United passenger forcibly removed from plane for not giving up seat

[JEDI]

New photo of United Airlines asking for volunteers to deplane

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

At this point, I hope the guy is actually Chinese and the Chinese people put economic hurt on United. Money is the only thing assholes like this United CEO understands.

According to NPR, this is actually trending very strongly in China due to at least one witness claiming he was targeted potentially due to being Chinese.

When the populace of China is generating public outcry from authoritative overreach, you know something's gone wrong.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

 

[Viper GTS]

United is in a tough spot here, though I still say it's of their own creation. I'm not sure how they get out of it short of announcing a policy change to paying proper market value for bumping.

Everyone in this situation loses.

• Old guy gets his ass beat, misses his flight, probably has no real claim except maybe with the police.
• United has a hundred people with high quality video cameras witness them using armed police to yank an old man off a flight for no other reason than he wasn't willing to leave for what they were legally obligated to pay him.
• Police officers are videotaped beating the shit out of an old man on corporate command
• A hundred people get delayed by two hours, plus a few probably splattered by old man blood

All of this was avoidable by simply being willing to pay higher than legal minimum compensation. Clearly old guy is wrong, but it doesn't mean United wasn't severely fucking stupid for setting this situation up and lighting the fuse.

Viper GTS

 

[ponyo]

According to NPR, this is actually trending very strongly in China due to at least one witness claiming he was targeted potentially due to being Chinese.

When the populace of China is generating public outcry from authoritative overreach, you know something's gone wrong.

Chinese nationalism can be very strong. Chinese people have effectively boycotted South Korea over THAAD missile system. From what I hear, Chinese tourists are refusing to come to South Korea or purchase South Korean goods. I read Chinese passengers on cruise ships are refusing to leave the ships when docked at South Korean port. Chinese tourism boycott is hurting South Korea right now.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chin...ott-protests-over-thaad-missile-system-2017-3

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

All of this was avoidable by simply being willing to pay higher than legal minimum compensation. Clearly old guy is wrong, but it doesn't mean United wasn't severely fucking stupid for setting this situation up and lighting the fuse.

Or sending the necessary United employees on another flight/airline.

Also, if old guy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

[JEDI]

Everyone in this situation loses.

• Old guy gets his ass beat, misses his flight, probably has no real claim except maybe with the police.
• United has a hundred people with high quality video cameras witness them using armed police to yank an old man off a flight for no other reason than he wasn't willing to leave for what they were legally obligated to pay him.
• Police officers are videotaped beating the shit out of an old man on corporate command
• A hundred people get delayed by two hours, plus a few probably splattered by old man blood

All of this was avoidable by simply being willing to pay higher than legal minimum compensation. Clearly old guy is wrong, but it doesn't mean United wasn't severely fucking stupid for setting this situation up and lighting the fuse.

Viper GTS

1) I read in a comment that the old guy doctor was allowed back on board.
since the flight was delayed 2hrs to clean up the doc's blood, the flight crew that had to be on that flight was no longer necessary.

2) the airport mall cops that removed the doc are not armed

 

[Viper GTS]

Or sending the necessary United employees on another flight/airline.

Also, if old guy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

That too I guess. Either way a trivial amount of money could have fixed this. I'd bet you'd find lots of takers in the $2k range per seat, when you start talking a couple weeks take home for the average person people will pay attention.

1) I read that the old guy doctor was allowed back on board.
since the flight was delayed 2hrs to clean up the doc's blood, the flight crew that had to be on that flight was no longer necessary.

2) the airport rent-a-cops that removed the doc are not armed

There's what appears to be a holster clearly visible in (one of) the video. Maybe it's not, but in the context of security/police it looks bad.

http://imgur.com/a/rDRJN

Other news stories say unarmed so it must not be.

Viper GTS

 

[tynopik]

what they really need are security officers who are better trained in physical submissions and compliance holds. This was no giant muscle-bound man, there's no reason they couldn't forcibly remove him safely and efficiently

 

[Eug]

The fact he was chosen has nothing to do with his being Chinese.

That said, I suspect some Chinese (and others) will believe it is racially motivated.

This is about some really poor corporate-driven decisions being made leading to a senior being beat up, not a hate crime.

 

[Ns1]

For sure corporate bookings through United at my company just plummeted.

 

[purbeast0]

Why couldn't the crew be put on another flight? Like one going to the same destination on another airline? Seems it would probably be cheaper than $800 too if it was domestic.

 

[Thebobo]

what they really need are security officers who are better trained in physical submissions and compliance holds. This was no giant muscle-bound man, there's no reason they couldn't forcibly remove him safely and efficiently

So you are saying send in a meat head to manhandle the passenger out? How would that be any better?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The fact he was chosen has nothing to do with his being Chinese.

That said, I suspect some Chinese (and others) will believe it is racially motivated.

This is about some really poor corporate-driven decisions being made leading to a senior being beat up, not a hate crime.

The fact is, we don't know why he specifically was targeted. A pessimistic person might point out that he appeared to be old, and a foreigner, therefore less likely to cause a stink than a young person who is more likely to resist, or an American who has a higher expectation of rights.

 

[Eug]

The fact is, we don't know why he specifically was targeted. A pessimistic person might point out that he appeared to be old, and a foreigner, therefore less likely to cause a stink than a young person who is more likely to resist, or an American who has a higher expectation of rights.

As far as we know, he was likely an American (and they might know that too if he had brought his passport).

Also, there is no indication by anyone that all 4 people asked to leave were "foreigners".

 

[tynopik]

So you are saying send in a meat head to manhandle the passenger out? How would that be any better?

where did i say meathead? I said better trained. you don't have to be huge to safely and effectively control most people, you just have to know what you're doing (which these clowns clearly didn't)

as to how it would be better? do i really have to explain that? They could remove him without injuring him and causing a giant scene that wiped a billion dollars off the company's valuation

 

[ponyo]

So how many people are going to cry and run away in terror the next time they're at the airport and the gate attendant says they will try their best to re-accommodate you?

 

[tynopik]

So how many people are going to cry and run away in terror the next time they're at the airport and the gate attendant says they will try their best to re-accommodate you?

more like how many people are going to feel emboldened to act like assholes since they know the company won't dare risk a repeat incident

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

As far as we know, he was likely an American (and they might know that too if he had brought his passport).

Also, there is no indication by anyone that all 4 people asked to leave were "foreigners".

Of course not, but if the airline is looking to bump people, you pick the soft targets to attempt to not cause an incident. It *could* have been profiling. We don't know.

 

[ponyo]

more like how many people are going to feel emboldened to act like assholes since they know the company won't dare risk a repeat incident

I hope everyone does the same going forward. Unlawful policies need to be changed and this man with his actions and United with their stupidity might just be the catalyst.

 

[tynopik]

I hope everyone does the same going forward. Unlawful policies need to be changed and this man with his actions and United with their stupidity might just be the catalyst.

you're missing the point

it's not JUST about overbooking

it's about anything

screaming at the flight attendant for not having your favorite snack? repeatedly kicking the seat in front of you? loudly talking on your phone all the time?

i don't care, i'll do what i wanna, you don't dare lift a finger to stop me

people are going to feel free to just be pure assholes on planes and we all (the traveling public) are going to suffer

 

[GagHalfrunt]

The fact he was chosen has nothing to do with his being Chinese.

How the fuck can you make that assertion? You have no clue as to why he was really chosen.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

you're missing the point

it's not JUST about overbooking

it's about anything

screaming at the flight attendant for not having your favorite snack? repeatedly kicking the seat in front of you? loudly talking on your phone all the time?

i don't care, i'll do what i wanna, you don't dare lift a finger to stop me

people are going to feel free to just be pure assholes on planes and we all (the traveling public) are going to suffer

You're building a strawman of potentiality to object to outcry about a senior being beaten on an aircraft, so an airline could save a grand.

 

[tynopik]

You're building a strawman of potentiality to object to outcry about a senior being beaten on an aircraft, so an airline could save a grand.

WTF

i'm not defending a senior being beaten

whether it was all his fault or it was all the airline's fault or it was all airport security's fault is irrelevant to my point

it happened, and since it did, we can expect certain things to happen, namely airlines are going to be scared to touch people and people know the airlines are going to be scared to touch them.

combine these two FACTS and the results are entirely predictable

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

WTF

i'm not defending a senior being beaten

however, since it did happen, i'm pointing out some of the negative consequences that are going to happen and affect everyone else

Fair enough. It's still a straw-man though, and you can't state definitively it 'is going to happen'. Most people are surprisingly rational and perfectly willing to sit on-ass for the duration of their flight without raising a stink, as long as nobody tries to drag them off the plane.