University Overpays MBA's

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,236
12,564
136
Don't MBA students have to take some ethics classes? If not, apparently they should.

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/711922.html

"Stanislaus' MBA students' diplomas tied up
CSU Stanislaus gave them $4,000 each by mistake, wants money back
By Merrill Balassone

TURLOCK -- California State University, Stanislaus, officials acknowledged making a $48,000 mistake that gave a dozen MBA students windfalls of $4,000 each, but say they won't award diplomas or release transcripts until they get the money back.

That leaves 32-year-old Sami Younan of Riverbank in a fix. He lost his job in the pharmaceutical industry shortly before completing the 15-month executive master's of business administration program at CSU, Stanislaus, in November.

Younan said he called the university after he received his $4,000 check in the mail and said he was told it was a "financial aid overpayment." He used it to pay his bills.

"Not only did they make the mistake, but they're punishing us for making that mistake," Younan said. "It's really sad the university has treated us this way."

Robyn Criswell-Bloom, director of extended education, said it is university policy to withhold diplomas and transcripts if a student has an outstanding balance.

But one of the students' professors, Steven Filling, said this is a "unique" situation that differs from the typical student who owes the university money.

"If what's going on is outside the normal parameters, it seems we might come up with an outside- parameters solution," Filling said. "Let's try to make life as easy as possible for (the students)."

Some observers said CSU, Stanislaus, should not withhold the diplomas and transcripts before it resolves the issue with the students.

"There seems to be coercion involved, coercion to get these students to pay money back that they didn't ask for but was given to them in error," said Jessica Levinson, with the Center for Governmental Studies in Los Angeles. "It seems highly inappropriate to tie the students' arms."

The course work for the 12 MBA students ended in November, the same month they received the refund checks. The university said it discovered the error in January. One student said the university contacted him in March, saying his diploma would be withheld until he repaid the refund.

Checks sent automatically

Criswell-Bloom said a glitch happened while the university was changing the database system that tracks student accounts, mistakenly showing $4,000 credits to the 12 students. The students automatically were sent $4,000 refund checks.

University spokeswoman Kristin Olsen said CSU, Stanislaus, has been "very flexible," allowing students to make interest-free payments on a schedule that meets their financial needs.

But university officials, citing privacy laws, would not say whether any students had repaid the refunds or entered into repayment schedules.

Criswell-Bloom said she has helped produce verification letters for the students to prove to employers and admissions officers that they've completed the academic course work.

"The last thing we want to do is preclude them from getting jobs," she said.

But that's what happened to Steve Larson, who said he lost his teaching jobs at the University of Phoenix in Modesto, Lathrop and Sacramento because CSU, Stani-slaus, refused to release his official transcript.

'We didn't cause problem'

Larson, 49, of Stockton, said he's more than willing to sign a promissory note to repay the $4,000. He wonders why the university won't release his degree and transcripts while he makes the payments. He said the university's financial aid office called to tell him he had a credit, but it didn't inform him until March of the problem with his account.

"We didn't cause this problem," Larson said. "We had nothing to do with this."

Filling said many of his students are more than willing to repay what was mistakenly sent to them.

Close to 100 students have completed the executive MBA program at CSU, Stani-slaus. The university has offered programs in Tracy, Modesto, Turlock and Stockton.

The financial aid checks were sent to students in the inaugural program in Tracy, whose students hail from around the region, Olsen said.

The program is designed for executives and business leaders who work full time and want an accelerated program to earn their graduate business degrees."


Oh gee...I got an extra $4000 that I didn't earn nor deserve. I'm gonna keep it and not expect any kind of repercussions. :roll:

While the error was on the part of the University, the 12 MBA students SHOULD have been intelligent enough to know it'd have to be repaid...

Apparently, some are making arrrangements to do so, but understandably, the university is withholding their diplomas and transcripts. (if they release those, where's the incentive for the students to repay?) Ethics? HA!
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
I would keep the money. An MBA from CSU Stanislaus is probably not worth $4k.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Oh gee...I got an extra $4000 that I didn't earn nor deserve. I'm gonna keep it and not expect any kind of repercussions. :roll:

While the error was on the part of the University, the 12 MBA students SHOULD have been intelligent enough to know it'd have to be repaid...

The article even said one of the receipients asked about the money "Younan said he called the university after he received his $4,000 check in the mail and said he was told it was a "financial aid overpayment." He used it to pay his bills". You receive the check, you check on it, your told by the sender its yours... Is it really that suprising they then used the money? I'd agree with you if they honestly didn't know where the money is from and never inquired, but if you send me a check and I ask you about it and you tell me it's mine (only later to change your mind), I don't think they deserve the blame.
 

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
7,806
3
81
Younan said he called the university after he received his $4,000 check in the mail and said he was told it was a "financial aid overpayment." He used it to pay his bills.

I dunno how hard he pressed, but if I got a 4k check and called my school to ask I'd want more of an explanation before spending the money. Financial aid overpayment to me doesn't sound like a refund, at the very past a loan or money I don't deserve? Then again if I called in and they said there was a 4k credit to my account cause of financial aid and payments I'd probably blink twice, cheer, then use the money.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Not surprising to me. Most of the MBAs I've met are unscrupulous douchebags.

KT
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
6,941
457
136
Originally posted by: BoomerD


Oh gee...I got an extra $4000 that I didn't earn nor deserve. I'm gonna keep it and not expect any kind of repercussions. :roll:

While the error was on the part of the University, the 12 MBA students SHOULD have been intelligent enough to know it'd have to be repaid...

Apparently, some are making arrrangements to do so, but understandably, the university is withholding their diplomas and transcripts. (if they release those, where's the incentive for the students to repay?) Ethics? HA!

I think you missed the part where the student contacted the uni to verify the funds were his. The student in the article did his due diligence. The money is then his to do whatever he wanted with. While the uni may want the money back, holding the transcripts at ransom is pretty shitty imo.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,236
12,564
136
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Originally posted by: BoomerD


Oh gee...I got an extra $4000 that I didn't earn nor deserve. I'm gonna keep it and not expect any kind of repercussions. :roll:

While the error was on the part of the University, the 12 MBA students SHOULD have been intelligent enough to know it'd have to be repaid...

Apparently, some are making arrrangements to do so, but understandably, the university is withholding their diplomas and transcripts. (if they release those, where's the incentive for the students to repay?) Ethics? HA!

I think you missed the part where the student contacted the uni to verify the funds were his. The student in the article did his due diligence. The money is then his to do whatever he wanted with. While the uni may want the money back, holding the transcripts at ransom is pretty shitty imo.


I didn't miss it...I'm just not sure I believe him...

Perhaps he DID call to inquire...that doesn't relieve him of the obligation to repay the funds. Colleges and universities withhold diplomas and transcripts all the time to ensure that students finish paying off their bills...I see this as nothing out of the ordinary.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
I didn't miss it...I'm just not sure I believe him...

Oh cool, can we start randomly choosing which parts of the story to believe? It's not like the school denied it.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Originally posted by: oogabooga
Younan said he called the university after he received his $4,000 check in the mail and said he was told it was a "financial aid overpayment." He used it to pay his bills.

I dunno how hard he pressed, but if I got a 4k check and called my school to ask I'd want more of an explanation before spending the money. Financial aid overpayment to me doesn't sound like a refund, at the very past a loan or money I don't deserve? Then again if I called in and they said there was a 4k credit to my account cause of financial aid and payments I'd probably blink twice, cheer, then use the money.

It sounds like the university told him that either he or his financial aid (depending on how it works) overpaid the university to the tune of $4k. Thus, there was a refund check issued, he checked on it, was told it was legit, then spent it.
 

mcmilljb

Platinum Member
May 17, 2005
2,144
2
81
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Originally posted by: BoomerD


Oh gee...I got an extra $4000 that I didn't earn nor deserve. I'm gonna keep it and not expect any kind of repercussions. :roll:

While the error was on the part of the University, the 12 MBA students SHOULD have been intelligent enough to know it'd have to be repaid...

Apparently, some are making arrrangements to do so, but understandably, the university is withholding their diplomas and transcripts. (if they release those, where's the incentive for the students to repay?) Ethics? HA!

I think you missed the part where the student contacted the uni to verify the funds were his. The student in the article did his due diligence. The money is then his to do whatever he wanted with. While the uni may want the money back, holding the transcripts at ransom is pretty shitty imo.


I didn't miss it...I'm just not sure I believe him...

Perhaps he DID call to inquire...that doesn't relieve him of the obligation to repay the funds. Colleges and universities withhold diplomas and transcripts all the time to ensure that students finish paying off their bills...I see this as nothing out of the ordinary.

I don't know about you and California, but I don't think it's ordinary for universities to give random students $4000 by accident. Maybe it's a new program in California

The logical thing to do is require the students to sign a promissary note and agree to a payment schedule. If they can't get a job, how are they going to pay the money back? The university fucked up not the students.

My old university tried to pull some dumb shit one time. I earned a $3500 research grant, and I was supposed to get half up front and the second half at the end. Well they refused to give me the first half because I owed some $60 fee, and they wouldn't take the $60 out of the money I owed. I had to waste part of my day going to the bank to get cash since I didn't have my checkbook on me and getting everything settled with the people who got the fee. I even went back later and disputed the fee and got my $60 back. This goes to show you that the people running universities with their MBA's can be unreasonable.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: oogabooga
Younan said he called the university after he received his $4,000 check in the mail and said he was told it was a "financial aid overpayment." He used it to pay his bills.

I dunno how hard he pressed, but if I got a 4k check and called my school to ask I'd want more of an explanation before spending the money. Financial aid overpayment to me doesn't sound like a refund, at the very past a loan or money I don't deserve? Then again if I called in and they said there was a 4k credit to my account cause of financial aid and payments I'd probably blink twice, cheer, then use the money.

It sounds like the university told him that either he or his financial aid (depending on how it works) overpaid the university to the tune of $4k. Thus, there was a refund check issued, he checked on it, was told it was legit, then spent it.

This...

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
The logical thing to do is require the students to sign a promissary note and agree to a payment schedule. If they can't get a job, how are they going to pay the money back? The university fucked up not the students.

...and this.

The univ needs to work with the students on this. Taking a hard line on their policy and holding the students' diplomas and transcripts ransom is bullshit.
 

Rachael

Senior member
Mar 16, 2006
363
1
0
Your comment on this seems unreasonably judgmental. The student was told it was a "financial aid overpayment" after asking about it, and then proceeded to spend the money. If I had a similar experience, randomly receiving a payment from my university, I would probably do the same thing. After verifying that the money was supposed to be mine, I would probably spend it as I would see fit. Nothing wrong with that. The university made the mistake. The students should not be punished for a mistake on the part of the university, and you should not make sweeping judgments about students in a particular course of study.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
University looks pretty pathetic here. If you've got some high interest rate debt piled up eating you alive and you get $4K from an apparent overpayment, check to make sure its legit...are you going to sit on it for 6 months to make sure it wasn't a mistake? Naw, you're going to get rid of the bills. Sure, he still owes it but its a pretty shitty thing to hold his diploma hostage like a dick when they're pretty much 100% in the wrong here.

I had a scholarship when I was in college, $2K a year. So I keep my GPA up and then I just have to send in some form every year to renew it. Well, despite the fact I can be fairly lazy with paperwork $2K is a lot of money so as soon as the new form was available I filled it out and got it sent in nice and early so I didn't have to worry about it. So the deadline comes and goes and the fuckers send me a letter saying since I didn't send in my renewal I lost the scholarship. A bunch of phone calls and they tell me I'm screwed. I sent it in so long ago I start to think maybe I just imagined the whole thing.

Luckily they found it filed away in a spot they didn't think to look. Turns out I sent it in "so early" that they didn't have the right place to file it. I briefly considered driving a dumptruck full of fertilizer into the financial aid office.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,912
2,146
126
If he was told it was an overpayment I bet he could win a lawsuit to keep it.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,236
12,564
136
Originally posted by: Rachael
Your comment on this seems unreasonably judgmental. The student was told it was a "financial aid overpayment" after asking about it, and then proceeded to spend the money. If I had a similar experience, randomly receiving a payment from my university, I would probably do the same thing. After verifying that the money was supposed to be mine, I would probably spend it as I would see fit. Nothing wrong with that. The university made the mistake. The students should not be punished for a mistake on the part of the university, and you should not make sweeping judgments about students in a particular course of study.

Rachael, pretty lady, my comments in this are intentionally "unreasonably judgemental."
They are designed to get some discussion going.

Yes, the university IS at fault...or at least their IT people are at fault...

Criswell-Bloom said a glitch happened while the university was changing the database system that tracks student accounts, mistakenly showing $4,000 credits to the 12 students. The students automatically were sent $4,000 refund checks.

The school HAS been lenient with this in that they ARE permitting the students to set up re-payment schedules and monthly installment plans.

Does the fact that the school made a mistake relieve the students from repaying the overpaid funds?


Originally posted by: Fritzo
If he was told it was an overpayment I bet he could win a lawsuit to keep it.

Unless his inquiry and the reply were in written form, it'd come down to a "He said, she said" argument. I suspect the university would win in a court of law.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: BoomerD
The school HAS been lenient with this in that they ARE permitting the students to set up re-payment schedules and monthly installment plans.

Does the fact that the school made a mistake relieve the students from repaying the overpaid funds?

I missed that part in the OP. I'm on the fence though. If I were in their situation, I'd probably bitch as loud and as much as possible too...before finally giving in at some point.

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
You may also question if the students were not receiving financial aid from the school; why would they expect a check label overpayment/credit financial aid
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Does the fact that the school made a mistake relieve the students from repaying the overpaid funds?

No, but the school should not withhold transcripts and degrees because of it either.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You may also question if the students were not receiving financial aid from the school; why would they expect a check label overpayment/credit financial aid

It's pretty easy to believe that 100% of 12 students would be using financial aid for a masters program.

Regardless, if the system shows an overpayment but the student isn't using financial aid, then instead of receiving a mailer stating "financial aid overpayment refund", maybe they got a mailer stating "tuition overpayment refund". Or the error only occurred for students on financial aid.

Otherwise, yeah, they certainly should have had a clue.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: bsobel
Does the fact that the school made a mistake relieve the students from repaying the overpaid funds?

No, but the school should not withhold transcripts and degrees because of it either.

I agree, but they probably won't get all their money back if they didn't hold the transcripts.
 

Brutus04

Senior member
Jul 30, 2007
656
0
76
Any MBA (MBA student for that matter) that cannot figure out the right thing to do here should not be allowed to graduate with an MBA. Do you think your bank or utility company would write it off as a mistake...I don't think so...welcome to the real world. If you have to get the lawyers involved were all screwed. I think it was the MBAs and this mentality that got us into the mess we are in now...obviously no learning has taken place.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,868
1,516
126
Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You may also question if the students were not receiving financial aid from the school; why would they expect a check label overpayment/credit financial aid

It's pretty easy to believe that 100% of 12 students would be using financial aid for a masters program.

Myself and 3 other co-workers have are in or have completed MBA programs getting tuition reimbursement from our company but no Financial Aid, so I wouldn't think that it would be easy to believe.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,462
996
126
Originally posted by: Fritzo
If he was told it was an overpayment I bet he could win a lawsuit to keep it.

The keyword is overpayment. Most financial aid offices use the term refund. Overpayment means they overpaid, not refund.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
MBAs = the "whiz kids" that drove the world economy into its present financial ruin.

 
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