University and College Students: Cheating?

Static911

Diamond Member
Nov 24, 2000
4,338
1
0
Does your college use those anti-cheat programs? Like it goes through your Word document and compares it against a national database for similarity between phrases, etc.?


static911
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
eh.. my old school probably wrote a program that did that.. frickin nerds n stuff..
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
i know the cs department at the uw does. pretty sophisticated, or so they say. they caught a bunch of cheaters a few quarters back... sucks to be them.
 

ZeroBurn

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2000
2,892
0
0
i've heard of it, but nope. personally i think it's BS, and on top of that half my professors couldn't give a damn.

any one with half a brain could reword sentences to say the exact same thing, it's still plagiarism and circumvents the cross-search program. although i gubesides, you'd need to either submit it online or on a floppy, i don't know a single professor that would prefer anything besides a hardcopy. although i guess if you're dumb enough to copy it word for word, it would weed out the morons.
 

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,481
0
0
this year my school implemented that, we have to give them disks as well as a hardcopy. Supposably it comes up with a certain percentage, and then the school decides for themselves if its plagaristic or not - high school btw
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
i don't think rewording does a damn thing with the algorithms they've developed...
 

Static911

Diamond Member
Nov 24, 2000
4,338
1
0
after writing nearly 15 pages, I know that somehow, even though I reworded stuff (I can only quote only so much), it will copy somebody elses words..


static911
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
th;ats the problem.. theres so many damn words out there.. that yer gonna start "copying" just by accident..
 

tontod

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
3,244
0
71
Yeah, in Computer Science classes at Georgia Tech they used a fairly sophisticated algorithm to catch people cheating and copying off each other. Basically, even changing all the variables wouldnt fool the program.
 

cureless

Member
Apr 25, 2001
94
0
0
I've been a TA (Teaching assistant) for a number of courses (in CS) and we use programs to check code. I've caught a few people (with the program checkers and without).

I can't really say too much about essay stuff. I do believe I saw some programs that looked at that.

cl
 

Static911

Diamond Member
Nov 24, 2000
4,338
1
0
I was accused of cheating for introduction to HTML (no javascript, simple HTML coding)

Guy accused me of cheating and he said "many TA's agree with me"

I'm like, bullcrap, I know 3 of the 5 TA's

We are talking like <A HREF>
type of stuff here....

static911
 

ZeroBurn

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2000
2,892
0
0
i'm not a CS major, in fact i'm closer to an english major. i don't understand how any algorithm could be effective enough to distinguish central ideas, so maybe that's just me. it'd be interesting if you could explain to me how to distinguish them though.

for example:

The first of the relevant physiological discoveries, that of the distinction between sensory and motor nerves, is credited to Charles Bell (1774-1842). Bell was born in Edinburgh and educated informally. Although he attended lectures at the University of Edinburgh, most of Bell's anatomical and surgical instruction was received from his older brother John, a noted physician.

on my report, i could put:

Charles Bell (1774-1842) is known to have pioneered the first of all relevant physiological discoveries. That discovery, is the distinction between sensory and motor nerves. Bell received most of his instruction from his elder brother, John Bell, a noted physician; despite his enrollment in the University of Edinburgh.


i can see how it would work in CS, but i mean i took a few CS courses myself, and i'd often end up with the same method of doing a program as someone else.

that brings up the point of coincidence. what was that quote? an infinite number of monkeys, typing forever with an infinite amount of time, will eventually produce the works of shakespeare.
 

Schlocemus

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2001
1,198
0
0


<< i'm not a CS major, in fact i'm closer to an english major. i don't understand how any algorithm could be effective enough to distinguish central ideas, so maybe that's just me. it'd be interesting if you could explain to me how to distinguish them though.

for example:

The first of the relevant physiological discoveries, that of the distinction between sensory and motor nerves, is credited to Charles Bell (1774-1842). Bell was born in Edinburgh and educated informally. Although he attended lectures at the University of Edinburgh, most of Bell's anatomical and surgical instruction was received from his older brother John, a noted physician.

on my report, i could put:

Charles Bell (1774-1842) is known to have pioneered the first of all relevant physiological discoveries. That discovery, is the distinction between sensory and motor nerves. Bell received informal instruction from his elder brother, John Bell, who was a noted physician, despite his enrollment in the University of Edinburgh.
>>



I think in that last clause you need the specify the antecedent as Charles Bell, and not John.
(I'm not english major tho)
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
well i didn't say they were simple algorithms...

i would *imagine* that they would look at keywords and see how close they are in relationship to each other.

basically it boils down to this.... humans have tendencies in just about everything they do. these algorithms are designed to recognize and identify these tendencies.
 

ZeroBurn

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2000
2,892
0
0
heh, i didn't actually notice how that sounded. i just kind of typed whatever flowed into my head at the moment, it should be a semi-colon though since it's a different thought.

edited to appease the audiance

the point still stands though, would it even be possible to come up with an algorithm for essays, not programs ?
 

Keego

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2000
6,223
2
81
More power to them!

As a college student, I feel that people get what they deserve if they cheat on essays like that.
 

Rickten

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2001
1,607
0
0
They do it at UCSD. You have to hand in you essays over the internet to a certain site that cross references your essay against everyone in your class and all the essays found on those websites, www.cheaters.com, www.f!uckschool.com. This basically catches the cheaters who are blatently doing it and don't seem to care if they get caught. It also catches people who copy of websites. I know a guy who got called in because it found a whole paragraph from a website that had been copied in his essay. The program highlights the paragraph and gives a print out of the website to the teacher.


edit: they also keep a record for each class of essays written in the past. So if people try to hand in their sisters essay that she wrote two years earlier they will get snagged.
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
1,628
0
0
I have no idea. My profs are pretty smart, they could spot a cheater. Classes are the size aroudn 17 so they know all the students at my college.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
zeroburn - i believe it's entirely possible, because i have heard of research in that field being conducted. i really do think it is possible.

but to satisfy our mutual curiosity, i submitted your paragraph to plagiarism.com for analysis. i'll let you know the results when i get it. btw, i found the source of your paragraph with a 3 word google search. it was the only result returned
 

ZeroBurn

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2000
2,892
0
0
gopunk - hehe, google's where i got it from. i typed in "psychology of the mind" assuming there would be a bunch of example material that would come up. i guess i could see how an algorithm would be able to pull out human tendencies, but i don't see how that could distinguish one person's writing from another. i guess i just keep picturing the poor schmoe who gets kicks out of college because his report happened to match someone else's. i've personally been accused of plagiarism myself, which i don't do, so i take it to heart.

professor turned my paper back that simply said "see me." apparently she didn't believe the writing was mine, since she didn't think i was capable of it, i wasn't sure if i was offended or pleased at that point. reason was i guess i goofed off a little in that class and the philosophy class was a bit more advanced one than a freshman should be taking. in any case i had to re-write another essay (shorter, different topic). i focused on it a lot more than i had the previous one, when she found it better than the original paper she had to give me a mark, and a half-ass apology. this also happened to a friend of mine, to some degree.

 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Dunno, but my one professor accused me of plagiarizing part of a paper. I outright challenged her on the spot to check out my sources, and anywhere else she wanted to to find out where in the heck I plagiarized it from. If copying thoughts out of my own head is plagiarism, I guess I'm guilty.
Too well written for her to believe perhaps?
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
yea, i don't think we're at the point where we can rely on them to do all the work... i think the idea is that the programs alert the teacher, and it is left to the teacher's own discretion.

i hate it when they only kind of apologize.... they should grovel! grovel b!tch, grovel!
 
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