Unstable system---crashes ---- Will this help?

[Bugler]

I have been fighting my system since last Friday. It is a P4 with xp-pro. I am not a computer geez yet, but trying to get that way.

They system has been stable for three years until Friday. I run norton internet security 2004 and update and scan daily, so i do not think the problem is a virus. On friday, I tried to use the cd copy section of my roxio software for the first time. It could not find a file so I got out my applications cd and found the file, when i clicked on it, my system locked up and everything went down hill from there.

My system began crashing or failing to completely boot up. Other times it will run for a few minutes and then everything will just freeze with no warning messages. Still other times, I will get the blue screen with debug errors like paged fault in non paged area or IRQL no less and or equal (something like that).

On friday, when things went bad, it stopped finding my cd burner device. Thinking that xp-pro would find and reinstall the device driver, I got out the xp-pro cd and tried to fix the problem. My original xp operating system is in C:\winnt. Apparently, I started to reinstall the system, but into c:\windows. However, since my system continued to crash, I never got a full install of this second system. On reboot, the system starting asking me which XP pro system I wanted to start, the original one or the partial one.

I went to the microsoft site and tried to follow the instructions to remove the second system. I deleleted the c:\windows version, (when my system was not crashing) and attempted to fix the boot.ini file so that it would no longer pause to ask me what system I wanted. However, now it still pauses, but it ask me if I want to install winxp pro or default. It is all the same one, so I am not sure why it stops there.

Anyway, that is only a nuisance compared to my big problems. The system continues to crash or freeze, fail to fully boot with the debug errors mentioned above. The problem is that it does not do so consistently, meaning sometimes I get the blue screen, but most times the system just hangs after being up for a minute or so.

I am lost at what to try next. I do not understand the debugging stuff enough to do it correctly. I do not want to do a format on my current drive as I have a lot of wedding photos, tax records, etc. on there, which I cannot move because the system crashes too quickly.

Yesterday, I purchased a new harddrive, if it comes to that. My thought was that I could take the current harddrive out, put the new one in, and do a fresh system. Thereafter, I would put my current harddrive back in as a slave, just to grab the info off of it. Would this work? Would this fix the debugging errors and hangs?

I really don't want to do this, as I was hoping to return the opened new harddrive, since I have no need for it. I purchased it as a last resort, but I am building a new AMD sata machine and those harddrives arrived today.

Before I tried the new hard drive, could I simply reload xp-pro over the original xp directory in c:\winnt? Would this fix the problem? How do I get the system to stay up long enough or not freeze, while this is being installed?

I am sorry to ask so much, but I am lost here. Your assistance is requested and very much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Fern]

Well I can't really comment on win XP as I don't use it.

But, you might check whether these probs are caused by faulty ram or the psu. Memtest86 is a free progie for d/l that will test the ram to see if it's unstable.

As far as the psu, Motherboard Monitor 5 is another free proggie that will monitor your psu's voltages. When you install it, look on the lower left of it's main screen and select the option "sys log" (or something very similar). You then choose to have the data recorded to a text.doc in intervals of one second or so. It will record you psu voltages, temps etc. When there's a crash go back and see if the voltage fluctuated thus causing the crash. Check the temps too. Maybe "dust bunnies" have built up over the years/months causing a heat problem.

Might wanna go to your hard drive manufacturers site and check for their HD diag proggie as well.

I'll try to post back with links for memtest86 ans MBM5

Fern

EDIT: Link to Memtest86
Link to MBM5

 

[Bugler]

Fern, thank you for your help.

I have four sticks of memory, so the otherday, I moved those in and out, two at a time, with no changed results.

In addition, as I am gathering parts to build a new AMD machine, I put my new OCZ 520 purepower supply in, and still no change.

Also, I tried two other graphics cards, and still no change.

My problem is loading new software on the system to test it, as the machine crashes every few moments.

I also had the case open with a 20 inch fan blowing in to rule out overheating. Still no change.

 

[HeddaLora]

Some things you can try:

-- Check the power supply

-- Delete all temp files (c:\windows\temp\*.tmp or similar directory on XP)

-- Delete temporary internet files (c:\windows\temporary internet files\*.* or similar directory on XP)

-- If you use I.E., click on Tools, Internet Options, Delete Files, select "delete all off-line content", click OK

-- Click on Start, Programs, Accessories, Systems Tools, Disk Cleanup

-- Download AdAware, check for updates, run it and remove whatever it finds

-- Download Diskeeper and defrag

 

[Bugler]

Originally posted by: HeddaLora
Some things you can try:

-- Check the power supply

-- Delete all temp files (c:\windows\temp\*.tmp or similar directory on XP)

-- Delete temporary internet files (c:\windows\temporary internet files\*.* or similar directory on XP)

-- If you use I.E., click on Tools, Internet Options, Delete Files, select "delete all off-line content", click OK

-- Click on Start, Programs, Accessories, Systems Tools, Disk Cleanup

-- Download AdAware, check for updates, run it and remove whatever it finds

-- Download Diskeeper and defrag

Any tips on how I keep the computer running while I am doing all that?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bugler

Originally posted by: HeddaLora
Some things you can try:

-- Check the power supply

-- Delete all temp files (c:\windows\temp\*.tmp or similar directory on XP)

-- Delete temporary internet files (c:\windows\temporary internet files\*.* or similar directory on XP)

-- If you use I.E., click on Tools, Internet Options, Delete Files, select "delete all off-line content", click OK

-- Click on Start, Programs, Accessories, Systems Tools, Disk Cleanup

-- Download AdAware, check for updates, run it and remove whatever it finds

-- Download Diskeeper and defrag

Any tips on how I keep the computer running while I am doing all that?

You said:

>>into c:\windows. However, since my system continued to crash, I never got a full install of this second >>system.

Hence you're saying it crashes during a normal XP install, hence you've got a hardware problem, so the software suggestions above probably won't help. I'd take it back to the vendor and have them check it out.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bugler
I am lost at what to try next. I do not understand the debugging stuff enough to do it correctly. I do not want to do a format on my current drive as I have a lot of wedding photos, tax records, etc. on there, which I cannot move because the system crashes too quickly.

Yesterday, I purchased a new harddrive, if it comes to that. My thought was that I could take the current harddrive out, put the new one in, and do a fresh system. Thereafter, I would put my current harddrive back in as a slave, just to grab the info off of it. Would this work? Would this fix the debugging errors and hangs?
Thanks

I'd build your new system (using the new HDD) and then put this hard drive into the new system as a secondary drive, and copy your data over, and *then* I'd continue to troubleshoot the bad system.

 

[Bugler]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Bugler
I am lost at what to try next. I do not understand the debugging stuff enough to do it correctly. I do not want to do a format on my current drive as I have a lot of wedding photos, tax records, etc. on there, which I cannot move because the system crashes too quickly.

Yesterday, I purchased a new harddrive, if it comes to that. My thought was that I could take the current harddrive out, put the new one in, and do a fresh system. Thereafter, I would put my current harddrive back in as a slave, just to grab the info off of it. Would this work? Would this fix the debugging errors and hangs?
Thanks

I'd build your new system (using the new HDD) and then put this hard drive into the new system as a secondary drive, and copy your data over, and *then* I'd continue to troubleshoot the bad system.

Thank you for your help and guidance. I really hate to use this new 160 eide, since I just purchased two 200 gb sata hard drives to mirror each other once I build my AMD machine. I guess I will have to go ahead and open this 160 afterall, even though I will have no need for it in my new system, assuming, I can get the current 80gb going again in the current system.

 

[Fern]

Do you have a floppy?

If so, I'd still recommend you try Memtest86. Just unplugg your drives and boot to the floppy.

Next I'd try a bootable HD diag proggie (plug the drive abck in of course) just to rule out a borked HD, however slim that may be.

If your pc can't run memtest with the HD unplugged, you've ruled out a software problem (means ram/mobo/psu problem). Seems to me your trying to rule out a hardware prob by puting that new HD in. Why not save the $ and approach from the other side?

Fern

 

[Bugler]

Originally posted by: Fern
Do you have a floppy?

If so, I'd still recommend you try Memtest86. Just unplugg your drives and boot to the floppy.

Next I'd try a bootable HD diag proggie (plug the drive abck in of course) just to rule out a borked HD, however slim that may be.

If your pc can't run memtest with the HD unplugged, you've ruled out a software problem (means ram/mobo/psu problem). Seems to me your trying to rule out a hardware prob by puting that new HD in. Why not save the $ and approach from the other side?

Fern

Thanks Fern. I have been running memtest-86 and getting a bunch of errors. I am still trying to determine what they all mean. I have four sticks of rdram so I pull the ram two sticks at a time to experiment and move them around. There are two sets of two, but each set does not match the other set.

I am still going over the 22 page read me file to figure out what is what and to see if I can print the individual error screens so I can try to determine a pattern when I rotate the ram. I understand from the handout that other things beyond ram can causes these errors numbers. I have a bit more studying to do, but I am working on it.

I have been fighting this since last Friday and at least I have some progress. However, I guess I could plug in my hard drive and still have software issues caused by the hardware crashes. I presume that is possible.

I have another question. The other day when I was pulling ram to experiment, I accidently broke off one of the plastic retainer clips that releases the ram for removal. Will this affect anything, assuming I otherwise get the ram well seated in the slot?

Thank you very much and I am receptive to any suggestions you have.

 

[Bugler]

Inconsistent results with mem tester. Sometimes computer would just shut down. Other times, I would get an "unexpected Interrupt - Halt", type gen prot, then the word Stack with a bunch of columns of numbers below it.

One time it said 4000 errors and the screen immediatly went into a bunch of wild colors. Moments later I restarted the computer and test, did not change a thing and got four errors, then 32, then the interrupt.

Still other times, I would get some general errors, like 100 around certain addresses in test #3.

 

[Fern]

I have another question. The other day when I was pulling ram to experiment, I accidently broke off one of the plastic retainer clips that releases the ram for removal. Will this affect anything, assuming I otherwise get the ram well seated in the slot?

IF you can keep it firmly seated, I'd think it OK.

Re: your memtest86 results - Looks to me like you've got a hardware problem for sure. Your OS may be hosed as a result too.

Do you have any spare parts (or access to some, e.g., borrow) to help with trouble shooting? Need to narrow it down between the ram, mobo, psu or even cpu.

Fern

 

[Bugler]

I have been picking up parts to build a new AMD machine, but most of them will not work in this rdram based Intel machine. I put my new OCZ 520 pure power supply on the machine, but still with the same results. I also tried two other video cards, and same results.

Other than that, my new ram will not work on this board. I don't have my new amd 939 board yet as I am waiting on DFI to come out with one. I will try to run the motherboardmonitor 5 program when I get home today. I loaded it this morning, but did not get a chance to run it before the machine locked up again.

Thank you so much for your assistance.

 

[Sideswipe001]

I'd be running memtest with as few sticks as possible. RDRAM requires pairs, right? Try one pair and see if you get ANY errors. If so, replace one of the sticks with another and try again. Try to get it to run once with NO errors. If you can make it run without errors with 2 of the sticks, you definitelty have a bad stick of RAM.

If it will never run stable, it's probably something more serious. Motherboard, processor, something like that. In either case, the hard drive is NOT the culprit.

 

[Bugler]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
I'd be running memtest with as few sticks as possible. RDRAM requires pairs, right? Try one pair and see if you get ANY errors. If so, replace one of the sticks with another and try again. Try to get it to run once with NO errors. If you can make it run without errors with 2 of the sticks, you definitelty have a bad stick of RAM.

If it will never run stable, it's probably something more serious. Motherboard, processor, something like that. In either case, the hard drive is NOT the culprit.

Thank you. I did that last night and I get errors regardless of whichever individual pair I have in there. Since I am getting the same crashes with my new power supply installed as i did with the old power supply, I think things are narrowing down to the motherboard or CPU.

Which now leads me to my recent post notated below.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...7&threadid=1412350

Any help you can provide is welcome.

 

[CTho9305]

For what it's worth, if the heatsink is full of dust, even a big fan blowing at the CPU may not help.