The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
Thing I worry about universal healthcare is what I see from the Veterans Administration, which is basically universal healthcare for Soldiers and Veterans. Seen all the corruption, inefficiencies, and mistreatments on the news but figured it's just typical media and political exaggeration.
I talked to a group of old retired veterans last week and all they talked about is how much they hate the VA healthcare system. And hate is an understatement. They had soo much resentment that it was eye opening for me. I wonder if this is what would happen with universal healthcare here.
The problem I have M is not whether someone has something better, but how do we get to what is best for us. We've arrived at an end without considering how to get there.
We'd best keep to our feet when dreaming of Imladris or we might wind up in Barad-dûr. Shall we not try then? Of course we ought to, but we need a good map and trusty guides before embarking on a journey which cannot be undone. I'd prefer wisdom and knowledge over all else when dealing with such matters.
Quick, tell me the last time you personally needed a GP in a non-emergency situation to diagnose something.
Even the really serious problems are not handled by your family doctor. If your family doctor thinks you might have cancer, they refer you to another doctor that is better suited for making that call. If they suspect one of many common chronic problems, they'll refer you to a lab that takes blood and tests things. A doctor is needed to look at the results of that test, but why do we need doctors doing the initial referral?
What?so now it's a forgone conclusion that obama care has death panels..who selects the panel members?? Is Mzz Nancy Pelosi involved somehow??
I think it's usually longer, sometimes seriously longer. In both of these cases it would not have been considered an emergency.You think Canadians wait months for those same procedures in emergency circumstances?
My mother had a fall yesterday morning breaking her hip. While in hospital they did the x-ray and found what they believe is cancer. In the 24 hours since then she has had a second round of X-rays, CT scan and bone scan.
We don't have to wait if we don't want to either. You can pay for scans on your own at private clinics. If you want it free for non emergency matters there could be some wait but in most cases it's not a long wait.
The system we had worked pretty well for most of us, although admittedly for 10 - 15% of the population it did not work well.You would seem to imply that the prior system, free market health care, is some sort of utopia where people don't have to wait for MRI's, etc. It's easy to do that when you ignore all of the awful things that happened in the prior system--tens of thousands of people dying each year from lack of health care, sick people having their insurance coverage revoked, hundreds of thousands of medical cost-induced bankruptcies every year, etc.
I'm not a defender of Obamacare since I support real socialized medicine. I just want to point out that the previous system you seem to have fond memories of had horrible problems.
lol Easy peasy, just assume that everyone who doesn't want what I want is either corrupt or stupid. Congrats, you have accurately captured the typical Democrat condescension.Easy peasy solution: Get rid of the corruption in government and universal health care will sail through Congress. /s
The problem with UHC is that it's meant to help the commoner and not so much the very rich who acquire their wealth from the commoner. How can the elite prey upon the everyday joe in the street if the gov't sets up laws that shields the majority of the nation who would greatly benefit from UHC coverage, from the select few who can afford all the health care they could ever want or need and then some?
The moment our politicians put up their "Congressional Votes for Sale to the Highest Bidder" signs is the day UHC became virtually impossible to get passed. Then the totally corrupted Conservative run USSC got involved and drove the last nail into the UHC coffin.
It still amazes me how this small group of very powerful rich folks can bamboozle the vast majority of the nation into believing that it's good for the majority of the nation to vote against their own best interests.
That's what I don't understand. We're always told how satisfied are veterans with the VA, yet virtually all of those I know hate it.Thing I worry about universal healthcare is what I see from the Veterans Administration, which is basically universal healthcare for Soldiers and Veterans. Seen all the corruption, inefficiencies, and mistreatments on the news but figured it's just typical media and political exaggeration.
I talked to a group of old retired veterans last week and all they talked about is how much they hate the VA healthcare system. And hate is an understatement. They had soo much resentment that it was eye opening for me. I wonder if this is what would happen with universal healthcare here.
That's what I don't understand. We're always told how satisfied are veterans with the VA, yet virtually all of those I know hate it.
I think it's usually longer, sometimes seriously longer. In both of these cases it would not have been considered an emergency.
The system we had worked pretty well for most of us, although admittedly for 10 - 15% of the population it did not work well.
lol Easy peasy, just assume that everyone who doesn't want what I want is either corrupt or stupid. Congrats, you have accurately captured the typical Democrat condescension.
While you've been developing your sense of superiority, the rest of us have been figuring out how to provide our own health insurance, education, birth control, day care . . .
In the United States:
There are fewer physicians per person than in most other OECD countries. In 2010, for instance, the U.S. had 2.4 practicing physicians per 1,000 people — well below below the OECD average of 3.1.
The number of hospital beds in the U.S. was 2.6 per 1,000 population in 2009, lower than the OECD average of 3.4 beds.
Life expectancy at birth increased by almost nine years between 1960 and 2010, but that’s less than the increase of over 15 years in Japan and over 11 years on average in OECD countries. The average American now lives 78.7 years in 2010, more than one year below the average of 79.8 years.
Spending on almost every area of health care is higher in the United States than in other countries. For example, nearly $900 per person per year goes on administrative costs. This is far higher than in, say, France, which spends $300 per person, but which also has a system in which health care services are reimbursed in a similar way to the U.S.
A large amount of higher overall hospital spending in the U.S. can be explained by services costing more in U.S. hospitals rather than because U.S. hospitals are delivering more services. When we look across a broad range of hospital services (both medical and surgical), the average price in the United States is 85 percent higher than the average in other OECD countries. To put this in perspective, a hospital stay in the United States costs over $18,000 on average. The countries that come closest to spending as much — Canada, the Netherlands, Japan — spend between $4,000 and $6,000 less per stay. Across OECD countries, the average cost of a hospital stay is about one-third that of the U.S., at $6,200.
Our data suggests that the U.S. does do more tests than other OECD countries. The U.S. did 100 MRI tests and 265 CT tests for every 1000 people in 2010 — more than twice the average in other OECD countries. It does more tonsillectomies and more knee replacements than any other OECD country. It also has more Caesarean sections and coronary bypass procedures than in most other countries.
These procedures and the use of expensive diagnostic tests are all subject to physician opinion on whether they are desirable or not. The fact that U.S. physicians decide that more procedures and tests are desirable compared to their peers in other countries could be due to a few different things, such as:
A fear of litigation that sees physicians test for everything so that they cannot be blamed for not having covered all bases
Payments that mean that physicians get paid more if they do more interventions, regardless of medical necessity.
Because patients ask for more tests and services. It is often comforting to feel that medical problems are being diagnosed or treated, regardless of whether they are medically necessary. As these services are often paid for by insurance policies, the immediate cost of extra treatment for a patient is often zero or very low.
In 2012:
Underinsured: 31.7 million
Uninsured: 47.3 million
Bankruptcy per year: 2 million
Struggling to pay healthcare related bills: 56 million
How in the world could you post with a straight face that the system worked well for most people. Are you just using the term "most" to mean over 50%?
Yeah don't let facts get in the way of what you just posted. You even quoted the nearly 80 million people who are not taken care of. Surely all those people just need to work harder and pay more money into the system. Right?
The "I got mine, you go get yours" attitude is why the USA is falling behind in almost every metric that we use to measure prosperity.
Worse yet is that despite your idealism we still spend 2.5x per person for healthcare than countries with fully functioning systems
That's 2.5x as much for a faulty, broken, and inadequate system
Fist bump!
You're saying nurses don't know that xrays are used to diagnose chronic coughing?"You've had a chronic cough?" .. orders chest xray
Correct, analysis of xrays should be handled by a doctor."You have a shadow on your chest xray?" .. orders cat scan of the chest
As you jokingly suggest, yes, 100% of my dad's cancer was handled by an oncologist. 100% of my mom's cortisone shots are done by a guy who only does orthopedic stuff. It would be awesome if a family doctor would give those cortisone shots, but that's not the situation. The doctors around here don't even treat things like depression. I had to get a referral to a psychiatrist just to get fluoxetine. I've been taking that for years and it's still 100% handled by a psychiatrist. It's absurdly expensive, but that's the system. I'm left wondering if family doctors actually do anything.How about that? Certainly some general practitioners lack the experience/comfort with managing various illnesses, but the vast majority do it without problem. You honestly think an endocrinologist should be managing all diabetics? Or a pulmonologist all patient's with COPD? Yeah, that's a brilliant solution for cost savings; not to mention absurd.
So on an ideological level, since that's all you're offering, you should decide what kind of society you want to live in. One with high poverty and the crime levels associated with it or one where your kids are safe to ride their bike down the street and you don't have to worry about someone stealing your cell phone out of your car while you're sitting in it.
Almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and 25% have no money. Your imaginary world where everyone just pays their own way does not match reality. It's not done in any developed nation and those 3rd world nations that do operate that way have very high poverty rates.
I'm from CA which has a poverty rate of 25%. I currently live in a South American country and the poverty rate here is a bit over 30%. I think the level of poverty is different but one thing remains the same. A society with high levels of poverty is subpar, in my opinion, compared to one that has low levels. Europe is at about 15% overall including places like Bulgaria and Romania. I lived in a Western European country that was around 5%. It's a huge difference. I really can't stress this enough.
So on an ideological level, since that's all you're offering, you should decide what kind of society you want to live in. One with high poverty and the crime levels associated with it or one where your kids are safe to ride their bike down the street and you don't have to worry about someone stealing your cell phone out of your car while you're sitting in it.
It's pretty one sided to only mention the drawbacks of a high poverty society and none of the positives.
The positive is cheap labor. I have a maid and a cook.