United passenger forcibly removed from plane for not giving up seat

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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,627
126
Related: have you noticed that you are only offered money to give up your seats when you are on your way to a time-sensitive event? I swear that I've been offered cash or credit dozens of times on my way to an important meeting or vacation where I've scheduled many things right at the start. Yet I've never once been offered anything to give up a seat on my way home where a few hours delay or even a delay of a day or two would not matter.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
According to United's Contract of Carriage Document they clearly define how and why a passenger can be denied boarding. Nowhere does it say anything about removing a boarded passenger because of overbooking, I think this guy has a legit case above and beyond the video because United didn't follow their own contract.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
They could have actually hired the appropriate number of people to begin with, rather than relying on no-shows for a flight to get their own people from A to B (which is what they did in this case). None of this garbage would have happened if they didn't overbook.

Even if it was overbooked this should have been handled at the gate and none of this would have happened.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126
But that's predicated on the police having a good reason for their actions. The police can't just do whatever they want, or whatever United tells them to do. If he was threatening the staff, then this kind of response would be appropriate. In this case though, he simply refused to give up a seat he paid for. It was United's fault that they sold a seat they needed for their staff, so it's United who should be responsible for offering whatever it takes to get someone to voluntarily give up their seat. Surely if getting their staff to another airport was so important, they could have offered significantly more before it made more sense to leave the staff behind rather than pay more.

Sadly its not. Federal law says you must comply with FA instructions. If that is "Get off the plane we need your seat" and you don't you have now violated federal law. I'm not saying its right but it is legal

According to United's Contract of Carriage Document they clearly define how and why a passenger can be denied boarding. Nowhere does it say anything about removing a boarded passenger because of overbooking, I think this guy has a legit case above and beyond the video because United didn't follow their own contract.

I believe boarding has long been expanded to include up to door closure. You may have been allowed to take your seat but its not considered officially 'boarded' until all the paperwork has been completed and handed off to ground staff.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Does anyone else find it typical that with all the people screaming bloody murder and videoing it, and yelling at the police pulling the guy off...

that NOBODY on the entire fucking plane stepped up and said "Leave him be. I'll get off."

?

When I see police getting violent the last thing I do is get involved lest they "interpret" my actions as hostile and decide to get violent on my ass too.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,618
12,754
146
huh? then who in their right minds would give permission?

Well, in the AF at least they didn't outright beat you, but yes there's some fun logic twists that come with requiring an invitation to do what you need to do.

It's kinda like vampires at the doorstep.
 
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Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
524
126
Even if it was overbooked this should have been handled at the gate and none of this would have happened.

Was it overbooked? From the story I read, it was four United employees who needed to be on the flight to get somewhere. Maybe a flight crew. It was probably a last minute thing, so they may not have been on the manifest.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
The thing that really bothers me here is United is always overbooking flights. This is pretty much their normal practice and I dont see why people put up with it.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126
The thing that really bothers me here is United is always overbooking flights. This is pretty much their normal practice and I dont see why people put up with it.

Jetblue and Hawaiian are pretty much the only airlines that don't overbook so there isn't much of a choice for most people.

List of IDBs by airline for most of 2016 for those interested
http://crankyflier.com/2016/12/26/f...k-jetblue-sure-is-bumping-a-lot-of-travelers/

United is actually better than average in terms IDBs
 
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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
from the #1 trusted source in news:

The officer who forcibly removed the United Airlines passenger Sunday night at O'Hare International has just been placed on leave pending an investigation.

The Chicago Department of Aviation said Monday that "the incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."

It's unclear which officer the CDA is referring to ... but videos from multiple witnesses on the plane show a man in plain clothes violently grabbing the passenger and dragging him down the aisle ... as 2 uniformed officers follow behind.

Chicago PD said the man started yelling before Aviation Officers tried to forcibly remove him.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
This is the thing I don't get: How is physical removal even a policy when there's always going to be a price someone will take? If nobody is taking $1-2k offers you clearly need to offer more.

If they're going to be allowed to overbook they should be required to pay market rate for removing people from overbooked planes. Have fun on the NY to LA flights.

Viper GTS

It's a private company. It's their plane. It's private property. So if they tell you to leave, for ANY reason, and you choose not to, the police can help remove you.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,429
2,347
136
https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/united-airlines-drags-passenger-plane-ohare-airport

United Airlines told news media to direct their questions about the customer in the knock-down-drag-out moment to "the authorities." The officers who removed the man from the plane were Chicago Aviation Police personnel, not Chicago Police officers. Chicago Aviation Police are security officers who graduated from the Chicago Police Training Academy but they are not allowed to carry weapons. The Department of Aviation has yet to issue a statement.

Even though the Chicago Police Department was not involved in the incident, many news media outlets that didn't realize Aviation Department Police are a different agency called Chicago Police for comment.
Instead of remaining quiet on the matter, CPD told reporters the man "fell" on his face and injured himself. CPD issued a statement on Monday, described the passenger as "irate," and said aviation security officers
"attempted to carry" the man off the plane "when he fell."


"His head subsequently struck an armrest causing injuries to his face," reads the CPD statement.

So wanna be cops/rejects are responsible, not the CPD. Any video to verify if he actually "fell"?

United Airlines at O'Hare, one airline I've avoided.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-p...oved-flight-refusing-give-seat-134930951.html

Companies are so stupid. All they had to do was keep raising their offer if no one bit at $800. I was on overbooked United flight Saturday night and they offered $800 plus hotel and dinner and breakfast for volunteers to take the next morning flight. I went up to take the deal but a family of five beat me to the agent by like 5 seconds. I guess $800 is the max for United.

Pretty much. Nobody budged on my buddy's flight last week. He finally bit when they offered $1,200 plus a first-class seat on a later flight. Not bad for a 3-hour nonstop in coach haha!

I've only ever had the opportunity to do it once. Flight was $400; they offered a $400 ticket, plus a lunch voucher at the food court, for a flight 2 hours later. I ate slow, watched TV, and enjoyed my free flight home
 
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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
I was once offered a bump from business to premium economy and cash for the difference. I was on a company paid ticket at the time...

I should've taken it, but I didn't want to spend 14 hours w/o a lay flat seat. It would've been 3-4g's =X
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Pretty much. Nobody budged on my buddy's flight last week. He finally bit when they offered $1,200 plus a first-class seat on a later flight. Not bad for a 3-hour nonstop in coach haha!

I've only ever had the opportunity to do it once. Flight was $400; they offered a $400 ticket, plus a lunch voucher at the food court, for a flight 2 hours later. I ate slow, watched TV, and enjoyed my free flight home

That's very nice. I have lounge access so I'd take the money and chill in the lounge for free food/liquor for a few hours.
 
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foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
Related: have you noticed that you are only offered money to give up your seats when you are on your way to a time-sensitive event? I swear that I've been offered cash or credit dozens of times on my way to an important meeting or vacation where I've scheduled many things right at the start. Yet I've never once been offered anything to give up a seat on my way home where a few hours delay or even a delay of a day or two would matter.
Haha, pretty much. I only get these offers when flying for a business trip on the way to work and not home.
 
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