United passenger forcibly removed from plane for not giving up seat

[Eug]

And to reiterate, the Chicago Department of Aviation has placed one of those officers on leave, because they thought his actions may be inappropriate/excessive.

And also:

Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky called on United Airlines to "immediately change their policy and give full restitution and compensation to the victim."

"This use of excessive force is absolutely unacceptable," Schakowsky said in a statement Monday afternoon. "The response from United Airlines has been brazenly inadequate – their apology over having to ‘re-accommodate’ passengers is completely insulting, and their attempt to pass the buck by blaming the Chicago Police Department for the incident demonstrates that they do not understand the gravity of this incident.

 

[Exterous]

There is a fair amount of overlap for major destinations. United will lose big there IMO.

Jet Blue, for instance, just shot up in the pecking order if it's true they don't overbook their flights.

Except you have more of a chance getting an IDB with Jetblue since they've been having to swap out A321s for a A320s and needing to bump 50 passengers because they have a small fleet with less spare aircraft than the big players. They had almost as many IDBs last year as United despite carrying 2/5 the passengers.

This whole deal of overbooking flights should be illegal. How can you sell more of a product and not be able to provide it? The overbooked people still had to pay for a ticket. It would be like an online store only sending you half your order because they don't have the ability to actually supply what you ordered, but still charged you for it.

Given that a grand total of 0.04% of passengers are involuntarily denied seats its not typically a big deal. Airlines are more likely to be flexible with last minute changes due to a passenger's mistakes, personal emergencies etc if they know they can still get revenue for a seat. Get rid of overbooking and I'd expect we'd see an increase in change fees\lowered discretion on waving fees.

Stupid idiots at United should have taken inconsideration the elderly, children and handicapped but no. WTF is wrong with people.

You can thank the FAA for that. The airlines are allowed no leeway in considering who to remove from a flight or not - they must conform to written rules for IDBs so to protect themselves from litigation or FAA fines they have removed GAs and FAs from the process. The computer decides based on fare bucket, ticket price, status level and probably a few other qualifications. Minors are not allowed to be removed but I'm not sure about handicapped.

 

[Exterous]

"This use of excessive force is absolutely unacceptable," Schakowsky said in a statement Monday afternoon. "The response from United Airlines has been brazenly inadequate – their apology over having to ‘re-accommodate’ passengers is completely insulting, and their attempt to pass the buck by blaming the Chicago Police Department for the incident demonstrates that they do not understand the gravity of this incident.

Just another politician trying to score political points IMO. While it certainly could have been handled better I'm pretty sure United did not tell the CDA to use excessive force. Just because you call the police that doesn't mean you're responsible for the actions of the police when they arrive

 

[Eug]

Just another politician trying to score political points IMO. While it certainly could have been handled better I'm pretty sure United did not tell the CDA to use excessive force. Just because you call the police that doesn't mean you're responsible for the actions of the police when they arrive

Again, this was United's own doing. They made two key mistakes, according to the pundits.

1) They were asking for volunteers AFTER paying customers were already given boarding passes, and AFTER they had boarded the plane and were already in their seats.

2) They cheaped out with a maximum offer of $800. Nobody bit, because all felt it was not enough.

And then after this senior's head got bashed, United's corporate leadership had the gall to issue a statement caked in lawyer-speak that just served to further inflame the whole situation.

Regardless if you think what was done was legal or not, I am pretty sure the victim will get a payout. This will be an interesting case study in university business courses as soon as this coming academic year too.

 

[Sonikku]

If they fight this tooth and nail they might be able to get this dismissed in court, but I'm imagining that they'll bury this with a quick settlement so it isn't in the headlines constantly for months or years.

 

[Eug]

If they fight this tooth and nail they might be able to get this dismissed in court, but I'm imagining that they'll bury this with a quick settlement so it isn't in the headlines constantly for months or years.

Exactly. The money saved by a court ruling in their favour wouldn't be worth the years of negative PR.

 

[Capt Caveman]

 

[elitejp]

Just another politician trying to score political points IMO. While it certainly could have been handled better I'm pretty sure United did not tell the CDA to use excessive force. Just because you call the police that doesn't mean you're responsible for the actions of the police when they arrive

Exactly. Politicians could care less unless it brings them more votes.
I just read this one yahoo and thought for sure atot would have a thread started.

Heres my opinion. The flight cant take off until they get the overboarding taken care of. This guy is randomly picked. Just do a PA announcement and tell everyone on board that the plane cant take off until this guy voluntarily leaves the airplane. Then lets see what kid of violence occurs when the passengers have already waited a couple of hours and still cant take off.

 

[ponyo]

You can thank the FAA for that. The airlines are allowed no leeway in considering who to remove from a flight or not - they must conform to written rules for IDBs so to protect themselves from litigation or FAA fines they have removed GAs and FAs from the process. The computer decides based on fare bucket, ticket price, status level and probably a few other qualifications. Minors are not allowed to be removed but I'm not sure about handicapped.

"While it is legal for airlines to involuntarily bump passengers from an oversold flight when there are not enough volunteers, it is the airline's responsibility to determine its own fair boarding priorities," a DOT spokesperson said in a statement.

 

[elitejp]

"While it is legal for airlines to involuntarily bump passengers from an oversold flight when there are not enough volunteers, it is the airline's responsibility to determine its own fair boarding priorities," a DOT spokesperson said in a statement.

Honestly would it really matter? No matter what the policy is someone will think its unfair.

 

[ponyo]

Honestly would it really matter? No matter what the policy is someone will think its unfair.

Who said anything about fair or unfair? You can be unfair but compassionate. The culture at United is ugly. And the CEO is to be blamed. He's the asshole in charge. You can read from his statements he doesn't give a shit about his customers/passengers.

 

[DCal430]

According yo eye witnesses on the plane another passenger offered to get off for $1,600, the crew laughed in their faces and said $800 was the max. Total disaster that could have been avoided if united used some common sense.

 

[Exterous]

Again, this was United's own doing. They made two key mistakes, according to the pundits.

1) They were asking for volunteers AFTER paying customers were already given boarding passes, and AFTER they had boarded the plane and were already in their seats.

Well first they ask for volunteers all the time after boarding passes are issued. In fact I would hazard to guess thats when the majority of volunteers are sought since you need a BP to be at the gate. There are plenty of cases where people have been removed from flights after they are in their seats too - whether from a ticketing error, GA issue etc. I don't think there has ever been a court case regarding this but I believe the official terminology does not refer to a plane and its passengers as 'boarded' until the passenger manifest is handed off and the door closed.

2) They cheaped out with a maximum offer of $800. Nobody bit, because all felt it was not enough.

That is not a unique scenario - there is a reason all the airlines have IDBs listed for their flights. If everyone accepted there wouldn't be an IDB category

"While it is legal for airlines to involuntarily bump passengers from an oversold flight when there are not enough volunteers, it is the airline's responsibility to determine its own fair boarding priorities," a DOT spokesperson said in a statement.

None of that conflicts with my statement. The airlines must conform to the written rules or risk fines. They can decide some small things like how elites are handled but much is mandated (like not removing minors, compensation limits etc) and it all has to be spelled out and followed.

 

[ponyo]

If they can exclude first class passengers, pregnant women, and children, they can exclude senior citizens.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wow I actually just watched the video, this is brutal. They arn't kidding when they say assaulted. The guy was bleeding and everything and was dragged out barley conscious after being slammed into the arm rest. Everybody involved should be in jail for assault or accessory to the crime (such as whoever ordered it to take place). If a passenger assaulted a flight attendant or other crew in that same way it would probably be ruled as terrorism or at very least involve legal action. But because it's authorities that did it then of course they just get a paid vacation. So sick of this double standard.

Given they were offering money I'm surprised out of a whole plane nobody was able to take the $800, though that's not really that much when you think about it, because a typical hotel is going to run you about $200, maybe even $300 being last minute and in a big city. Then you still need to buy another ticket and hope there is a seat the next day, that can easily hit a couple hundred there too.

But when people need to be at work the next day, they NEED to get home, there's no if or but about it. Though when traveling by plane it's probably a good idea to plan to be off a few extra days in case if delays etc.

 

[Exterous]

If they can exclude first class passengers, pregnant women, and children, they can exclude senior citizens.

I'm not sure they exclude first class passengers or pregnant women. I believe they do it solely on fare paid and I don't believe status is taken into account

 

[Red Squirrel]

Perhaps when they do force remove people they can take into account which passengers are leaving from their home airport. It's a bit less inconvenient for those to be stuck there as they can at least go back home, than those who are heading back home or in the middle of a connecting flight. Also take into account leisure vs business. So you miss out on Disney World, yeah that seriously blows, but a business guy heading to an important meeting and ends up not making it is going to get fired.

 

[Exterous]

Then you still need to buy another ticket and hope there is a seat the next day, that can easily hit a couple hundred there too.

Its voucher + accommodation on the next available flight to your destination

 

[Red Squirrel]

Its voucher + accommodation on the next available flight to your destination

On top of the money they give? That seems like a better deal if that's the case. For someone traveling for leisure it's probably not that huge of a deal to stay overnight if they cover everything plus give you cash.

 

[ponyo]

I'm not sure they exclude first class passengers or pregnant women. I believe they do it solely on fare paid and I don't believe status is taken into account

Based on fares paid= first class excluded. Based on frequent flyer miles= first class excluded. Pregnant women might not be excluded because they don't know who's pregnant or not but once they find out, you think they're going to beat up pregnant woman? Actually, United might.

 

[MrSquished]

I'm pretty sure the term used for people that want to give up their seat is 'volunteer'. This doesn't sound like a volunteering situation at all.

 

[Svnla]

ABC Nightline News is running this story and United said the flight was not overbooked but they needed 4 seats for their crew members to get to Kentucky for work. In an internal memo, United claimed that the old guy was asked several times but he became belligerent.

Keep spinning United. I hope the old guy would get a lawyer and get a good payout.

 

[MrSquished]

ABC Nightline News is running this story and United said the flight was not overbooked but they needed 4 seats for their crew members to get to Kentucky for work. In an internal memo, United claimed that the old guy was asked several times but he became belligerent.

Keep spinning United. I hope the old guy would get a lawyer and get a good payout.

Sounds like United had a dollars and cents situation going on. They needed the crew members in Kentucky to make a flight work, and that was worth much much more than one customer's inconvenience. So they treated the passenger like a 2nd class citizen and expected it to just fly over well. Fuckers.

 

[Svnla]

United point of view about the incident = http://www.businessinsider.com/united-airlines-ceo-letter-employee-2017-4

Hummm...." re-accommodate"? Really? That's now how I understand the word re-accommodate from the dictionary.

How airlines pick which passenger(s) = http://www.businessinsider.com/how-airline-choose-who-kick-off-flight-united-american-delta-2017-4

Another passenger says the old guy was a sweet person = http://www.businessinsider.com/united-passenger-dragged-off-flight-cnn-2017-4

Department of Transportation is looking at this = http://www.businessinsider.com/depa...ited-airlines-passenger-dragged-flight-2017-4

Stay tuned.

 

[who?]

You can't get through security without a boarding pass and the boarding passes are all issued at the airport of origination so having a boarding pass is meaningless and the only place to communicate with all of those passengers at once is at the gate. The stupid part was not getting the bumping done before they let passengers board.