United passenger forcibly removed from plane for not giving up seat

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Yes I was definitely intrigued by this. Usually they drag these things out in the courts forever. I think this leans towards United paid a really pretty penny.

I'd love to know the dollar figure but I'm with you, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it's freaking huge.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,969
20,227
136
I'd love to know the dollar figure but I'm with you, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it's freaking huge.

Yah mon. It's like as if the Doctor's team just threw a dollar amount out and United made a meek counteroffer so they just took it.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
They want this gone ASAP, they probably took the first offer his lawyer threw at him even though it was way higher than they could have eventually settled for had they drug it out and negotiated. They are hoping that this will be out of the news fairly soon now.

Yup. I reckon upper management of UA would rather do whatever it takes to get this matter behind them and move on. No way in hell they will win this (PR, public opinion, good will, customer response) if they drag this out in court and fight.

Note the old guy's lawyer (very well know in Chicago area) good words toward UA. Money (in this case, big money) does indeed heal all wounds.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
Trying to solve this by making it illegal to deplane customers is not the answer. Unless civil rights are being violated, business should be able to refuse service as they see fit. A declined customer refusing to leave is trespassing, and then law enforcement is called and force is used to remove them if they continue to refuse to leave.

A business should be able to refuse service as they see fit. I agree. But, UA did not refuse service they breached a contract.

Do you believe a business should be able to back out of a contract once entered? For more profit?

Would you consider renting a motel room, going to the room and then have the owner come to kick you out because he get a better price for the room similar? If not, why not? He paid UA for a seat on that flight. The time for UA to back out was before boarding. Even though that is also a breach. This was not a "overbooking" case.

Then sending what amounts to corporate thugs that watched a Police training video once upon a time to use violence to remove him.

You keep using "trespassing". If I rent an apartment pay rent on time and don't break the rules. Am I trespassing if the owner wants me out so his nephew can have the place?


.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Yup. I reckon upper management of UA would rather do whatever it takes to get this matter behind them and move on. No way in hell they will win this (PR, public opinion, good will, customer response) if they drag this out in court and fight.

Note the old guy's lawyer (very well know in Chicago area) good words toward UA. Money (in this case, big money) does indeed heal all wounds.

Damn right it does, I'd love to change spots with that guy. I would be surprised if he got less than $10 million and potentially a hellofa lot more.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Mass email to every United MilegagePlus member:

Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines


wow,, United CEO's mea culpa
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
A business should be able to refuse service as they see fit. I agree. But, UA did not refuse service they breached a contract.

Do you believe a business should be able to back out of a contract once entered? For more profit?

Would you consider renting a motel room, going to the room and then have the owner come to kick you out because he get a better price for the room similar? If not, why not? He paid UA for a seat on that flight. The time for UA to back out was before boarding. Even though that is also a breach. This was not a "overbooking" case.

Then sending what amounts to corporate thugs that watched a Police training video once upon a time to use violence to remove him.

You keep using "trespassing". If I rent an apartment pay rent on time and don't break the rules. Am I trespassing if the owner wants me out so his nephew can have the place?

Nice try, but renting a home or apartment is protected under the law and there is a legal process that must be followed to evict a tenant. Buying a ticket for a flight is not even close to the same. Once the airline feels they have whatever reason to deny you service you are trespassing if you refuse to deplane. If you feel they did not have reason to deny you service or think it a breach of contract then it becomes a civil issue to be decided by a court. Refusing to deplane is not the answer and the very reason we have trespass laws.

I could condone someone refusing to leave or defying a law to get it challenged in court to effect change. That's not what the doctor in this case was doing, regardless of how good for travelers the changes in United policy are, or how sweet his settlement probably was.

Again, for those hard of hearing, I'm not on United's side. I'm just pointing out that we have private property and trespass laws in the US. You can't sit on an airline's jet and refuse to leave if they choose to deny you service. If you do so expect to be removed by force.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
Nice try, but renting a home or apartment is protected under the law and there is a legal process that must be followed to evict a tenant.

And do you think a person should be legally evicted because the owner got a better offer? There is a way to legally deplane someone. UA has a list of reasons.


If you do so expect to be removed by force.

And if you legally evict a tenant "say for not paying rent". Should you be able to hire some random assholes call them security officers dress them in police clothing and send them in to beat the shit out of and then drag the former tenant out?

Or should you have to get real police to remove them?

.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,917
12,379
126
www.anyf.ca
Mass email to every United MilegagePlus member:

Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines


wow,, United CEO's mea culpa


Basically:



 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
11,938
538
126
That email was a bunch of corporate BS, just like any other response they've had. However, for all those saying they'll never fly UA again, hah. All legacy airlines are the same (UA, AA, DL), maybe some marginally better than others. If you have tons of status on UA with lots of miles and want to switch, you won't be making a statement, you'll just be screwing yourself out of your miles. This is how all the airlines have us by the balls.
the unfortunate event just happened to be on a UA flight, and not an AA flight, etc.
I'm stuck flying United, I have too many FF miles, and am pretty much based out of EWR, so I can't switch even if i wanted to.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
And do you think a person should be legally evicted because the owner got a better offer? There is a way to legally deplane someone. UA has a list of reasons.

And if you legally evict a tenant "say for not paying rent". Should you be able to hire some random assholes call them security officers dress them in police clothing and send them in to beat the shit out of and then drag the former tenant out?

Or should you have to get real police to remove them?

Now you are asking stupid questions totally unrelated to the issue we are discussing.

Absent a lease saying otherwise, a landlord is free to raise rents or evict tenants at any time for any or no reason so long as they aren't violating civil rights, give the legally required notice (usually 30 day), and follow any other legal requirements for the eviction. I don't know why you feel a tenant has the right to stay in a rented home or apartment against the owners wishes.

Nobody beat the shit out of that doctor. They were pulling him out of his seat while he held on to prevent them from doing so. When the doc lost his grip on his seat it launched him across the isle and into another seat face first, which is how he got injured. Nobody struck him or beat the shit out of him.

What you describe in your idiotic, hypothetical eviction scenario would be an assault, and isn't even close to what happened to the doctor. Nothing criminal happened to that doc. Refusing to deplane will and should get you dragged off by force, which could lead to you being injured.

If you want to argue United should have done something to prevent escalating the situation to the point forcible deplaning the doc was necessary then please go ahead. But stop with the hypothetical stupidity.
 
Last edited:

Keyvan Shahrdar

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2017
19
1
11
https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-p...oved-flight-refusing-give-seat-134930951.html

Companies are so stupid. All they had to do was keep raising their offer if no one bit at $800. I was on overbooked United flight Saturday night and they offered $800 plus hotel and dinner and breakfast for volunteers to take the next morning flight. I went up to take the deal but a family of five beat me to the agent by like 5 seconds. I guess $800 is the max for United.
THey will give upt o $10k now. I would have taken the deal at $800
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
THey will give upt o $10k now. I would have taken the deal at $800

$800 I wouldn't do it - it's not worth it. It can only cover a single flight somewhere.
At $1500, I'd bite - I'd probably get 2 trips out of it.

Boarding is already frustrating for the most part, once I am on a plane, I wouldn't want to get off again.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
$800 I wouldn't do it - it's not worth it. It can only cover a single flight somewhere.
At $1500, I'd bite - I'd probably get 2 trips out of it.

Boarding is already frustrating for the most part, once I am on a plane, I wouldn't want to get off again.

I wouldn't have gotten off for $1,500 given the circumstances of no other flights that night and the next one was at like 3 pm the next day. Basically, it's a day out of my life that I had other plans for and honestly I just generally have shit to do. Now for $3,000 I might have gotten off and I damn sure would have taken the money before it got to $10,000.

They did offer $1,500 or close to it to a plane full of people and no one bit, I assume for the same reason that I wouldn't have at that number.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,917
12,379
126
www.anyf.ca
$800 I wouldn't do it - it's not worth it. It can only cover a single flight somewhere.
At $1500, I'd bite - I'd probably get 2 trips out of it.

Boarding is already frustrating for the most part, once I am on a plane, I wouldn't want to get off again.

That's the thing, if they're going to play this game of overbooking, it should be first come first serve, once you're on the plane they should not be able to just kick you off. It should be first come first serve, once you're on the plane then you should be considered safe. The way it works now, it almost seems like being late is an advantage as then they have to kick someone off for you, while if you showed up on time you could be the one being kicked off.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
11,938
538
126
Crew shoulds have been able to offer$10k . That would have avoided this entire mess.
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
Crew shoulds have been able to offer$10k . That would have avoided this entire mess.

It wouldn't even have gone up to anywhere close that amount. On that flight, someone actually said he would take $1600 and voluntarily give up his seat. The crew said no to that. Idiots.
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
It wouldn't even have gone up to anywhere close that amount. On that flight, someone actually said he would take $1600 and voluntarily give up his seat. The crew said no to that. Idiots.

My next flight is in September - if they start a bidding war, I'll just stand up and say give me $2000 and I'll do it. It's a 2 week vacation to the in-laws so I don't mind losing a day.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Remember folks, make them pay you with certified check or gift card, do not take the travel voucher.
 

who?

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2012
2,327
42
91
Since the airlines have been reducing capacity to keep planes full and profits up the other airlines may not have enough room for everybody.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I don't mean to sound like an asshole but if a fuckload of people on my flight just got injured from turbulence because they didn't have their seatbelts on, my friggen seatbelt wouldn't be coming off till we hit ground and rolled to a stop.
 
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