidence.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
And these points are going to what decides his fate. Does a jury believe he tried to confront the kid or did he happen to come across the kid? How or why he didn't make it home will also be up for debate. Here is where I disagree, his having injuries doesn't give him a free pass as many here suggest. This was still a minor.

You're entitled to your opinion however it isn't consistent with Florida law as written.

As far as I am aware, there is no equivalent to jury nullification for conviction.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
He did not have to deviate from anything.

He also did not have to confront GZ.

He was initially profiled; subsequent actions of TM supported the profile.

He could have walked down the street and made a left at the bottom. Nothing would have happened. Profile broken

He could have walked along the walkway between the houses, made a right and continued to the back of the house; nothing would have happened other than GZ going to the top of the T and seeing TM and the end of the walk. Profile broken - TM was not acting like he was trying to avoid being identified.

TM triggered concern by taking off at more than a walk and then no longer in sight when GZ made it to the top of the T.

At that point, profiling was accurate.

TM made multiple choices; which supported the conern and profile.

He made a final choice not in confronting GZ but to take it further by a physical altercation.

Same opinions. No facts.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,809
1,563
126
How is the bond revocation not a ruling?

A ruling generally means the outcome.

The ruling was that he gave him a 1 million dollar bond which since he paid it in less than 24 hours seems fair. He can have an opinion of GZ being a liar, but it hasn't affected how he's ruled(outcomes) in every instance. He could have given him a 3 million bond or revoked his bond. Unless, I'm missing something, pls point to 1 instance that any of LEsters rulings (outcomes) have been biased toward GZ.

I don't understand why this is difficult. Lester has been fair to GZ in every ruling of his despite the fact he believes GZ manipulated the system. So it is hard to argue then that Lester is going to be unfair to him in the future when he hasn't been in the past.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
I wouldn't say bias... how else do you look on zimmerman's actions?

He had his bond revoked for lying to the court. His wife was arrested and charged for that. It's understandable a judge have an opinion on that happening in his court w\ such a high profile case.

Him being removed for this is absolutely ridiculous and simply makes a mockery of our justice system. What they've done is turned a negative of zimmerman and used it to undermine the very court that's supposed to try him.

What is replacing the judge going to do? Are they simply rolling the dice and hoping for a gun toting brainwashed judge who'd be biased in zimmerman's favor?

A) If zimmerman lied to the court, why is he not charged?

B) I don't think you understand jury trials. The jury tries zimmerman. The judges duty is to ensure he gets a fair trial consistent with the laws of Florida. The judge having and expressing opinions about Zimmerman's character at this early stage was not proper. You CANNOT argue that point, the only people who matter agree with me, or else Lester would be on the case.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
What the hell country do you live in?

The one where a person can walk down the street unabated or harrassed. Where a person's skin color or dress is not reason enough to warrant suspicous behavior and be subjected to any type of interrogation.

I live in America where the Constitution and Civil Rights laws were passed to protect people like Trayvon Martin, minorities, and women.


This is not 1950 and we don't live in Jerk Water, Texas. I also live in a country where a person should able to fight against a stranger who doesn't indentify themselves, starts to reach inside their coat for something after they have followed me.

Where the hell do you live?
 
Last edited:

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
A ruling generally means the outcome.

The ruling was that he gave him a 1 million dollar bond which since he paid it in less than 24 hours seems fair. He can have an opinion of GZ being a liar, but it hasn't affected how he's ruled(outcomes) in every instance. He could have given him a 3 million bond or revoked his bond. Unless, I'm missing something, pls point to 1 instance that any of LEsters rulings (outcomes) have been biased toward GZ.

I don't understand why this is difficult. Lester has been fair to GZ in every ruling of his despite the fact he believes GZ manipulated the system. So it is hard to argue then that Lester is going to be unfair to him in the future when he hasn't been in the past.

THE REVOCATION IS A RULING. Even by your questionable definition, the outcome was zimmerman returned to jail. It meets your criteria.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,809
1,563
126
Are you nitpicking about actual words or looking for the intent.

Lester got booted because of his words when issuing rulings which demonstrated bias.

What do words matter if there is no bias in your intent and in the actions. That seems like the perfect example of beng impartial. Beleiving someone is a crook, yet delivering rulings that you would deliver to someone you believed is innocent as an angel.

Again, find me a ruling where the outcome(the ruling) was unfair to GZ.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
The one where a person can walk down the street unabated or harrassed. Where a person's skin color or dress is not reason enough to warrant suspicous behavior and be subjected to any type of interrogation.

It wasn't, unless you're still clinging to NBC's edited tape of the call.

I live in America where the Constitution and Civil Rights laws were passed to protect people like Trayvon Martin, minorities, and women.

And Zimmerman.

This is not 1950 and we don't live in Jerk Water, Texas. I also live in a country where a person should able to fight against a stranger who doesn't indentify themselves, starts to reach inside their coat for something after they have followed me.

Martin had fled the area, there should have not been a confrontation, but Martin choose to go back and make one.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
The one where a person can walk down the street unabated or harrassed. Where a person's skin color or dress is not reason enough to warrant suspicous behavior and be subjected to any type of interrogation.

I live in America where the Constitution and Civil Rights laws were passed to protect people like Trayvon Martin, minorities, and women.


This is not 1950 and we don't live in Jerk Water, Texas. I also live in a country where a person should able to fight against a stranger who doesn't indentify themselves, starts to reach inside their coat for something after they have followed me.

Where the hell do you live?

Those same rights protect zimmerman as well.

I live in a country where the first amendment protects your right to call the police on anyone who you believe to be suspicious. Where if someone preemptively attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself under the castle doctrine and the second amendment.

And I live in a country where if I'm accused of a crime the prosecution must prove my guilt without my testimony thanks to the fifth amendment.

I like my country better than I like yours.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,809
1,563
126
THE REVOCATION IS A RULING. Even by your questionable definition, the outcome was zimmerman returned to jail. It meets your criteria.

So, let's get this straight.

The bond revocation order was the order that was used to send GZ back to jail.

The order setting bail was the order which set the new bail at 1,000,000.

The motion to disqualify Judge Lester was the motion filed by MOM.

Which action of the bond revocation order do u think was unfair? Do you believe the judge shouldn't have been concerned that GZ lied about the money he had available and hiding his current passport (having given to the court an older passport that was reported lost). You think it was unfair to order GZ to turn himself in, to figure out the facts and then subsequently give him 1,000,000 bond which he paid in less than 24 hours? Pls. which is unfair or showed bias on Lesters part?
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
So, let's get this straight.

The bond revocation order was the order that was used to send GZ back to jail.

The order setting bail was the order which set the new bail at 1,000,000.

The motion to disqualify Judge Lester was the motion filed by MOM.

Which action of the bond revocation order do u think was unfair? Do you believe the judge shouldn't have been concerned that GZ lied about the money he had available and hiding his current passport (having given to the court an older passport that was reported lost). You think it was unfair to order GZ to turn himself in, to figure out the facts and then subsequently give him 1,000,000 bond which he paid in less than 24 hours? Pls. which is unfair or showed bias on Lesters part?

The. Commentary. Was. Inappropriate. And. Showed. Bias.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
He did not have to deviate from anything.

He also did not have to confront GZ.

He was initially profiled; subsequent actions of TM supported the profile.

He could have walked down the street and made a left at the bottom. Nothing would have happened. Profile broken

He could have walked along the walkway between the houses, made a right and continued to the back of the house; nothing would have happened other than GZ going to the top of the T and seeing TM and the end of the walk. Profile broken - TM was not acting like he was trying to avoid being identified.

TM triggered concern by taking off at more than a walk and then no longer in sight when GZ made it to the top of the T.

At that point, profiling was accurate.

TM made multiple choices; which supported the conern and profile.

He made a final choice not in confronting GZ but to take it further by a physical altercation.

WOW!!! I realllly LIKE your logic, an innocent person must prove it by running home and hiding, while a guilty one will not. Standing your ground is a sign of ?guilt? Logic where forth arth thou?
 
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