Originally posted by: NanoStuff
If it's $250, maybe worth it, maybe.
If it's $400, I point and laugh.
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
why the hell would it be $250
Originally posted by: chizow
Not a horrible part (based mostly on FPSLabs' review since its the most complete English review). Certainly has a niche being priced around 2x of a single 3870 and supports those who can't go CrossFire or only have one 16x PCIe port. Main concerns would be noise, as FPSLabs didn't pull any punches saying the card was loud enough to drown out passing trains.....
Another big concern is that this card's performance, moreso than any typical CF/SLi set-up will be at the mercy of continued driver support from ATi. Given CF/SLi support in their current native forms, specialized CF drivers or game-specific optimizations for this card is a pretty big gamble imo. I can see this part being orphaned pretty quickly if ATI manages a single-card solution that performs similarly in the next 6-12 months.
It just shows AMD feigned indifference to the high-end only because they didn't have a competitive part. I don't think anyone expected AMD to can R700, its just a matter of when they'll get it out and how competitive it is then.Originally posted by: apoppin
What it shows is that AMD is trying to be competitive and that they haven't given up on the "high end"
-so that should set that rumor to rest for good ... we can *expect* r700
AMD did orphan the 2900XT but it wouldn't adversely impact support going forward since its still only a single-card configuration that doesn't rely on CrossFire for performance. Its still R600 path, so as long as the 3850/3870 are supported the 2900XT should as well. Don't forget there were rumors even before the 2900XT was launched that ATI would pass on R600 at 80nm or w/e it is and instead go right to 55nm, which is exactly what RV670 is. Instead they released 2900XT on a limited run, probably because the 55nm RV670 wasn't quite ready.AMD didn't "orphan" its "dustbuster" - 2900xt - and we can expect them to continue to support CrossFire and X2 configurations. Their r700 is a sure bet to eventually show up as X2 - even it it kills 9800ultra at launch
[unlikely to kill the ultra]
... as long as they stay in business.
strangely, the Orphan 2900xt *still* competes with the top cards ... it's performance has increased greatly since its release with each successive driver release.Originally posted by: chizow
It just shows AMD feigned indifference to the high-end only because they didn't have a competitive part. I don't think anyone expected AMD to can R700, its just a matter of when they'll get it out and how competitive it is then.Originally posted by: apoppin
What it shows is that AMD is trying to be competitive and that they haven't given up on the "high end"
-so that should set that rumor to rest for good ... we can *expect* r700
AMD did orphan the 2900XT but it wouldn't adversely impact support going forward since its still only a single-card configuration that doesn't rely on CrossFire for performance. Its still R600 path, so as long as the 3850/3870 are supported the 2900XT should as well. Don't forget there were rumors even before the 2900XT was launched that ATI would pass on R600 at 80nm or w/e it is and instead go right to 55nm, which is exactly what RV670 is. Instead they released 2900XT on a limited run, probably because the 55nm RV670 wasn't quite ready.AMD didn't "orphan" its "dustbuster" - 2900xt - and we can expect them to continue to support CrossFire and X2 configurations. Their r700 is a sure bet to eventually show up as X2 - even it it kills 9800ultra at launch
[unlikely to kill the ultra]
... as long as they stay in business.
R680 is at risk however given the current CF/SLI support situation, since its a CF solution with a specialized driver that shows it as a single-card solution. That means ATI will continually have to tweak its drivers specifically for the 3870 X2. Given the massive performance increases optimized drivers and profiles can make with CF/SLI, the R680 will have to pray it doesn't become an oversight in the future.
As for R700 being a sure bet to show up in X2 configuration, again, I wouldn't bet on it. That really depends on what kind of transistor count and thermal envelope we see with the next-gen cards. Keep in mind this generation of X2 parts are only made possible with optical shrinks of existing architecture and are essentially a stop-gap until the next gen.
:QFinal Thoughts and Conclusions
In the introduction we said that if the HD 3870 X2 performed better than the 8800Ultra then, considering price points, its release would effectively be as impressive as the launch of the 8800GT. Well, what we?ve seen today is a clear indication that the R680-based video card is definitely superior to the 8800Ultra, which maintains a street price of well over $600. MSRP of the HD 3870 X2 is set at $449 ?a bargain considering the HD 3870, essentially half of the X2, goes for about $230. Now, given AMD?s recent history of availability woes, we don?t expect very many of these cards to be available for $449. Then again, a trip to the major e-tailers doesn?t exactly produce too many results for 8800GT?s at MSRP. All of these things considered, it is hard to gage whether or not the HD 3870 X2 will be successful in the marketplace.
But that?s only due to the inevitable limited availability and subsequent price gouging ?the HD 3870 X2 would sell like hotcakes if success was based on performance alone. To say the X2 is an enthusiast level card would be a drastic understatement. Our tests have shown that the Radeon HD 3870 X2 belongs at the very top of the graphics performance chart. The R680-based part is clearly the very best single-card solution available, and will remain there at least until later in the quarter when NVIDIA releases their product refreshes. Ahh, but there?s that nagging ?single-card solution? term again. Is the HD 3870 X2 really a single card? Surely it is more of a single card than the GeForce 7950GX2 was a single card. It only takes up two slots, just as a typical single card would. Then again, it certainly consumes the power that a dual-card setup would, and it definitely makes enough noise and produces enough heat to fool people into thinking it?s really two cards. When referring to the X2 as a ?single card? to AMD reps, they replied, ?well, it?s two GPUs??, alluding to the fact that calling R680 the best single-card solution available is somewhat of a questionable statement in and of itself.
Whatever you call it, it most definitely has earned AMD the graphics performance crown that it has been craving for well over a year now. ...
It only takes up two slots, just as a typical single card would. Then again, it certainly consumes the power that a dual-card setup would, and it definitely makes enough noise and produces enough heat to fool people into thinking it?s really two cards.
How is that a surprise? The 2900XT isn't a horrible part, it was just 6 months late, way too loud and way too hot. And that's before getting into costs and yields given how quickly AMD rushed to push it EOL and replace it with the RV670.Originally posted by: apoppin
strangely, the Orphan 2900xt *still* competes with the top cards ... it's performance has increased greatly since its release with each successive release.
I do think both NV and ATI are committed to their multi-GPU solutions, but as we've seen they're almost always a day late and a buck short when it comes to performance. With the 3870 you're adding another layer of complexity and support to a solution that already suffers from late fixes to bring performance in-line with expectations. If the 3870 X2 doesn't sell well or is a limited run product, you'd expect CF support at best, and being totally forgotten at worst (with its specialized drivers).of course nothing is "sure" but AMD is *committed* to CrossFire and it is very likely that they will continue to support their X2s
Would you settle for a "very likely"?
I typically don't read conclusions, except AT's (although theirs have degraded recently as well), for this very reason. How does the 3870 clearly take the performance crown when it doesn't even beat a single GT in many of the tests? If they said it took the price to performance crown, sure, but if its not beating an Ultra all the time, its simply not taking the performance crown. And even then, that price to performance crown was claimed 3 months ago when the 8800GT was released and did a better job of competing against the Ultra when paired up in SLI than the 3870 X2 does.and check out the conclusions:
http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews...-3870-x2-review/page-9
:QFinal Thoughts and Conclusions
In the introduction we said that if the HD 3870 X2 performed better than the 8800Ultra then, considering price points, its release would effectively be as impressive as the launch of the 8800GT. Well, what we?ve seen today is a clear indication that the R680-based video card is definitely superior to the 8800Ultra, which maintains a street price of well over $600. MSRP of the HD 3870 X2 is set at $449 ?a bargain considering the HD 3870, essentially half of the X2, goes for about $230. Now, given AMD?s recent history of availability woes, we don?t expect very many of these cards to be available for $449. Then again, a trip to the major e-tailers doesn?t exactly produce too many results for 8800GT?s at MSRP. All of these things considered, it is hard to gage whether or not the HD 3870 X2 will be successful in the marketplace.
Once You Know, You Newegg
But that?s only due to the inevitable limited availability and subsequent price gouging ?the HD 3870 X2 would sell like hotcakes if success was based on performance alone. To say the X2 is an enthusiast level card would be a drastic understatement. Our tests have shown that the Radeon HD 3870 X2 belongs at the very top of the graphics performance chart. The R680-based part is clearly the very best single-card solution available, and will remain there at least until later in the quarter when NVIDIA releases their product refreshes. Ahh, but there?s that nagging ?single-card solution? term again. Is the HD 3870 X2 really a single card? Surely it is more of a single card than the GeForce 7950GX2 was a single card. It only takes up two slots, just as a typical single card would. Then again, it certainly consumes the power that a dual-card setup would, and it definitely makes enough noise and produces enough heat to fool people into thinking it?s really two cards. When referring to the X2 as a ?single card? to AMD reps, they replied, ?well, it?s two GPUs??, alluding to the fact that calling R680 the best single-card solution available is somewhat of a questionable statement in and of itself.
Whatever you call it, it most definitely has earned AMD the graphics performance crown that it has been craving for well over a year now. ...
Just saw the edit but the real question is....Originally posted by: apoppin
Would you settle for a "very likely"? ... i'd bet on it.
Originally posted by: chizow
Just saw the edit but the real question is....Originally posted by: apoppin
Would you settle for a "very likely"? ... i'd bet on it.
Would you bet on it with your own money by buying it?
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI finally beat a G80 for ultimate performance crown after 1 and half year sad really :!
Anyways now they just need to sell it at $450 and it will be a good seller.