Originally posted by: suszterpatt
Infinite space?
I don't really understand the question.
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Just to be annoying.. someone posted this the other day...
We know the rate of expansion is *increasing* - which is quite mind boggling...
But, someone said suppose on the following, we're at point C
A---------------------------------------B----------C----------D
And, assume A is some incredible gravity well... The universe could be shrinking toward A, but we would observe B and D moving away from us (relatively speaking)
Originally posted by: jasonlclei
Technically, the universe is supposedly "infinite." So it should be expanding into itself, infinity. Although this does not make much sense, it is how it is.
When the universe expands, it does NOT mean that the ends of the universe moves away, such as this:
A---B---C---D becoming A------B---C------D.
instead, all space expands:
A---B---C---D becoming A------B------C------D.
All within the reasonable gravitational limits of course. If I go up to the top of a cliff and throw something down, it sure as hell won't expand further away from the ground.Originally posted by: jasonlclei
Technically, the universe is supposedly "infinite." So it should be expanding into itself, infinity. Although this does not make much sense, it is how it is.
When the universe expands, it does NOT mean that the ends of the universe moves away, such as this:
A---B---C---D becoming A------B---C------D.
instead, all space expands:
A---B---C---D becoming A------B------C------D.
Nothing. Space can exist without the universe to fill it out (to my knowledge). In fact, space exists no matter what.Originally posted by: RichardE
I understand that concept, but what is it expanding into? I mean
Say universe ends | 10 light years and it is now here |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What was in this space before the universe took it?
Originally posted by: suszterpatt
Nothing. Space can exist without the universe to fill it out (to my knowledge). In fact, space exists no matter what.Originally posted by: RichardE
I understand that concept, but what is it expanding into? I mean
Say universe ends | 10 light years and it is now here |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What was in this space before the universe took it?
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Just to be annoying.. someone posted this the other day...
We know the rate of expansion is *increasing* - which is quite mind boggling...
But, someone said suppose on the following, we're at point C
A---------------------------------------B----------C----------D
And, assume A is some incredible gravity well... The universe could be shrinking toward A, but we would observe B and D moving away from us (relatively speaking)
Originally posted by: Raibeaux
Wondering. Assuming the big bang from an infinitely compressed mass of....mass. The universe is expanding, but the rate of expansion is slowing. Wondering if in a gazillion millenia the universe reverses back to the same type of mass until ....BOOM, another big bang. Like a huge, super-slow pulse. If that's true, the universe would indeed be literaly alive in perpetuity. I always think of the universe as having no beginning, no end and no edges. Kinda weird.
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Just to be annoying.. someone posted this the other day...
We know the rate of expansion is *increasing* - which is quite mind boggling...
But, someone said suppose on the following, we're at point C
A---------------------------------------B----------C----------D
And, assume A is some incredible gravity well... The universe could be shrinking toward A, but we would observe B and D moving away from us (relatively speaking)
Except that wouldn't work. If you looked in a direction not in line with our acceleration you wouldn't see the same effect, you'd see us moving closer to them. And then there's the CMB, you'd see a much larger dipole effect than we actually do.
Equally, it's possible that the big bang is a one-off, freak occurrence which simply happened because something not happening was too unlikely. We're getting into the realms of metaphysics here where all (most) speculations are equally valid!Originally posted by: Raibeaux
Wondering. Assuming the big bang from an infinitely compressed mass of....mass. The universe is expanding, but the rate of expansion is slowing. Wondering if in a gazillion millenia the universe reverses back to the same type of mass until ....BOOM, another big bang. Like a huge, super-slow pulse. If that's true, the universe would indeed be literaly alive in perpetuity. I always think of the universe as having no beginning, no end and no edges. Kinda weird.
Originally posted by: onezeroone
Originally posted by: Raibeaux
Wondering. Assuming the big bang from an infinitely compressed mass of....mass. The universe is expanding, but the rate of expansion is slowing. Wondering if in a gazillion millenia the universe reverses back to the same type of mass until ....BOOM, another big bang. Like a huge, super-slow pulse. If that's true, the universe would indeed be literaly alive in perpetuity. I always think of the universe as having no beginning, no end and no edges. Kinda weird.
I too share this theory. Every observable process oscillates on some period, no reason to think the universe itself is any different. If the big bang theory is correct, then the only event that could have possibly preceded it, is the big implosion Perhaps someday people will argue about how many big bangs have occured, or if they can even be counted.
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Just to be annoying.. someone posted this the other day...
We know the rate of expansion is *increasing* - which is quite mind boggling...
But, someone said suppose on the following, we're at point C
A---------------------------------------B----------C----------D
And, assume A is some incredible gravity well... The universe could be shrinking toward A, but we would observe B and D moving away from us (relatively speaking)
Except that wouldn't work. If you looked in a direction not in line with our acceleration you wouldn't see the same effect, you'd see us moving closer to them. And then there's the CMB, you'd see a much larger dipole effect than we actually do.
I didn't say I believed him... I just reposted it to be annoying.
Originally posted by: RichardE
IE, if you blow up a baloon it displaces the air around it as it expands, what is the universe displacing?
Originally posted by: Smilin
I was the one that posted it. Go lookup the original post if you would like to see it in context.
It would work actually. If you look in a direction exactly perpendicular to your direction of acceleration (plus or minus a certain angle) things will appear blue shifted. The "certain angle" will decrease the further the singularity gets from you. If it's an infinite distance away the slice of space that will be blue shifted by something other than local motion is infinitely thin.
That CMB crap keeps getting pulled out too. See original post.
The "mind boggling" part of expansion increasing at an accelerating rate is so very easily explained and not "mind boggling" at all if you are simply willing to believe the universe is collapsing. Everyone just sees red-shift and says "AHA! Expanding!". It's just as simplistic as people seeing the sun go across the sky and assuming it's orbiting around us.
My brain just exploded.Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: RichardE
IE, if you blow up a baloon it displaces the air around it as it expands, what is the universe displacing?
Time.
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: Smilin
I was the one that posted it. Go lookup the original post if you would like to see it in context.
It would work actually. If you look in a direction exactly perpendicular to your direction of acceleration (plus or minus a certain angle) things will appear blue shifted. The "certain angle" will decrease the further the singularity gets from you. If it's an infinite distance away the slice of space that will be blue shifted by something other than local motion is infinitely thin.
That CMB crap keeps getting pulled out too. See original post.
The "mind boggling" part of expansion increasing at an accelerating rate is so very easily explained and not "mind boggling" at all if you are simply willing to believe the universe is collapsing. Everyone just sees red-shift and says "AHA! Expanding!". It's just as simplistic as people seeing the sun go across the sky and assuming it's orbiting around us.
Absolutely. That is how it WOULD look. But it doesn't. No matter what direction we look, we see redshift. Explain that.
CMB crap? You really need to read a bit about it. You can get a whole ton of information out of it.
Originally posted by: suszterpatt
My brain just exploded.Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: RichardE
IE, if you blow up a baloon it displaces the air around it as it expands, what is the universe displacing?
Time.