Unions make Wisconsin business an offer they can't refuse.

[The-Noid]

Also another point. Based on holdings of State of Wisconsin Investment board (http://www.swib.state.wi.us/publications.aspx) the named parties in the letter are obvious beneficial owners of the BMO purchase of MI and MI in general.

As of end of FY10 501,356 shares were owned by the Wisconsin Retirement System non-inclusive of S and P 500 futures exposure.
http://www.swib.state.wi.us/annualreports.aspx

I should also note it is possible MI was sold prior to the boycott and based on pensions generally staying out of merg/arb very possible it was. However based on some of the options holdings the WRS is not scared to stay in merg/arb holdings.

 

[matt0611]

Unions were active in the 1800s, almost 100 years before Ford. Back then employers swapped blacklists of suspected organizers, hired Pinkertons to infiltrate them or to beat up strikers and their families, etc.

Let me be more clear then...
Before they mattered in auto manufacturing.

Labor unions made up about 5-6% of the overall US workforce at the time we were talking about.

 

[Acanthus]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible in "right to wok" states, not having to join a closed-shop union to get a job. I mean, teachers in NV, a RTW state make more than teachers in LA California, a forced-union state, when cost of living is adjusted for.

$45753 average salary in NV
$60583 average salary in LA

$45753 in NV = $62981 in LA

Isn't this kind of a silly argument?

What is the average age of the teachers in both states?

What level of degree is required in each state? Are continuing education programs required? What percentage of faculty have masters degrees?

You can't just compare averages and go AH-HA!

 

[Darwin333]

This is one of the multiple myths you are a victim of.

For just one thing, why would the unions want to lose all their employment that way?

It is called "betting". Sometimes the cards go your way and sometimes they don't.

Now, why don't you do something reasonalbe and find, for example, a study comparing how companies do - growth, profit - that's apples and oranges between union and non-union.

Irrelevant to my point and irrelevant to the topic in general. My point is very simple, with private unions there exists a sort of checks and balance on the unions power. They can demand that every forklift driver be paid $100 an hour and strike until they get it or the company goes out of business. That does not exist with public unions because "the public" can not go out of business.

Find some EVIDENCE to back up your baseless claim at this point that unions are putting companies out of business.

Serisouly? I am a bit busy at the moment but if you really wish I can find a bunch of stories about companies going out of business due to union strikes. Some of the companies may have genuinely been screwing their employees but there are plenty of cases in which the union was simply asking for to much. Like I said, checks and balances.

If you do find some examples where CEOs make bad short-term policies to please Wall Street's demand for short-term profits - for example, if they get unions to accept less pay now in exchange for better pensions that some other schmuck CEO will have to deal with much later, but will help your agenda now to make the bonuses and a higher stock price - remember whose fault that is - the system's, Wall Street's, the CEO's.

That happens all the time too, what is your point? Who is the "CEO" in question that stands to get a bigger bonus? Exactly which publicly traded stock is worth more directly because WI public unions can no longer collectively bargain for benefits? All of those things exist in the private sector, this is a discussion about the public sector workforce. They are not the same thing.

Like I told you the last time, even FDR agrees with me on this issue. Talk about Alice in Wonderland eh, me agreeing with FDR and you arguing against.

 

[Craig234]

redacted for space

No, I'm just going to note that you are ignoring the post mostly, and you are confused on the bit you respond to, so there's no reason to repeat the discussion.

You made an argument that PRIVATE companies are driven out of business by unions who can demand ANYTHING - and abuse the power and recklessly destroy firms.

I raised issues about your claims about PRIVATE companies.

In response you feigned bewilderment - we're talking about public unions, who's the CEO?

You are not following the basic topic of discussion, and I'm not seeing any reason to bother, even for others' benefit as sometimes justifies it. They can read my previous post.

 

[drebo]

Starving as in losing your job and being replaced with someone earning half as much.

If someone is willing to do the same work for half the pay, you're being paid too much.

That's how it works.

Anything else simply causes inflation, adding no real, hard value to the money earned.

A janitor may earn a million dollars per year, but that does not mean much if bread is $50,000 per loaf.

 

[Craig234]

If someone is willing to do the same work for half the pay, you're being paid too much.

That's how it works.

Anything else simply causes inflation, adding no real, hard value to the money earned.

A janitor may earn a million dollars per year, but that does not mean much if bread is $50,000 per loaf.

That's a great example of the deluded economics of the right. A nugget of truth behind huge confusion.

When you are told 2 pills will help cure something, do you yell at the doctor "then a thousand pills will kill them so you're wrong!!!!"?

We hear the same simplistic fallacies like the 'million dollar janitor' in response to the economic policies for a strong middle class, simply out of their being ignorant.

It's a waste of time putting up facts and charts for these righties to argue rationally, all they can do is use these simplistic emotion-based ideological fallacies.

Explaining a very simplistic bit of inflation doesn't help the discussion.

Rather, it just shows the poster is missing the point. His simplistic position will do nothing but leave workers back where they were in the gilded age, paid barely enough to eat.

He thinks labor has some 'inherent' value apart from the issues of the power of economic parties, not realizing WHY there is a decent middle class today.

The same laborer, doing the same labor, had a very different wage pre- and post-unions, something the poster can't explain with his ideology here.

The bottom line is the worker HAS to eat and will work for any amount he hast to to do so, and the only way he makes more than that is when the rules give workers more power.

Look at the countries with a few billionares and 98% of the people in terrible poverty. Why don't they just get a new job that pays well? Don't ask the poster above.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That's a great example of the deluded economics of the right. A nugget of truth behind huge confusion.

When you are told 2 pills will help cure something, do you yell at the doctor "then a thousand pills will kill them so you're wrong!!!!"?

We hear the same simplistic fallacies like the 'million dollar janitor' in response to the economic policies for a strong middle class, simply out of their being ignorant.

It's a waste of time putting up facts and charts for these righties to argue rationally, all they can do is use these simplistic emotion-based ideological fallacies.

Explaining a very simplistic bit of inflation doesn't help the discussion.

Rather, it just shows the poster is missing the point. His simplistic position will do nothing but leave workers back where they were in the gilded age, paid barely enough to eat.

He thinks labor has some 'inherent' value apart from the issues of the power of economic parties, not realizing WHY there is a decent middle class today.

The same laborer, doing the same labor, had a very different wage pre- and post-unions, something the poster can't explain with his ideology here.

The bottom line is the worker HAS to eat and will work for any amount he hast to to do so, and the only way he makes more than that is when the rules give workers more power.

Look at the countries with a few billionares and 98% of the people in terrible poverty. Why don't they just get a new job that pays well? Don't ask the poster above.

If unions are the answer to the world's financial woes why haven't they fixed them already? Could it be that the unions are as greedy as the evil corporations therefore they contribute to the evil as well.

 

[Arglebargle]

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. – Benito Mussolini

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That's a great example of the deluded economics of the right...

Yup every non-union worker in the country only makes minimum wage. You are the one who doesn't understand economics.

 

[matt0611]

Yup every non-union worker in the country only makes minimum wage. You are the one who doesn't understand economics.

Come on man, if not for the unions and minimum wage laws we'd all be working in a mine somewhere for $0.50 / hour, doesn't everyone know that?

 

[Craig234]

Yup every non-union worker in the country only makes minimum wage. You are the one who doesn't understand economics.

"We hear the same simplistic fallacies like the 'million dollar janitor' in response to the economic policies for a strong middle class, simply out of their being ignorant."

 

[Craig234]

Come on man, if not for the unions and minimum wage laws we'd all be working in a mine somewhere for $0.50 / hour, doesn't everyone know that?

"We hear the same simplistic fallacies like the 'million dollar janitor' in response to the economic policies for a strong middle class, simply out of their being ignorant."

The number of mine workers needed doesn't change much; that's just idiocy from you.

As to the pay - you're already making far less than you would be to pay for the huge transfer of wealth to the top since Reagan.

Not enough, obviously, you want more cuts to your wealth. You'll get them.

 

[DrPizza]

LOLberals...

This "boycott" won't get past the piece of paper it was written on and subsequently crumpled and tossed in the trash.

How's that government endorsed boycott of Arizona going, btw?

I'm not so sure about that. One of the things that my son's union demands of its employees is that they buy American. American made cars, American made tools. Some, but not all, unions have a membership that is quite willing to work together on things like that. For some American manufacturers, union members make up a hefty portion of their customers.

 

[matt0611]

"We hear the same simplistic fallacies like the 'million dollar janitor' in response to the economic policies for a strong middle class, simply out of their being ignorant."

The number of mine workers needed doesn't change much; that's just idiocy from you.

As to the pay - you're already making far less than you would be to pay for the huge transfer of wealth to the top since Reagan.

Not enough, obviously, you want more cuts to your wealth. You'll get them.

Lol yes, because I was actually serious in suggesting that we'd all ACTUALLY be mining somewhere, its called sarcasm and hyperbole.

Oh and the government takes 30+ % of my wealth I make right out of my pocket every year at gunpoint so I'm much worried about them, thank you.

 

[Jadow]

They're going after Kwik Trip too.

KT is a gas station chain that is EVERYWHERE in WI. They pretty much dominate.

KT is a republican / walker supporter, so the unions are going after them, but when you look at that company, they are hard to dislike.

Family owned, and the fam gives 40% of profits to employees. No fee ATMS, alwaysw .38lb bananas, cheap bread, milk, onions, and potatoes, and they have a great bakery too.

The KT's around me are always busy, and I bet the teachers won't be able to stay away, no matter what their union heads say.

 

[charrison]

I'm not so sure about that. One of the things that my son's union demands of its employees is that they buy American. American made cars, American made tools. Some, but not all, unions have a membership that is quite willing to work together on things like that. For some American manufacturers, union members make up a hefty portion of their customers.

So what do they do when given the choice of buying a ford made in mexico or a honda made in in indiana? What is american made?

 

[Svnla]

So what do they do when given the choice of buying a ford made in mexico or a honda made in in indiana? What is american made?

Another thing, many people don't know that many import automotive brands are/were made by the same American workers at American plants. For example, NUMI plant in Calif made Toyota vehicles, GM plant in Louisiana made Isuzu trucks.

 

[CPA]

A boycott is a perfectly legal and effective tactic.

As for the hero or villain question, it just depends on your point of view.

As for Governor Walker, the guy will surely not try to run for a second term, and may be recalled before he serves a single year in office.

Willing to take bets on both those guesses?

 

[Genx87]

lmao

 

[Genx87]

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. – Benito Mussolini

Fascism is a collectivist ideology.

 

[Darwin333]

No, I'm just going to note that you are ignoring the post mostly, and you are confused on the bit you respond to, so there's no reason to repeat the discussion.

You made an argument that PRIVATE companies are driven out of business by unions who can demand ANYTHING - and abuse the power and recklessly destroy firms.

I raised issues about your claims about PRIVATE companies.

In response you feigned bewilderment - we're talking about public unions, who's the CEO?

You are not following the basic topic of discussion, and I'm not seeing any reason to bother, even for others' benefit as sometimes justifies it. They can read my previous post.

You put way to much time and effort into not responding. "Screw you" is a perfectly acceptable response around here and would have made more sense.

Is it the FDR thing that got your panties twisted? You really can't deny the irony.

 

[Patranus]

What I want to know is what it became acceptable for the "progressives" to act like 2 years olds and attack people at their homes/personal lives.

I can understand protesting out side of the capital building or business but going to peoples home is crossing the line.

Then again, I don't know why I would expect these 2 years olds to have any class or civility.

 

[PsiStar]

I'm not so sure about that. One of the things that my son's union demands of its employees is that they buy American. American made cars, American made tools. Some, but not all, unions have a membership that is quite willing to work together on things like that. For some American manufacturers, union members make up a hefty portion of their customers.

That is so much BS. States compete for companies more vigorously than foreign countries. If auto unions had their way all autos would be made in Detroit. Who would have thought that 'vettes, for instance would be made in KY? Where is anyone's engine or tranny built? And who the heck is in charge of Chrysler not to mention what is their name?

Oh, then we can introduce an even greater issue about refrigerators, stoves, washing machines and dryers. Unless "America" is North American that includes Canada ... and uhmm ... Mexico.

We just bought all US built kitchen appliances, Viking. Viking fridg, stove, dish washer, and even the microwave. All cranked out in Greenwood, Miss. for a mere $25K delivered to your door. Not my idea, but union members are not buying this stuff. Don't delude yourself, there is nothing in the way of major purchases that union members are buying that are made in the US ... well, ok. Cadillacs. But wait, if the union members had really been doing their part GM would not have needed a bail out.

 

[FuzzyBee]

It's not a ball game, get a clue.

Dems boycott Repub donors for backing wrongs, donors should stop doing wrong. Dems always do right.

I figured you thought that way, blinders-boy.