Union cutting their throats?

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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Yea, that is why all the countries doing much better than us have higher union density. Not to mention that only 10% of jobs in America are union. It is the union's fault that the CEO class share of profits has gone up 50X while the workers share has dwindled to nothing? And why am I the only person bringing up actual data and facts to back my position, while you make stuff out of whole cloth with nothing backing it except your hatred of the American working and middle classes?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States

Which countries are doing much better than us?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,272
11,704
136
On the local news this morning there were already people lined up at the union office at 5 o'clock. I saw a lot of them with vote no shirts on.

We will see.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Poor Boeing...things are so bad for them that they had to receive the largest state subsidy in history...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2013/11/11/boeing-biggest-state-subsidy-in-u-s-history/



I don't know how they will keep their doors open without taxpayer subsidies...

Maybe, if Boeing continues to pull this kind of bullshit with their workers, the citizens of Washington will say, "NO MORE!" to the company...MAYBE. (but I doubt it.)

The state wants Boeing to stay and provide the jobs.

But the union may have other ideas.

The tax breaks are not going to help Boeing build the 777.
Nor should Boeing use those tax breaks to offset what the workers are demanding.

If the 777 goes elsewhere; the union loses those jobs; there is nothing that will replace those skilled jobs at the present rate. And then where is the tax revenue from those jobs?

The other facilities will be happy to have those jobs; whether there will be a bidding war for the 777; that will be up to those locations.

Right now, Everett/Washington has the inside track; but if they blow it; others will be happy to step in. And once that happens; I would not expect Boeing to provide a do-over to the Everett union.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.

LMAO!!!!! The innovators that work for most companies are not in union jobs.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,272
11,704
136
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.

This has been their master plan since their headquarters move to Chicago.

Leverage states against one another. Wonder why there is so much partisanship going on these days. Pitting the corporate sheep states against the informed states.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.

As usual you are leaving some pretty important facts.

Every employee of Boeing will receive a $10,000 bonus.
Average salary of a Boeing employee is $83,000 WELL above the national average.
Boeing stock has almost doubled in the last 12 months.

Ya, that sure looks like a failure of Capitalism to me.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.
The CEOs job is to ensure that the company makes money.
1) Dictated by the stock holders
2) To allow the company to grow or hold its own within the market place.

Now if the union does not want those jobs; there are other locations that will be happy to take them; more than likely at a lower cost than what this union is asking for or even what Boeing is offering.

There are not many states that have jobs at $40/hr with a decent cost of living.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Once again, until our society in any way shape or form resembles Germany, it's a shitty example.

You are correct about that. Union membership in Germany is about double that of America. Imagine that, thriving unions and a thriving economy..... who would have thunk it. Weirdly enough, their CEO's are paid vastly LESS than American CEOs.

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...utives_are_paid_way_more_than_foreigners.html

American executives argue—conveniently enough—that their compensation should be compared to what other American executives are paid. This argument has tended to be persuasive to American boards, which—conveniently enough—are made up primarily of American corporate executives. And big American investment management firms—also led by American corporate executives—likewise think this makes sense. Which is all quite nice, but if you tried convincing one of these very same executives that he shouldn’t replace an American factory worker with a cheaper Chinese one, he would laugh you out of the room.

By the way, Zaap, can you provide a single reason that any company should stay in America.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
I think some people in this thread have blinders on or something. They spew the same communist crap constantly and ignore the facts. . .Do you think they have a spade bit installed as well?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I think some people in this thread have blinders on or something. They spew the same communist crap constantly and ignore the facts. . .Do you think they have a spade bit installed as well?

Agent, you are the one who has accused unions of causing the exportation and loss of jobs. I responded with 4 nation doing better than America, each of which have much more unions. That is data supporting my position. Where is the data supporting your position?
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
No, I said that unions are PART of the problem. . . As well as legislation and trade agreements that incentivize businesses to dump American employees. Although we cannot ignore people like you who spew vitriol about greedy corporations without any regard to the actual facts, as in this specific case, which is what we are discussing. People like you are why we have bad legislation and perhaps why the unions feel so brazen.

In the past I felt the same, however I was ignorant. Ignorance is understandable to a point but who wants to be ignorant?

When you quote data about America's shrinking middle class and sky rocketing CEO salaries you fail to take into consideration that the reason for this has nothing to do with Boeing, those statistics are caused by the loss of middle class jobs overseas. The laborers overseas are compensated much less, the shareholders make more, so they pay their CEO more. Boeing should be saluted for continuing on here in the US, not attacked.

You are blaming Boeing, saying they are greedy and not compensating their workers adequately. You were provided with actual data that proves otherwise.
As usual you are leaving some pretty important facts.

Every employee of Boeing will receive a $10,000 bonus.
Average salary of a Boeing employee is $83,000 WELL above the national average.
Boeing stock has almost doubled in the last 12 months.

Ya, that sure looks like a failure of Capitalism to me.
So what is the justification for this union's behavior?
 
Last edited:

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
You are correct about that. Union membership in Germany is about double that of America. Imagine that, thriving unions and a thriving economy..... who would have thunk it. Weirdly enough, their CEO's are paid vastly LESS than American CEOs.

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...utives_are_paid_way_more_than_foreigners.html
And as usual, you're a dumbass that never learns anything.

Guess you missed the part about how in Germany, women typically don't work (halving the workforce) and salaries have remained stagnant for 20+ years now. No one there would employ an idiot like you for more than a day there- guaranteed you'd be whining about work conditions there in the very first minute.

Ohh, but you thought union membership was your ticket to be a lazy dumbass, not that long hours of actual work for no pay increases for 20+ years was involved!

By the way, Zaap, can you provide a single reason that any company should stay in America.
If the only people to employ were dipshits like you and your ilk, I wouldn't blame every single company for moving their money and jobs as far away from your grubby paws as possible, leaving you and your lazy ilk to beg for scraps from your precious government. (Which actually would just tell you to STFU and pepper-spray your ass every time you got too loud).
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Germany is very unforgiving of lazy people. If you are an adult who plays video games you will be looked down on as immature.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
And as usual, you're a dumbass that never learns anything.

Guess you missed the part about how in Germany, women typically don't work (halving the workforce) and salaries have remained stagnant for 20+ years now. No one there would employ an idiot like you for more than a day there- guaranteed you'd be whining about work conditions there in the very first minute.

Or he would be crying about have to pay real income taxes or wonder why all the crap he used to buy at Walmart cost 25% more than they do here. Protectionism comes at a cost.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Seriously, if I ever owned a business and my employees voted to unionize, I would shut it down.

Unions are the worst thing for business and are even worse for employees.

Yeah, we should get rid of unions and go back to the times when employers locked their workers in the building.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

Because the managers had locked the doors to the stairwells and exits – a common practice at the time to prevent pilferage and unauthorized breaks[6] – many of the workers who could not escape the burning building jumped from the eighth, ninth, and tenth floors to the streets below. The fire led to legislation requiring improved factory safety standards and helped spur the growth of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union, which fought for better working conditions for sweatshop workers.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
If Boeing can't do right by it's employees, perhaps it should be federalized, failing that, perhaps ownership should be passed on to the employees. It is rather apparent that the CEO class want to stab their own workers in the back to pad their own pockets.

A 1 percent raise every other year for 8 years..... and it's union greed that is the problem.

Gone are the days when CEOs chased innovation...... now they just chase down ways to screw the employees.

The hell are you talking about? Federalize a company because employees feel like they're not being paid enough? I can't see any problems with that line of thinking at all!
 
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