Unidentified federal law enforcement arresting Portland protesters in unmarked vehicles, for unknown reasons...

Page 36 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,822
10,361
136
That's the justification, that someone else pays for it. Progressive politics in a nutshell.

The insured pays their premiums; the insurance company promises to cover their losses in accordance with the contract. Those are the terms of the deal.
Or are you opposed to all forms of insurance because it is by definition a social construct where the cost is spread across the many in the risk pool to mitigate the catastrophic losses of the few?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
That's the justification, that someone else pays for it. Progressive politics in a nutshell.
Insurance is an entirely private product, paid for in its entirety by the premiums of policy holders for precisely this sort of reason. Jesus.

It is consistently amazing how conservatives lack even a basic understanding of economics. This is why reasoning with you guys is so hard, you expect the world to conform to how you wish it worked as opposed to how it actually works.
 
Reactions: Pohemi

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
The insured pays their premiums; the insurance company promises to cover their losses in accordance with the contract. Those are the terms of the deal.
Or are you opposed to all forms of insurance because it is by definition a social construct where the cost is spread across the many in the risk pool to mitigate the catastrophic losses of the few?
He, as a free market capitalist, is apparently very angry that these individuals freely associated in a private contract and that one of those individuals will have to fulfill its terms.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,657
5,346
136
Insurance is an entirely private product, paid for in its entirety by the premiums of policy holders for precisely this sort of reason. Jesus.

It is consistently amazing how conservatives lack even a basic understanding of economics. This is why reasoning with you guys is so hard, you expect the world to conform to how you wish it worked as opposed to how it actually works.
Where do you think the money for those premiums comes from?
Have you ever seen a policy that excludes civil unrest along with war and acts of god? I have.
Why do the perpetrators get a pass? Why is it wrong for anyone to defend their property against criminals? Rather than make a third party pay for damage from criminals, stop the criminals. Is that so hard to understand? Those folks have the right to protest, they don't have the right to riot and loot. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Where do you think the money for those premiums comes from?
Have you ever seen a policy that excludes civil unrest along with war and acts of god? I have.
Why do the perpetrators get a pass? Why is it wrong for anyone to defend their property against criminals? Rather than make a third party pay for damage from criminals, stop the criminals. Is that so hard to understand? Those folks have the right to protest, they don't have the right to riot and loot. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
The money for the premiums comes from other people choosing to engage in free market transactions with the businesses. Who is making a third party pay for anything? This is the arrangement both parties signed up for!

This is how capitalism works. If you don’t like it, maybe it’s not for you.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Abusing the power of govt to violently suppress any differing opinion. Republican politics in a nutshell.
What I thought was interesting was that he thought the insurance companies paying out was ‘someone else paying for it’ instead of the businesses getting what was agreed upon in the terms of their contract that they paid premiums for every month.

It is kind of modern American conservatism in a nutshell - the little guy pays every month and when it comes time for him to collect it’s somehow unfair.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
Why do the perpetrators get a pass? Why is it wrong for anyone to defend their property against criminals? Rather than make a third party pay for damage from criminals, stop the criminals. Is that so hard to understand? Those folks have the right to protest, they don't have the right to riot and loot. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
The perpetrators get a pass for the same reason we judge from the perspective innocent until proven guilty, for the same reason we don't allow warrantless searches, etc; because the damage caused to the innocent trying to punish the guilty far exceeds the damage caused by the guilty. If local law enforcement is able to prosecute those engaging in violence and vandalism without widespread violation of the civil rights of the peaceful protestors, they are welcome to. In fact it would be great. But any competent observer can see that the damage being done is happening by a small minority of the protestors. Anyone that is really concerned about government upholding the constitution is concerned by the response of federal law enforcement to these protests, not the small amount of property damage that is ocurring.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Makes steps so cops dont kneel on someones neck for 8 minutes and etc. Without it this will happen again when a person dies from an abusive cop.

All Trump has done is add fuel to the fire and did a photo shoot with a bible in front of a church.
Agreed, and I acknowledge that Trump is fanning the flames, but I will never understand the logic in protesting police brutality by engaging in behaviors that create a public safety hazard and require an assertive police response.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Where do you think the money for those premiums comes from?
Have you ever seen a policy that excludes civil unrest along with war and acts of god? I have.
Why do the perpetrators get a pass? Why is it wrong for anyone to defend their property against criminals? Rather than make a third party pay for damage from criminals, stop the criminals. Is that so hard to understand? Those folks have the right to protest, they don't have the right to riot and loot. Put the responsibility where it belongs.

I don't think rioters and looters get a free pass.

However, obsessing over stopping them at all costs not only leads to the abuses of authority we're seeing here, it needlessly escalates the situation and doesn't address the root causes of the rioting and looting. You want to stop this? Demand police reforms (such as shifts in funding, demilitarization and nationwide blacklists for crooked cops) enacted at both federal and state levels. Focus on plugging the leak in the dam rather than adding extra sandbags downstream.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Agreed, and I acknowledge that Trump is fanning the flames, but I will never understand the logic in protesting police brutality by engaging in behaviors that create a public safety hazard and require an assertive police response.

Which justifies a federal response not at all.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
136
Where do you think the money for those premiums comes from?
Have you ever seen a policy that excludes civil unrest along with war and acts of god? I have.
Why do the perpetrators get a pass? Why is it wrong for anyone to defend their property against criminals? Rather than make a third party pay for damage from criminals, stop the criminals. Is that so hard to understand? Those folks have the right to protest, they don't have the right to riot and loot. Put the responsibility where it belongs.

Seems like you know that “insurance” is a way to distribute risk and is actually paid by the people who buy the products produced by said organization. The group pays for it, but to quell these minority persons who “riot and loot” we bust the heads of all protesters. Is this guilty by association?

The other point most conservatives do not get is that the profit or income made by the persons or share holders (equity partners, owners or whoever has equity) is because of their hard work and they have right to keep as much as possible. Did they not also receive this income or prosperity from the people or society writ large who purchased said organization’s products or services? No matter how much they work, if society never buys their products, they have nothing. Do they not owe anything back to society at large? Should they not bear some of the burden of society since society bequeathed them with these dollars?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
No, I don't think he does. Nor does he know much about politics.
I honestly see how the two can get confused because as Paul Krugman put it the government in a modern sense is basically an insurance company with an army. So, when the insurance company dispenses benefits similar to what a government would do, *click, whirr* someone is getting away with something other people paid for.

In reality it’s the exact opposite - the business entered into a contract with the insurance company and paid them money for in many cases years without getting anything in return. Now it’s time for them to collect and get what they paid for. Conservatives have no problem understanding this when it’s the little guy getting crushed by the big guy because he signed a contract, when it’s the other way around though then they run into trouble. This is because modern American conservatism is not about free markets, it’s about the protection of entrenched wealth.

It’s the same reason why conservatives support extreme, hugely burdensome government regulation in housing. It helps the entrenched owners, not the little guys.
 
Reactions: Meghan54 and Pohemi

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,485
2,363
136
Fair response, although in the two cases where they tried that in Seattle, it led to the loss of human life. For the business owners who are already suffering the losses of a pandemic, maybe they can’t afford to shoulder the additional loss of revenue and the destruction of their livelihoods.
If Trump/Republicans/you are so concerned about well being of business owners, answer me this: have Trump actions of putting boots on the ground made matters better or worse for the business owners? Are business owners better off or worse after Trump deployed his little green men in Portland?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
I like how were deeply concerned who pays for damages when the general population is causing it, but don't even bat an eye when police misbehavior causes millions and millions of dollars in settlements at the tax payers expense.

And what's the polices response? More misbehavior. But dammit, it's the damn plebes fault for making them misbehave.
 
Reactions: Pohemi

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
If Trump/Republicans/you are so concerned about well being of business owners, answer me this: have Trump actions of putting boots on the ground made matters better or worse for the business owners? Are business owners better off or worse after Trump deployed his little green men in Portland?
The agitators are the ones damaging the businesses, so they are the ones directly responsible for making it worst. A federal presence is no excuse to riot. It’s possible to nonviolently protest the federal government the same as thousands if not millions of people have done in support of BLM.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,485
2,363
136
The agitators are the ones damaging the businesses, so they are the ones directly responsible for making it worst. A federal presence is no excuse to riot. It’s possible to nonviolently protest the federal government the same as thousands if not millions of people have done in support of BLM.
Let me make it easy for you - no DHS troops on the ground X amount of damage. DHS troops on the ground resulted in 10X damage. This is a direct result of Trump's decision. He chose a path, and he chose wrong. That is entirely on him and his administration.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Let me make it easy for you - no DHS troops on the ground X amount of damage. DHS troops on the ground resulted in 10X damage. This is a direct result of Trump's decision. He chose a path, and he chose wrong. That is entirely on him and his administration.
So your argument is that the only viable response to a federal presence was to riot.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Let me make it easy for you - no DHS troops on the ground X amount of damage. DHS troops on the ground resulted in 10X damage. This is a direct result of Trump's decision. He chose a path, and he chose wrong. That is entirely on him and his administration.

You mean that in addition to stochastic terrorism the Trump admin inspires stochastic demonstrations & lawlessness? Couldn't be. Trump is your Law & Order President, isn't he?
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |