Understanding the "financial crisis"

KingGheedora

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
3,248
1
81
What are some good sources (online or print) that would help understand the current financial crises? I've read "Liar's Poker", but the only other education I've had on finance/investing has been an environmental econ class in college, which would be useful if I were a tree hugging activist, but has left me with no practical understanding of investing and markets.

So if there are articles about the current crises that can teach a n00b about the finance while at the same time explaining the current events, that would be great.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
Good thread, I have been looking for some more in-depth and higher level stuff myself. From the looks of things the worst is yet to come.
 

Soundmanred

Lifer
Oct 26, 2006
10,780
6
81
All 700 different versions of the truth about the economy can be found right here in P&N.
Good luck.
 

JohnCU

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
16,528
4
0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Just read P&N. They'll tell how it really is.

just ask dave mcowen - he can tell you how we got here and exactly how it'll work out
 

bdude

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2004
1,645
0
76
And now the shit hits the fucking fan. The crazy thing, is that there are still investors, real-estate agents, and brokers out there with their heads firmly embedded in their own rectal stew. (warning, do not, ever click the previous link.)

And then we have inflation. The consumer price index went up by nearly a percent in November alone! What's that little Timmy, a recession? Don't you worry little guy, food is overrated anyway. Where's your ethanol now, you greedy fucksticks?

And there are still some folks who claim they didn't see this coming. They're either filthy fucking liars or grossly incompetent. Let's do some math, shall we? Historically, housing prices should reflect three to three and a half times the buyer's annual wage. Now, take a gander at this. Back in 2000, the Chicago area's average wage was $38k, and housing values were $132k. Amazing! The ratio between the two is about 3.5! More recent numbers? $41k average salary and $245k average housing values, a ratio of six. And this is just Chicago, where the bubble isn't that bad! Ft. Lauderdale in Florida has a ratio of nearly eight. Long Beach in California is at at eleven and a half. It's so bad in California, that even if house prices are cut in half, nobody should be able to afford them using things like fiscally responsible loans.

Did nobody stop and think to themselves, "Self, maybe we shouldn't give that janitor over there a loan for a $500k house?" No, instead they thought, "Self, I could make a kickass commission and make it the bank's problem!" Except it's not just the bank's problem anymore. Money, unlike idiots, doesn't just fall from the fucking sky; except that it does, kinda. I could elaborate for pages on how the banking system works, but the durpa-durr version is this: banks just make shit up. You owe them money? That money is in their system now, and they can lend out this mystery moolah to other folks, or use it to line their adult diapers. No problem, right?

Wrong, cheese-dick! Our system is all about investing. With Paco's $500k loan on the books, they want to find ways to turn that into $700k or more. So they buy stocks, bonds, parakeets, laxatives, or incontinent lap-dogs, hoping these investments will pay out their own percentage. Ideally, in five years for example, they make interest on Paco's loan and also any increases in whatever useless shit they spent your money on. The companies being invested in don't know this, though. They just know some rich dude gave them money to expand the company, so expand they did!

What's worse?due to the ridiculous home prices?people believed the rapidly increasing appraised value as everyone flipped homes faster than your sister goes through the basketball team. Then they started to cash in! House recently increase in value by $250k? Refinance that motherfucker, and buy a goddamn Hummer to drive over your new driveway (recently paved with 100"-plasma TVs) while paying your new pool-boy in Thomas Kinkade paintings. Unfortunately brokers could only find so many creative ways to sucker crosseyed gravediggers into $500k loans, and house-flippers expecting 20% annual increases were running out of buyers. Only then did everyone ask, "Holy shit, dude... What the fuck? I mean, seriously? What the fuck were we doing?!" Except, by then, it was too late.

Now everyone owes $500k on a house worth $200k, and suddenly the gravy train has derailed into an Olympic swimming-pool of molten-hot magma. That crazy consumer exuberance fueled between 2000 and 2006? Dead. You can't buy a Hummer anymore, Jack. My assault of links suggests everything is more expensive now and will be even more so in 2008, so Esmerelda can't buy another imported Chihuahua; no, that bitch needs to fucking eat instead. People cooking a fucking can of beans over Sterno can't afford expensive consumer electronics, cars, or stupendously overpriced ghetto shanties.

And now all these people are defaulting on the loan they knew they could barely afford, if at all, because they wanted the American Dream of homeownership so strongly it overrode their fucking common sense. That's the "Subprime Meltdown" everyone is talking about recently. Just look at this fucking chart for a second and let it percolate. Until 2011, we're in for a shit-storm of mortgage defaults. Banks hate foreclosures more than you hate the guy who tapped your college girlfriend while you were in Borneo, because all that money they said they had suddenly doesn't exist. Worse, the bank can't make further money on the phantom cash, and even worse, their creditors get all pissy. If enough people default, banks get eviscerated, and that ripples through the economy, stock markets, and your 401k?you didn't think you'd escape, did you??shrivels like a cock in Antarctica.

And then you have local governments. Thanks to realestate taxes, city and county treasuries thought they'd won the fucking lottery, and like all good bureaucrats, they spent every dime. With house prices being forced back down, tiny Tina has to read about the American Revolution off some ratty photocopies the teacher wrestled away from a mangy hobo on 95th St. So of course to make up for the unexpected shortfall they make up new taxes, or raise ones they already have. Genius! You'd think that since taxes are a percentage that as prices and wages go up, these increases are automatic, but apparently cutbacks are only for everyone else. So, right at the time everything already costs more, and people have less disposable income since their house/ATM dried up, taxes add more sand to the Vaseline.

And there you have it: the perfect storm for a global depression. So many countries (I'm looking at you, China) own US dollars, and our imports so far exceed our exports, that our suffering is their suffering. Every time the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates, we're basically flipping-off our creditors and increasing inflation. Would you invest in an asset that's losing value? What if you already did, and can't afford to sell? We're going down, but by God, we're taking those effete, snobby fuckers with us. Unfortunately, their fall will be cushioned by the US's body. The next five years are going to suck balls, and everyone's doing to take turns at ball-duty. All you aliens out their enjoying this spectacle, I'm going to be sending you a fucking bill; there's no reason for you to get off scot-free.

One of the best explanations I've read.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Here is a really good podcast that explains the mortgage mess:

link

It is written for the average person and doesn't require a great deal of financial knowledge to understand, yet I felt it did a good job of explaining what happened.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,553
341
126
The financial "crisis" is entirely due to sub-prime loans. If you weren't exposed inordinately to sub-prime loans or the mortgage-back securities they were rolled-into, there isn't a problem. Companies like Bank of America are healthy enough to snap up tens of billions in bargain acquisitions because BOA did not give independent mortgage brokers free reign to steer every moron that couldn't afford the home they were buying into a sub-prime loan.

See: Confessions of a Subprime Lender: An Insider's Tale of Greed, Fraud, and Ignorance by Richard Bitner
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: tcsenter
The financial "crisis" is entirely due to sub-prime loans. If you weren't exposed inordinately to sub-prime loans or the mortgage-back securities they were rolled-into, there isn't a problem. Companies like Bank of America are healthy enough to snap up tens of billions in bargain acquisitions because BOA did not give independent mortgage brokers free reign to steer every moron that couldn't afford the home they were buying into a sub-prime loan.

See: Confessions of a Subprime Lender: An Insider's Tale of Greed, Fraud, and Ignorance by Richard Bitner

/furiously clicks underlined text to no avail
 

necine

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2005
3,631
0
0
Trillion dollar meltdown... just came out. I'm half way through, it's pretty good.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Here is a banker's perspective on the bailout proposed by former-Goldman-Sachs-CEO-turned-Treasury-Secretary Hank Paulson:

Chances are most if not all of the major commercial and investment banks are insolvent. Not one of them is opting out of the do-not-short list, and they don't seem to have the confidence in their survival to opt out of the L3 asset swap program Secretary Paulson is proposing.

It is also very likely that acutely dangerous systemic risk already exists, not merely from direct lines of credit among the banks, but especially from credit default swaps, which if activated by more than one large bank default would probably bring down many others. Remember, though, that this systemic risk is highly concentrated in the top 25 or so banks in the world, and does not jeopardize the 6,000 other community banks in the U.S.

Third, it is also highly probable that as this recession worsens, and as housing values continue to sink, forcing more foreclosures, the large banks will be even closer to collapse.

Having worked for many years in the banking industry and been closely involved with risk management and derivatives, I can tell you that it looks like catastrophe is already here.

What Sec. Paulson wants you to believe is that catastrophe is approaching, but it can be averted if only Congress acts urgently to give him the extraordinary authority he is requesting. The implication is if you don't give him $700 billion in borrowing authority within a week, markets will collapse and it will be all your fault.

We've seen this drill before, with the Patriot Act and with the Iraq War authorization. The scare tactics, the urgency, the implied threat of blame for any failure - this is what the Bush administration does. Some of you in the Senate were able to stand up to this pressure, and that type of strength is desperately needed now.

If insolvency is here now for the big banks, the last thing you want to do is throw $700 billion of money that is not yours at bailing out the banks who created this disaster. You'll need every bit of that money to protect the taxpayers and their deposits in these banks when these financial companies are thrown into the bankruptcy courts. You'll need that money to make sure consumer deposits are protected with insurance, and you'll need it to keep the healthy parts of these banks that deal with consumers and businesses functioning until they come out of bankruptcy.

And forget about comparing Paulson's plan to the RTC. These L3 assets aren't homes, condos, or commercial real estate that can be easily sold at the right price. They are bits of paper giving the bond holder the right to some small portion of thousands of mortgages, a right that is shared with all the other investors, who are required to agree on what is done with foreclosed properties in the pool. This is one of the reasons no one wants to buy this stuff, and no one will for many years until it is crystal clear what the final losses will be.

Once you give Paulson the authority he seeks, he will buy these securities at 65 cents/dollar, then quietly auction them off at a nickel each. It will be "unfortunate but necessary" to revitalize the banking industry, even though you will discover the banks won't be lending after this is all over to any but the finest credits. You will have rewarded the banks for their calamitous decisions, stuffed the taxpayers with huge losses, squandered your remaining ability to shore up the FDIC, not prevented the big banks from collapsing anyway, done nothing to help the community banks that will constitute the new banking system in this country when these problems are solved, and in the end made the situation much worse.

If you want to do something practical, require the SEC to go into these banks, open up their L3 holdings to public scrutiny, auction off a sampling of these securities, and apply those prices to the L3 portfolios of all the banks. In this way we will know which banks are insolvent. You won't need to go through this charade of having the Treasury take ownership of these assets, because the core of the problem is not that these assets are clogging up bank balances sheets, as Paulson says (which is tantamount to saying, by the way, that no one will buy them). The core of the problem is that there is no transparency about these portfolios and their real worth. Congress doesn't need $700 billion of our money to create that transparency, and if it shows as I suspect that many of these banks are insolvent, that's why we have bankruptcy courts. You can certainly protect the banks from bank runs while they are in bankruptcy.

Paulson is basically rolling you and the rest of Congress into giving him unprecedented power to protect his friends on Wall Street. This decision you are making is probably as momentous as the Iraq War resolution. Don't fall for this bailout disguised as the only way to prevent Armageddon. Armageddon is already here - at least for the big banks - and it needs an entirely different solution. Spend our money protecting us, by ensuring the FDIC is properly funded, by throwing these too-big-to-fail banks into bankruptcy if they truly are insolvent, by preserving the healthy parts of these banks while in bankruptcy, and bringing them back out again so they function under much better safety and soundness regulations. We've had airlines functioning properly and safely for years while in bankruptcy, and there is no reason we can't do the same with banks.

Please, please, do not fall for some useless compromise or bipartisan agreement that gives the administration what it wants in the end. Kill this proposal here and now, protect us from this bailout, and deal with the real problem - the insolvency of the major banks, not the paper that is supposedly blocking their lending capabilities.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: JohnCU
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Just read P&N. They'll tell how it really is.

just ask dave mcowen - he can tell you how we got here and exactly how it'll work out

Pretty much

Just look at my economy threads that go back many years as well as the oil/gas thread.

The economy threads have information from back towards 2001 when I brought up how banks where giving away money to the developers for massive subdivisions that then as well as now are empty modern day ghost subdivisions.

Now we are all caught holding the bag.

It's indisputable fact.
 

KingGheedora

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
3,248
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: JohnCU
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Just read P&N. They'll tell how it really is.

just ask dave mcowen - he can tell you how we got here and exactly how it'll work out

Pretty much

Just look at my economy threads that go back many years as well as the oil/gas thread.

The economy threads have information from back towards 2001 when I brought up how banks where giving away money to the developers for massive subdivisions that then as well as now are empty modern day ghost subdivisions.

Now we are all caught holding the bag.

It's indisputable fact.

What are "the economy threads"?
 
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