Unions make Wisconsin business an offer they can't refuse.

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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Someone doesn't understand that workers like to make money too.

I'm not surprised as you would always always always side with businesses... However I hope you see the hypocrisy in defending one person maximizing profit and not the other.

Tax payers like to make money too and not have it gobbled up vainly trying propping up a state government which is in dire straits due to unsustainable pension programs.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Tax payers like to make money too and not have it gobbled up vainly trying propping up a state government which is in dire straits due to unsustainable pension programs.

There are ways to do it without challenging the right to assemble.

Perhaps raising taxes to sustainable levels? Or just not cutting them to create phantom deficits?

What will happen to the quality of the employee if wages fall?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Someone doesn't understand that workers like to make money too.

I'm not surprised as you would always always always side with businesses... However I hope you see the hypocrisy in defending one person maximizing profit and not the other.
Someone doesn't understand that tax payers like to keep their money too.

Given the choice between paying higher taxes or giving public employees less pay and benefits than they are receiving now I think people are going to take the second option.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Someone doesn't understand that tax payers like to keep their money too.

Given the choice between paying higher taxes or giving public employees less pay and benefits than they are receiving now I think people are going to take the second option.

Given the choice between paying higher taxes and killing 200 babies a year on live TV, many people would choose option 2.

In what way does that make it right?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
I'd be surprised if any business bowed to the crybaby unions. I think the businesses would support the National Right To Work Act.

Like your 8 hour work week?
Thank the crybaby unions...
Like weekends off?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like employer healthcare?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like vacation time?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like a safe work place?
Thank your crybaby unions...

Unions gave us workers, all workers both union or nay, a pretty nice employee environment.
These "crybaby unions" gave union workers a quality standard of living.
The fear of unions forced non union employers to follow suit.
Take away the crybaby unions, and you'd soon find a lot of crybaby employees.
Non union crybaby employees working in a dangerous environment, with no offered healthcare, no vacations, no sick days, 80 hour weeks paid as 40.

Say bye bye to a decent salary and any benefits.
Say hello to the minimum wage US worker.

I think we had that once in America. It was called slavery.

I'd love to see your face when your boss tells you to count on working 12 hour work days, and tells you they will no longer offer healthcare, and to count on working 12 day weeks. Oh... and you get to do all this after we cut your salary by 60% starting yesterday.

And that smell you might start sensing?
It's just he highly toxic paint we are painting your office with.
And when your at Wal-Mart next time, you'd better pick up a few mouse traps
(at your own expense, naturally), cause we fired the exterminator.
Better yet.. rat traps.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Because we are in a recession. Reducing spending will exacerbate problems.

Economics 101.

Tax revenue will recover as the economy does.

The catch is that the money must be spent correctly. You are correct in that the economy cannot be managed from the bottom line. That approach only guarantees you will go broke slowly but, you will go broke.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Because we are in a recession. Reducing spending will exacerbate problems.

Economics 101.

Tax revenue will recover as the economy does.
Raising taxes will have an even more detrimental effect on the economy.

Taking money from the people who are creating wealth and giving it to people who are consuming wealth is a recipe for disaster.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
There are ways to do it without challenging the right to assemble.

Perhaps raising taxes to sustainable levels? Or just not cutting them to create phantom deficits?

What will happen to the quality of the employee if wages fall?



Ahh WTF?

This bill does not infringe on peoples right to assemble.
These people are free to assemble all they want, the state also has a right to refuse to bargain with them collectively.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Raising taxes will have an even more detrimental effect on the economy.

Taking money from the people who are creating wealth and giving it to people who are consuming wealth is a recipe for disaster.

You are speaking from supply-side economic theory.

Supply-side economics do not work. It never has worked at any point.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Raising taxes will have an even more detrimental effect on the economy.

Taking money from the people who are creating wealth and giving it to people who are consuming wealth is a recipe for disaster.

Making a 6 figure salary is not the same as creating wealth...
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
You are speaking from supply-side economic theory.

Supply-side economics do not work. It never has worked at any point.
Wrong, supply side economics does work.

Every time we have cut taxes we have seen greater economic output as a result.

The only question about supply side is wether the increase in economic activity is enough to offset the decrease in tax revenue and the answer for that isn't very clear due to all the factors at play.

BTW if supply side doesn't work then why don't we just raise taxes across the board and use the extra money to solve all our problem?
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Wrong, supply side economics does work.

Every time we have cut taxes we have seen greater economic output as a result.

The only question about supply side is wether the increase in economic activity is enough to offset the decrease in tax revenue and the answer for that isn't very clear due to all the factors at play.

BTW if supply side doesn't work then why don't we just raise taxes across the board and use the extra money to solve all our problem?

Because the poor cannot afford more taxes while, the wealthy can.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Wrong, supply side economics does work.

Every time we have cut taxes we have seen greater economic output as a result.

The only question about supply side is wether the increase in economic activity is enough to offset the decrease in tax revenue and the answer for that isn't very clear due to all the factors at play.

BTW if supply side doesn't work then why don't we just raise taxes across the board and use the extra money to solve all our problem?

Because there are thresholds where you will eventually drive business away.

Cutting taxes does not magically increase economic output.

Bush tax cuts, 2008?

Reagan tax cuts, S&L?

Hell, look at every major tax cut in the country, there have been plenty in the last 100 years. Where are the giant GDP leaps? You have now made specific claims about data that doesn't exist. You are either intentionally lying or just don't know what you're talking about.

BTW for the same reason cutting taxes across the board to 5% wont fix anything either.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Like your 8 hour work week?
Thank the crybaby unions...
Like weekends off?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like employer healthcare?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like vacation time?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like a safe work place?
Thank your crybaby unions...

...

You know Henry Ford invented the 40 hour work week and 8 hour days well before Ford was unionized? He did it because he was tired of losing his workers to other companies and thought it made them work better.

Also, still private vs public unions, big difference.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
You know Henry Ford invented the 40 hour work week and 8 hour days well before Ford was unionized? He did it because he was tired of losing his workers to other companies and thought it made them work better.

And, he would have been a lone cry in the wind had unions not adopted it.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
The Right supports corporations using their bankrolls to influence politics, but opposes common citizens doing the same. Glad you guys made that clear.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Like your 8 hour work week?
Thank the crybaby unions...
Like weekends off?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like employer healthcare?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like vacation time?
Thank your crybaby unions...
Like a safe work place?
Thank your crybaby unions...

Unions gave us workers, all workers both union or nay, a pretty nice employee environment.
These "crybaby unions" gave union workers a quality standard of living.
The fear of unions forced non union employers to follow suit.
Take away the crybaby unions, and you'd soon find a lot of crybaby employees.
Non union crybaby employees working in a dangerous environment, with no offered healthcare, no vacations, no sick days, 80 hour weeks paid as 40.

Say bye bye to a decent salary and any benefits.
Say hello to the minimum wage US worker.

I think we had that once in America. It was called slavery.

I'd love to see your face when your boss tells you to count on working 12 hour work days, and tells you they will no longer offer healthcare, and to count on working 12 day weeks. Oh... and you get to do all this after we cut your salary by 60% starting yesterday.

And that smell you might start sensing?
It's just he highly toxic paint we are painting your office with.
And when your at Wal-Mart next time, you'd better pick up a few mouse traps
(at your own expense, naturally), cause we fired the exterminator.
Better yet.. rat traps.


Blah, blah, blah..............Unions saved the world..........BULLSHIT!!!!!!

Ever hear of employment protection laws? Unions fuck both companies and their members. What kills me is their members pay to be fucked. Unions and high wages for piss poor performance have been a major reason that jobs have be sent overseas.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
And, he would have been a lone cry in the wind had unions not adopted it.

As productivity increases (assembly line etc) companies can pay more and have their employees work less.

Also, after Henry Ford cut shifts from 9 hours to 8, so did the other companies, they had to, competition works.
This was in 1914 too, well before unions even mattered.
 
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matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
The Right supports corporations using their bankrolls to influence politics, but opposes common citizens doing the same. Glad you guys made that clear.

No, actually, most of us do not support corporatism either.
I was completely against the bank bail outs etc
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
You know Henry Ford invented the 40 hour work week and 8 hour days well before Ford was unionized? He did it because he was tired of losing his workers to other companies and thought it made them work better.

Henry Ford was also an enormous benefactor to industry, both worker and producer.

Some Ford quotes:

"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business."

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."

"The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life."

"The man who will use his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can give for a dollar, instead of how little he can give for a dollar, is bound to succeed."
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
As productivity increases (assembly line etc) companies can pay more and have their employees work less.

Also, after Henry Ford cut shifts from 9 hours to 8, so did the other companies, they had to.

No, they didn't have to. Henry Ford could hardly have employed all the workers from the other plants. Unions were the key.

We're talking about work environment and political power not, decisions made by specific companies.
 
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