Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
I'm highly amused by these two clips from a video made a few months back about the case.



I love how he looks like he's straight up 8 years old there in their CGI. It looks like Webster.



and in this next one, I love how the 8 year old Webster is shot from great distance... just hilarious.



Fact is, the harmless little boy with Skittles is still an image which influences a lot of people and how they see this case. They'll deny it, but it's still that little boy they see in their mind. Including a lot of people in this thread.

When they first heard about this case, the idea that a little boy could have been assaulting a big grown man, just struck them as absurd, no way it was possible.

They haven't allowed the actual facts that came out since to budge them from that initial gut reaction. Simple as that.

Nobody looks at it that way, except you in setting up your own straw man so you can knock it down.

What is relevant, and that you never address is, Zimmerman thought Martin was someone he wasn't, doing something he wasn't doing.

He took action based on those mistakes. He expressed opinions based on those mistakes.

Whether or not he's guilty of the crimes he's charged with, there's really no question he made big mistakes.

And its entirely reasonable to come to a conclusion that the killing was another mistake, which needs to be determined in a reasoned, judicious manner.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
These are your opinions, not facts. The person you are responding to only posted facts.


It's a fact the GZ had wounds and these wounds were inflicted by TM.

It's also a fact two witnesses place TM on top of GZ mere seconds before the shot was fired.

Based on this it's not hard to conclude that GZ shot TM in self defense.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
As I've said before based on Florida's statutes it truly doesn't matter who started the confrontation. The law allows an aggressor to regain their right to self defense and by what's known in this case IF GZ was the aggressor the fact he was on his back, couldn't escape, and TM was possibly going for his gun he had every right to shoot TM in self defense.

I don't appreciate your disrespecting my deceased father, the fact you choose to do so shows you have no real argument and must resort to name calling and insults.

Fuck your dead dad. Why should I have any sympathy, or empathy for you at all? You could care less about a dead kid who died for just walking home while being black. Why? Because you're a fucking coward who values the ability to carry a hidden gun, like a fucking coward, over the life of another human being. A human being targeted by a fucking lunatic. If that had been your little brother, son, what the fuck ever, you'd be singing a different tune. THAT'S why people want to see Zimmerman punished over this: he's a fucking coward who picked on a kid, and then killed the kid when the kid fought back. For fucking nothing more than wanting to look like a badass. We'll see how badass he is when he'd thrown into general population with real "thugs." I think he'll kill himself before that happens. Because he's a pussy, coward motherfucker.


WAY over any line of decency. Your posting style needs serious modification. Please do not come back from your vacation posting like this.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
It's a fact the GZ had wounds and these wounds were inflicted by TM.

It's also a fact two witnesses place TM on top of GZ mere seconds before the shot was fired.

Based on this it's not hard to conclude that GZ shot TM in self defense.

Which, again, you stupid piece of apologist shit, doesn't prove who instigated the fight. Which you well know.

NO LAW WAS BROKEN! DERP! NO LAW WAS BROKEN! DERP!
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
It's a fact the GZ had wounds and these wounds were inflicted by TM.

It's also a fact two witnesses place TM on top of GZ mere seconds before the shot was fired.

Based on this it's not hard to conclude that GZ shot TM in self defense.

A conclusion is not a fact.

Its just as easy to conclude from Zimmerman's wounds and who was on top, that Martin was trying to defend himself and ultimately failed.

And THAT conclusion also fits OTHER facts better than your conclusion.

Of course you don't look at facts that don't fit the conclusion you want to reach.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Which, again, you stupid piece of apologist shit, doesn't prove who instigated the fight. Which you well know.

NO LAW WAS BROKEN! DERP! NO LAW WAS BROKEN! DERP!

Learn to read.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/776.041

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant
; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
Nobody looks at it that way, except you in setting up your own straw man so you can knock it down.

Wrong. That was the narrative established early on, and the fact that you think it has been fully overturned in every mind even now, is a strong indication you've never visited the forums at JusticeQuest, or Huffington Post, or watched Dr. Phil's audience when the Ostermans came on... or talked to random people who don't follow this case closely. PLENTY of people still have the lil' 12 year old boy in their head. Trust me.

What is relevant, and that you never address is, Zimmerman thought Martin was someone he wasn't, doing something he wasn't doing.

He thought he looked suspicious enough to merit the police taking a look. I've had the police called to check me out when I was younger and doing absolutely nothing wrong, it's fine... you just explain what you're up to to the cop, and that's that. If a neighbor approaches you to ask what you're doing, it might be some old busy body with nothing better than to stare out the window all night... okay, so just politely explain. No biggy. You can make fun of them after they walk away. Unless you need to be Mr. Badass and have a girl to impress, maybe.

As for thinking Trayvon was someone he wasn't? He thought Trayvon was likely a burglar. The stolen jewelry and bent screwdriver the school security found in Trayvon's back pack prove that he was. So... yea.


He took action based on those mistakes. He expressed opinions based on those mistakes. Okay... but the actions were legal, the opinions were legal to have and express, and the "mistakes" haven't been clearly demonstrated to be mistakes. Do you know for a rock solid fact that Trayvon wasn't casing places to return to to burglarize later that night? Do you? Answer honestly.

Whether or not he's guilty of the crimes he's charged with, there's really no question he made big mistakes. I question that. With perfect hindsight, staying in the car certainly was the better move. At the time, he just thought he was going to get a better vantage point to see this person exiting the community at a great distance from him, so he could pass that info on to police when they arrived or called him back. This is after dispatch said twice "keep an eye on him" "let us know if he does anything else" he agreed to stop "following" and I think what he took that to mean was stop proceeding in the direction this kid went. He did stop that, as far as we can tell. That doesn't mean he has to scurry immediately back to his truck, it's his fucking neighborhood. He's the watch, he lives there, Trayvon is a guest of a guest, who's there while married to his second wife, at least, to hook up with a third, at least, mistress.

And its entirely reasonable to come to a conclusion that the killing was another mistake, which needs to be determined in a reasoned, judicious manner.

Even if every thing GZ did or thought leading up to that moment when Trayvon was on top of him beating him was done while laboring under a host of misapprehensions about who Trayvon was and what he was up to, at that point none of that matters anymore... maybe Trayvon wasn't intending to burglarize that night, maybe maybe maybe, but he was enough of a thug and criminal at that moment to be feloniously assaulting Zimmerman, which justifies the firing of the weapon into his chest regardless of any other consideration.

If I keep an eye on someone walking into my backyard and go out there to ask what they're doing, but what I didn't realize is that my wife had contracted some gardeners and he's one of them coming to see how big of a job it's going to be, I was wrong about who he was... sure, but does that mean if he freaks out when I come to ask him the question, he can do anything and everything he wishes up to and including beating my ass to death... because I was wrong?

And did GZ know he was wrong at the time of the shoot? If he even was wrong...? Trayvon had the opportunity to explain himself and let GZ know he was, supposedly, wrong about him... he was more interested in throwing punches than coming to understandings.

Responses in bold
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0

Right. Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself, and knew that if the fight didn't go his way, he could kill Martin and claim self-defense. What you, Spidey, Geo, Spatial, and every other racist sack of shit on this forum claim makes Zimmerman innocent. That's premeditated murder in any sane society. That's the reason he's being charged with murderer, and will be going to prison for murder if this case goes to jury trial. Violent, aggressive individuals have been using this tactic for years in Florida, and being a CJ student, Zimmerman most likely knew it. Didn't work out the way her wanted it to, did it? Even Hannity won't be able to save him, much to Daddy Zimmerman's chagrin.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...da-stand-your-ground-law-have-history/1241378

• Nearly 60 percent of those who claimed self-defense had been arrested at least once before the day they killed someone.

• More than 30 of those defendants, about one in three, had been accused of violent crimes, including assault, battery or robbery. Dozens had drug offenses on their records.

• Killers have invoked stand your ground even after repeated run-ins with the law. Forty percent had three arrests or more. Dozens had at least four arrests.

• More than a third of the defendants had previously been in trouble for threatening someone with a gun or illegally carrying a weapon.

• In dozens of cases, both the defendant and the victim had criminal records, sometimes related to long-running feuds or criminal enterprises. Of the victims that could be identified in state records, 64 percent had at least one arrest. Several had 20 or more arrests.

-----

Someone we know fits many of those criteria. What's his name again?
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Responses in bold

But.. but... no law was broken!

And by the way, again, fuckwit, Zimmerman was not the police. They only came because Zimmerman requested them. Not the same fucking thing, and you know it.

Go take your fucking Depacote.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
I love how JKing likes to act like pointing out the fact that no law was broken is some sort of... crutch? Um, I'd say that's fairly fucking relevant, dipshit.

And my guess is that if the cops showed up to arrest you for having a bunch of porn on your computer, all of it legally purchased and depicting consenting adults, you yourself might be heard to say "but but... no law was broken!" and you might find yourself rather confused as to why you'd be arrested or face jail time for owning legal porn.

Or if they showed up to arrest you for smoking cigarettes.

"But... but... no law was broken!" is actually a fairly logical thing to think and to say when you're being arrested after breaking no law... don'tchathink?
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
I love how JKing likes to act like pointing out the fact that no law was broken is some sort of... crutch? Um, I'd say that's fairly fucking relevant, dipshit.

And my guess is that if the cops showed up to arrest you for having a bunch of porn on your computer, all of it legally purchased and depicting consenting adults, you yourself might be heard to say "but but... no law was broken!" and you might find yourself rather confused as to why you'd be arrested or face jail time for owning legal porn.

Or if they showed up to arrest you for smoking cigarettes.

"But... but... no law was broken!" is actually a fairly logical thing to think and to say when you're being arrested after breaking no law... don'tchathink?

I love how you pretty much dropped the "I'm a liberal..." facade, and just started being the hypocritical, disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, lying, racist sack of shit you really are. Or is it a split personality thing? It doesn't matter, glad to see you embrace who you really are, and stop deluding yourself into thinking you were fooling anyone. I love how you and your fellow sacks of shit keep hammering on a technicality in hopes of pardoning a murderer. Martin doesn't matter, he's just a another dead n****r. But we sure as fuck have to protect those gun rights to protect our pussy asses!
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
Here are the Cliff's notes on every single JKing106 post ever made:

I don't care what the fucking LAW says, I want this asshole in jail! Make it happen, justice system. I don't care how, just get it done. Oh and anyone who disagrees with me is a racist, paid shill for the NRA, and um... they eat babies. Yea, that's the ticket.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Here are the Cliff's notes on every single JKing106 post ever made:

Summation of every Geo, Spidey, Spatial, Londo, etc. post:

"By Florida "I'm A Pussy Who Needs A Concealed Weapon Law," any coward can provoke a confrontation, and legally kill his opponent on the grounds of "self-defense. By the way, we're glad the n****r is dead. Good shoot.

Brought to you by the NRA: If A Gun Had A Cock, We'd Proudly Suck It."
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
so JKing106 is convinced there was a struggle for the gun, and that's why it's murder.

airdata is convinced there wasn't, and that's why it's murder.

airdata is probably prepared to believe every word out of GZ's mouth is a self-serving lie, but on this point about no struggle for the gun... now it's a lie.

I'm reading the Osterman book slowly btw, and he indicates that GZ did say Trayvon's hand was on the gun.

Frankly, GZ has said a lot of shit about what went down.

You can draw a couple conclusions. One is, you could say his versions vary because he's lying.

The other is, and this is what I think, that you could say they vary because it was an incredibly fast paced, hectic, life or death situation where he was already dazed from the first punch, and it all happened very quickly. He took someone's life for the first and only time, he then was kept awake for hours at the police station, it all took place while he had a broken nose, and then got his head slammed on pavement.

To me, it is very, very understandable that someone in a situation like that wouldn't remember exactly what the dispatch said leading up to it, or exactly why he thought TM went for the gun, or whether TM touched the gun, or whether TM said "homey" or not before punching him.... or even how they ended up 30 feet south of the "T"

Frankly, when you get right down to it... you can pretend GZ died too, and ignore his testimony entirely. Let's just write off every thing he's said as too tainted by bad memory, ADD, lying, trauma, or some mixture of all of those... and let's just look at what we see apart from what he says.

We have ballistics showing Trayvon was very very close, and on top of GZ at the time of the shot.

We have a witness who attests that TM was on top of GZ either holding him down, punching him repeatedly, but without a doubt keeping him from getting up and away... moments before the shot.

We have the injuries on GZ's head, and the broken nose the doctor verified. These should make it clear which thing the witness saw (an attack, not just a wrestle or hold him down situation)

You combine all of these, and I don't see how any reasonable person can question that it was self-defense.


What do you think about the wording of his statement? Who in real life uses language like " The subject emerged from the darkness . " ? He wrote a fiction story and has a witness who directly contradicts his account of events.

Since the witness was on the phone w\ Trayvon Zimmerman had no idea and thought he could simply make up a bullshit story to protect his ass from going to prison.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
What do you think about the wording of his statement? Who in real life uses language like " The subject emerged from the darkness . " ? He wrote a fiction story and has a witness who directly contradicts his account of events.

Since the witness was on the phone w\ Trayvon Zimmerman had no idea and thought he could simply make up a bullshit story to protect his ass from going to prison.


Well by god dari/airdata, I believe you've busted this case wide open!


Rofl..... :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Right. Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself, and knew that if the fight didn't go his way, he could kill Martin and claim self-defense. What you, Spidey, Geo, Spatial, and every other racist sack of shit on this forum claim makes Zimmerman innocent. That's premeditated murder in any sane society. That's the reason he's being charged with murderer, and will be going to prison for murder if this case goes to jury trial. Violent, aggressive individuals have been using this tactic for years in Florida, and being a CJ student, Zimmerman most likely knew it. Didn't work out the way her wanted it to, did it? Even Hannity won't be able to save him, much to Daddy Zimmerman's chagrin.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...da-stand-your-ground-law-have-history/1241378

• Nearly 60 percent of those who claimed self-defense had been arrested at least once before the day they killed someone.

• More than 30 of those defendants, about one in three, had been accused of violent crimes, including assault, battery or robbery. Dozens had drug offenses on their records.

• Killers have invoked stand your ground even after repeated run-ins with the law. Forty percent had three arrests or more. Dozens had at least four arrests.

• More than a third of the defendants had previously been in trouble for threatening someone with a gun or illegally carrying a weapon.

• In dozens of cases, both the defendant and the victim had criminal records, sometimes related to long-running feuds or criminal enterprises. Of the victims that could be identified in state records, 64 percent had at least one arrest. Several had 20 or more arrests.

-----

Someone we know fits many of those criteria. What's his name again?

Really, that's not what Judge Lester stated at the original bond hearing. He seemed to think that the arrests 7 years ago and restraining orders (which GZ also had one against his ex-girlfriend) were much to do about nothing..........how did he describe them........mild
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
I think in JKing106 we're seeing a bit of a Moby Dick thing going on.

His dead fat, southern, racist father is probably "the one that got away" - while he was still alive, JKing106 never mustered up the balls to stand up to him, and tell him off properly.

Now he's got unfinished business and he's on the hunt for the elusive, great white racist. Nevermind that they've been hunted nearly to extinction.



"Thar she blows! tis' the great white racist at last! bring me into harpoon range!"

"But Captain, that appears to just be a regular person who disagrees with you and supports the law being followed..."

"You are relieved, FORMER First Mate Logicworth! Now damn ye swabs, I said bring me into harpoon range!"


Sorry, JKing... but we aren't your dad. You can't use us as stand ins for him. He got away, he's gone... it's going to be alright. Here, have a tissue.

And show me where on the doll he touched you, because your hatred for him, and anyone you believe shares his outlook on the world, only makes sense if he did.

What do you think about the wording of his statement? Who in real life uses language like " The subject emerged from the darkness . " ? He wrote a fiction story and has a witness who directly contradicts his account of events.

Since the witness was on the phone w\ Trayvon Zimmerman had no idea and thought he could simply make up a bullshit story to protect his ass from going to prison.

I think that a lot of people, especially people who are a little bit dim... when they're nervous and giving a statement to police, may sometimes attempt to launch into a mode where they are using what they believe to be official sounding wording and terminology. I've seen it a million times.

Ever watch cops and see some dimwhit trying to use big words he's heard the cops use? "Suspect" "Apprehend" etc and you can tell they don't normally talk like that?

It could be partially that, entirely that, or maybe some mix with this other factor...

some people just talk in a very elaborate way, and a dramatic way. I myself, personally, have been harassed for using big, obscure, or dramatic wordings my entire life. It happens, some of us are that way.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
A conclusion is not a fact.

Its just as easy to conclude from Zimmerman's wounds and who was on top, that Martin was trying to defend himself and ultimately failed.

And THAT conclusion also fits OTHER facts better than your conclusion.

Of course you don't look at facts that don't fit the conclusion you want to reach.


I've already shown that even IF GZ brought this attack upon himself that he could regain his right to self defense provided he exhausted all means to extricate himself from the altercation. The fact he was being restrained prevented this, at that time he had every right to do whatever it took to defend himself.

Of course, you're not going to consider anything that doesn't fit your idea of what happened.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
I've already shown that even IF GZ brought this attack upon himself that he could regain his right to self defense provided he exhausted all means to extricate himself from the altercation. The fact he was being restrained prevented this, at that time he had every right to do whatever it took to defend himself.

Of course, you're not going to consider anything that doesn't fit your idea of what happened.

I don't know what happened. I don't know if "being restrained" is great bodily harm or threatening with death, but I'll accept what a jury or judge says about it.

I do think a right to self-defense that can manifest itself at a particular moment, irregardless of every other circumstance, is problematic in that it would make almost any killing self-defense, given that the deceased would have killed the killer to avoid being killed.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I don't know what happened. I don't know if "being restrained" is great bodily harm or threatening with death, but I'll accept what a jury or judge says about it.

I do think a right to self-defense that can manifest itself at a particular moment, irregardless of every other circumstance, is problematic in that it would make almost any killing self-defense, given that the deceased would have killed the killer to avoid being killed.

After somebody beats you and then they're on top of you, one is automatically assumed to be in reasonable fear of harm or death. This is all covered in CCDW classes by the sheriff and AG.

Was he in reasonable fear of life or harm? Yes, from a legal perspective this cannot be debated.
Was he in commission of crime? No
Was he where he had a right to be? Yes
Was the threat imminent and immediate? Yes, already beat him so automatically an imminent and immediate threat

If you cannot disprove those, then it's justifiable homocide. Not a single shred of evidence has been shown to refute his lawful use of force.
 

TmBlackFlag

Senior member
Dec 26, 2002
308
0
71
Fuck your dead dad. Why should I have any sympathy, or empathy for you at all? You could care less about a dead kid who died for just walking home while being black. Why? Because you're a fucking coward who values the ability to carry a hidden gun, like a fucking coward, over the life of another human being. A human being targeted by a fucking lunatic. If that had been your little brother, son, what the fuck ever, you'd be singing a different tune. THAT'S why people want to see Zimmerman punished over this: he's a fucking coward who picked on a kid, and then killed the kid when the kid fought back. For fucking nothing more than wanting to look like a badass. We'll see how badass he is when he'd thrown into general population with real "thugs." I think he'll kill himself before that happens. Because he's a pussy, coward motherfucker.


WAY over any line of decency. Your posting style needs serious modification. Please do not come back from your vacation posting like this.

Perknose
Forum Director

thank god.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
thank god.

Good call, I hadn't noticed that.

I was wondering where he'd went.

Well, now we can return to a higher level of civility while he's gone. I will do my part to ensure that, and it will be easy without him here to egg me on.

I haven't seen tasha around lately either... this could be niiiiiice!
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Fuck your dead dad. Why should I have any sympathy, or empathy for you at all? You could care less about a dead kid who died for just walking home while being black. Why? Because you're a fucking coward who values the ability to carry a hidden gun, like a fucking coward, over the life of another human being. A human being targeted by a fucking lunatic. If that had been your little brother, son, what the fuck ever, you'd be singing a different tune. THAT'S why people want to see Zimmerman punished over this: he's a fucking coward who picked on a kid, and then killed the kid when the kid fought back. For fucking nothing more than wanting to look like a badass. We'll see how badass he is when he'd thrown into general population with real "thugs." I think he'll kill himself before that happens. Because he's a pussy, coward motherfucker.


WAY over any line of decency. Your posting style needs serious modification. Please do not come back from your vacation posting like this.

Perknose
Forum Director

Noooooo!!!!! How long is this ban? If it's like two weeks or something, can you vacation me instead? I'd much rather not post in this forum for two weeks and read the gold that is JK's posts than miss out.

I'm serious...if the vacation isn't long can I get it instead of him?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
WAY over any line of decency. Your posting style needs serious modification. Please do not come back from your vacation posting like this.

Perknose
Forum Director



Thank you.

Frankly posting that sort of crap deserves a ban not vacation.

That wasn't posting style that was flat out hatred and personal.
 
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