unions - yay or nay

[brianmanahan]

nah, unions are dumb from what i've seen.

if they say you can't go to work, you can't go to work - that's stupid. my grandpa got hit with that for years.

the company my dad worked at was in a union but they got out because they were sick of paying dues for almost no benefit.

but maybe some are better than others.

i've never needed one and done just fine. software developers generally don't like the idea. but who knows, maybe we'd make even more money or work less uncomped OT with one.

 

[FleshLight]

I pay .65% of my salary for nonvoting union membership. Full union membership with voting privileges is 1%. Been here for a year - the union so far has negotiated an extra 4% wage increase in addition to normal increases (5-7%)

 

[rh71]

^ 5-7% is already VERY fair, which goes to show you...

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If the CEO's aginnit, I'd be for it.

 

[Ns1]

As an employer, fuck unions.

As an employee, unions are great except for those mother fuckers with seniority, fuck them seniority guys. But if you're a union employee with seniority then unions are awesome.

 

[Red Squirrel]

In today's world they're pretty much needed. They don't protect you 100%, but they at least introduce a certain level of barrier to prevent companies from doing unfair things like giving advantage to one person over the other etc. They also make it harder to layoff/fire which is probably the most important part. Without a union companies can do whatever the hell they want. And they will.

In this particular situation it's not good that the CEO got wind of the unionization though... he can just fire everyone to prevent it from happening. This is something that normally needs to be done fairly hush hush so management does not know. Once it's setup then it's too late.

One downside of unions is when they get too big, you end up with a bunch of people that are asking for ridiculous things. Then the company can just start looking at doing mass layoffs, and that, a union can't do too much about.

 

[cbrsurfr]

It's great if you are in one. But unions (combined with corrupt politicians) have completely ruined my state. Some of the highest taxes in the nation while people and jobs continue a mass exodus. Not long before municipalities are faced to go into bankruptcy. I hear a state cannot declare bankruptcy but I think we will do our best to try.

 

[brainhulk]

well, the company is sure scared out of their pants. All employees, not just nurses, just received a 3% raise on top of the 3% we received earlier this year...

But it really isn't about the money. I wonder if this pitiful gesture will be enough to sway them

/popcorn

lol

 

[BxgJ]

well, the company is sure scared out of their pants. All employees, not just nurses, just received a 3% raise on top of the 3% we received earlier this year...

But it really isn't about the money. I wonder if this pitiful gesture will be enough to sway them

/popcorn

lol

Was the issue with the nurses resolved?

 

[Jumpem]

They are great if you are in one due to the job security, pay, and benefits. They are terrible if you are a tax payer or want the ability to get rid of people that do not perform well.

 

[Exterous]

They also make it harder to layoff/fire which is probably the most important part. Without a union companies can do whatever the hell they want. And they will.

That is a very double edged sword. Because of where I live I have several friends who are in\work with the UAW and know quite a few more. Some of the stories they tell about who the union forces the companies to keep are impressive and discouraging. Promoting a problem employee out of your department is a very real thing.

Lots of other examples of public unions refusing to give on areas they don't have to to the ultimate determent of their city\state\union dues payers (but has a short term 'i get mine at least for now' benefit)

 

[brainhulk]

Was the issue with the nurses resolved?

No. The nurses have not received their positions back

 

[Linflas]

Private sector - Sure if it is not coerced.
Public sector - NAY.

 

[gorcorps]

Not much use these days IMO. Back before OSHA and all that they had a reason since they weren't being treated fairly and things were wildly unsafe, but these days it seems unnecessary to me. The lazy workers take advantage of how hard it is to fire them, and the good workers don't get raises to incentivize doing that good of a job. A system that can't punish bad workers, and can't reward good workers is not a good system IMO.

These days with the internet it's easier than ever to find work. Companies don't want to have a revolving door of new people coming in, and disgruntled people leaving, as it's just an added cost and nothing is ever stable. So they already have incentive to keep their employees fairly happy. The idea that without a union that companies would immediately start screwing people is just an old mindset, since it's easier now than its ever been to jump jobs if they screw you too much.

 

[Brainonska511]

Not much use these days IMO. Back before OSHA and all that they had a reason since they weren't being treated fairly and things were wildly unsafe, but these days it seems unnecessary to me. The lazy workers take advantage of how hard it is to fire them, and the good workers don't get raises to incentivize doing that good of a job. A system that can't punish bad workers, and can't reward good workers is not a good system IMO.

These days with the internet it's easier than ever to find work. Companies don't want to have a revolving door of new people coming in, and disgruntled people leaving, as it's just an added cost and nothing is ever stable. So they already have incentive to keep their employees fairly happy. The idea that without a union that companies would immediately start screwing people is just an old mindset, since it's easier now than its ever been to jump jobs if they screw you too much.

I think that's a very narrow way of looking at it.

Some employers just don't give a crap about their employees. And finding a new job isn't always so trivial: you can still be limited in employment just by geography and other reasons (staying near family, spouse has a job, insufficient capital to uproot...). At the same time, unions don't have to be overly restrictive like the classic example of the UAW - they can be as restrictive or non-restrictive as their membership wants.

 

[gorcorps]

I think that's a very narrow way of looking at it.

Some employers just don't give a crap about their employees. And finding a new job isn't always so trivial: you can still be limited in employment just by geography and other reasons (staying near family, spouse has a job, insufficient capital to uproot...). At the same time, unions don't have to be overly restrictive like the classic example of the UAW - they can be as restrictive or non-restrictive as their membership wants.

I suppose, but I can only give an opinion on what I've experienced. If an employer cared that little about their employees, then union or not you wouldn't want to work there.

 

[Oyeve]

I pay .65% of my salary for nonvoting union membership. Full union membership with voting privileges is 1%. Been here for a year - the union so far has negotiated an extra 4% wage increase in addition to normal increases (5-7%)

For me thats over 1k annually for probably nothing in return. So no, I would never join a union.

 

[DrPizza]

I suppose, but I can only give an opinion on what I've experienced. If an employer cared that little about their employees, then union or not you wouldn't want to work there.

But, via unionization, the employees have the opportunity to make the workplace a better place.

 

[Jumpem]

But, via unionization, the employees have the opportunity to make the workplace a better place.

They also have the opportunity to be lazy, unmotivated, and do a mediocre job without fear of reprisal.

 

[gorcorps]

But, via unionization, the employees have the opportunity to make the workplace a better place.

A better place for THEM... and that's the rub is that it works both ways. What I have seen in the Auto and Steel unions is that what they want detriments the company enough to where there may not be much of a company left in a decade or so. This year has been one hell of a year for the new contracts for the steel companies because steel prices were incredibly low, and labor + healthcare costs were still at a level that reflected old and better steel prices. What the union was fighting for could bankrupt some of these companies quicker than is comfortable, so they'd all lose their jobs anyway. There needs to be balance, and my experience is that unions are selfish and don't have the long term health of the company in their equation.

I understand the good that they bring, but it's not all good.

 

[rh71]

Employment & pay, your livelihood made possible by companies, and somehow employees have a right to say "you must keep me / not outsource me" or "I must have X increase by year Y". I just don't get the entitlement mentality of some people.

Of course for-profit companies are going to do what's best for their bottom line. Why are they the villains? Simply because we identify with workers more?

 

[edro]

Like everything in politics, there is an ebb and flow.

Unions are necessary when the government doesn't regulate and industry takes advantage.
(meat packers at turn of the century)

Unions are terrible when government over regulates and unions get too powerful.
(transit workers going on strike shutting down entire country to get extra $1/hr)

 

[Miramonti]

You only need unions where you have bad management.

Define "bad."

I believe the existence of unions (and the threat of them) is essential, but certainly not essential for all companies and environments. It's not all about getting more money and lax rules, but insuring a safe environment that doesn't unfairly exploit the health and well-being of it's employees (which some companies seem all too capable and eager to do, given the opportunity.)

Unions have been critical to the advancement of worker's rights around the world over the years, but also at times have been their own worst enemy.

 

[evident]

after being in the workforce for 10 years I can see why they are absolutely necessary and are a positive thing. The unions i've dealt with don't seem to be as crazy as the ones people like to demonize, like the UAW though, so my experience may be different

 

[BxgJ]

after being in the workforce for 10 years I can see why they are absolutely necessary and are a positive thing. The unions i've dealt with don't seem to be as crazy as the ones people like to demonize, like the UAW though, so my experience may be different

Indeed sometimes they are necessary. The truth is that unions can be good or bad, and the same can be said of companies' behavior. It's just many people take what they see in the media, or in their own experience, and extrapolate out to the whole country.