Upcoming MMOs

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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
I am curious why you say that would be right for me. In what way would it be different from other MMOs? I have honestly never considered it so I don't even really know anything about the game.

You can play like a highway man (I honestly believe it's encouraged). There is actual loss and there are plenty of ransoms over (character) life. It has a very steep learning curve, and is most definitely not suited to your average MMO player.
 

Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
71
So maybe it’s me, but I just never have understood MMOs. I get the social interaction thing, and teaming up against Big Baddies. But you can do that outside of MMOs and have much more fun doing it.

But here is the thing I don’t get. You never ever change anything. Nothing you can do actually matters. No monster (or player) you kill stays dead for more than a few moments. No item you can find is unique and isn’t already owned by a bajillion other players. There are no quests that you can go on which haven’t already been completed.

And as far as interaction with others, if someone really wants to be a jerk, there is never going to be a thing you can do about it. They can pester you and pester you. Even if you kill them, they just come back.

I used to play PWs for Neverwinter Nights 2. On the server, I wanted to play a highwayman. Basically I wanted to jump out from behind a tree and say “Your money or your life” and get money. Only no one ever gave money. And no one ever chased me down and vanquished me. Why? Because there was no punch or punishment if they died. Money was actually more valuable than life because you couldn’t lose your life in any meaningful way, but money was hard to come by. And it’s permanent loss was just that, permanent.

Most MMOs that I have experienced (I played Evercrack for more than a year and Asheron’s Call for a little while, plus some Free to play stuff more recently) weren’t any different.

I am not saying that I want to be a jerk or griefer. Merely that everything is sanitized and made so nicey, nicey that it is a buzzkill for the immersion to me. I play a lot of single player games and there is usually a goal or a bad guy to kill. And there is almost always something that changes when you do that. Usually you can actually WIN something. Not with MMOs.

There is no Victory so sweet, no betrayal sharp, no reward that is so uplifting, no sacrifice that has any sort of bitter sweet sting. And then it just feels like Facebook with a graphics lift.

So, what am I missing?

What you're missing is that MMO's are about grinding for Epic lootz, nothing more. In an MMO where you can actually have an impact, such as EVE online, only the elite players who play 24/7 can really have much of an effect on the world. Everyone else just gets ganked.
 

TheUnk

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2005
1,810
0
71
What you're missing is that MMO's are about grinding for Epic lootz, nothing more.

Maybe for you.

Some people enjoy the journey and aren't just focused on the final destination (farming for your "epic lootz" set)
 
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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Some people enjoy the journey and aren't just focused on the final destination (farming for your "epic lootz" set)

Yep, like me. That's why EVE has been the only MMO that I've ever been able to play for more than an hour. But that game just asks for too much time.
 
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maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
Maybe for you.

Some people enjoy the journey and aren't just focused on the final destination (farming for your "epic lootz" set)

For me the "journey" is raiding. Leveling up to get to where you can raid, that's just...how should I put this...a universal prerequisite?

Getting the epic lootz doesn't have to be the focus but they do, for me, need to exist. The journey for me, while it can be enjoyable, cannot be its own purpose.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
That Secret World game looks silly to me. Like whats it supposed to be? Its in modern times but people are shooting fireballs like its a medieval fantasy game.




It's like the Dresden Files, and if you haven't read the series you should pick them up. Good fun books with a lot of humor.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
What you're missing is that MMO's are about grinding for Epic lootz, nothing more. In an MMO where you can actually have an impact, such as EVE online, only the elite players who play 24/7 can really have much of an effect on the world. Everyone else just gets ganked.

So yea, this is more or less what I feared. Grinding is not fun to me. And Epic Loot isn't so Epic when ten bajillion other players have it already. Or when someone who doesn't have a life can grind through 18 hours a day for two weeks and get something that it would take me the better part of two years to get.

What i like about Single player games is your Avatar is actually "The Hero", not Adventurer1236549562. Your powers and abilities are unique, or at least in a select few. And what you do has impact and weight. And no, grinding for loot package 5328 and being one of only ten million that have that same package, just isn't very much fun. To me.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
You can play like a highway man (I honestly believe it's encouraged). There is actual loss and there are plenty of ransoms over (character) life. It has a very steep learning curve, and is most definitely not suited to your average MMO player.

So my intent is not to "Play a Highwayman" but to have the option. Or to be able to play that Paladin that actually slays the Dragon for all time. Or the Ranger who staves the tide of the Orc hoard by single handedly (or collectively with a group) taking out the Orc Band leader.

In short, I don't want to come back the next day and see the exact same scenario plaguing the exact same people all over again. And I don't want to play a game where your life has zero value because death is nothing more than a momentary inconvenience.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136
I'd love a free for all PvP MMO game with guild controlled resources/cities , the main problem with these is time zone issues (euro guilds attacking cities while NA players are sleeping\working and vice/versa )

/with good crafting system
//decaying items and fully lootable corpses
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
I'd love a free for all PvP MMO game with guild controlled resources/cities , the main problem with these is time zone issues (euro guilds attacking cities while NA players are sleeping\working and vice/versa )

/with good crafting system
//decaying items and fully lootable corpses

That's not really the problem because they need to make specific regional servers available and people should pick their region's server for lag purposes anyway. The real problem is people that have all day to play.

Also, you can't have the powerful items be rare and difficult to obtain if you can be looted in pvp. It has to be more like UO where you can re-craft or buy more crafted gear, because otherwise the pkers will simply run around naked, hoarding their gank gains in the bank. I'm all for ganking, it's the best way to PvP, but the game can't be so chaotic as that.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
How is GW2 not an MMO?


people are weird. they have their assumption of what --x-- is supposed to be. Get bored with --x--, want something new that does --x--differently. When another --x-- is fun, it is just a clone of the previous, popular --x--

When a new --x-- actually does something differently and is still quite fun, then it isn't really --x-- and so can never be part of the argument. these people are never satisfied

people are funny that way.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Also, you can't have the powerful items be rare and difficult to obtain if you can be looted in pvp. It has to be more like UO where you can re-craft or buy more crafted gear, because otherwise the pkers will simply run around naked, hoarding their gank gains in the bank. I'm all for ganking, it's the best way to PvP, but the game can't be so chaotic as that.

UO is one way to do it, but there is a pvp MUD I played for a long time that had both ridiculously strong items and PvP item loss on death. It worked fine, because while the strong items gave an advantage in pvp, to use them in pvp you always risked dying and losing them- kind of a built in balancing function.

Also, most power items were limited to 3, 2, or 1 copies in the game. so if a player already killed the big nasty boss that drops it and collected the "limit 1" elite item, it was his and his only. nobody else could kill the mob and get one, they instead had to kill the player who had it.

This type of system is a lot of fun and I could see it working in a larger MMO, with some sanity checks to prevent abuses. For example, mechanics to discourage players from getting the super elite limit 1 item and just logging out to keep it safe forever- after certain length of time offline the item would decay and reset on the mob.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
UO is one way to do it, but there is a pvp MUD I played for a long time that had both ridiculously strong items and PvP item loss on death. It worked fine, because while the strong items gave an advantage in pvp, to use them in pvp you always risked dying and losing them- kind of a built in balancing function.

Also, most power items were limited to 3, 2, or 1 copies in the game. so if a player already killed the big nasty boss that drops it and collected the "limit 1" elite item, it was his and his only. nobody else could kill the mob and get one, they instead had to kill the player who had it.

This type of system is a lot of fun and I could see it working in a larger MMO, with some sanity checks to prevent abuses. For example, mechanics to discourage players from getting the super elite limit 1 item and just logging out to keep it safe forever- after certain length of time offline the item would decay and reset on the mob.

It does sound fun, but nevertheless it does away with the kind of fun to be had from having powerful gear and that also means the game makers can't balance end game encounters based on what a well equipped guild can get.

I'd say the most likely compromise is coin loot and/or exp loss in pvp. After all, for gear to be lootable it has to be tradeable, and too many games are already destroying the fun for everyone in order to stop a few people who might sell gear for real cash. Although I say the day is eventually coming when that is simply accepted.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
just out of curiosity, how is it that MMOs can get away with copying wow right down the user interface? Seems like if first person shooters did that, there'd be lawsuits.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136
That's not really the problem because they need to make specific regional servers available and people should pick their region's server for lag purposes anyway. The real problem is people that have all day to play.

Also, you can't have the powerful items be rare and difficult to obtain if you can be looted in pvp. It has to be more like UO where you can re-craft or buy more crafted gear, because otherwise the pkers will simply run around naked, hoarding their gank gains in the bank. I'm all for ganking, it's the best way to PvP, but the game can't be so chaotic as that.

Agree with the crafting thing.....maybe have it like AC was where you got to keep 1-2 items....
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
A real MMO is a PvP mmo. Otherwise whats the point of paying for a single player game each month.

Pure PvP MMOs tend to attract the worst, and lowest, sort of people imaginable, usually children playing under their parents credit cards or dead beat adults working minimum wage jobs. There's nothing wrong with PvP in selected areas, but its simply not fun to be killed by a player 4x your level.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
Pure PvP MMOs tend to attract the worst, and lowest, sort of people imaginable, usually children playing under their parents credit cards or dead beat adults working minimum wage jobs. There's nothing wrong with PvP in selected areas, but its simply not fun to be killed by a player 4x your level.

I think those are two separate concepts. I don't like it when PvP is limited to selected areas, but I agree that it's not fun for a level 50 killing level 10s. That's why I always say I like EQ's Rallos Zek server. PvP is active anywhere but the safe-to-AFK zones like Plane of Knowledge or Bazaar, but you can only attack people within 4 levels of you. Although EQ's class balancing in terms of the ability to put up a good fight against other classes is not that good, it definitely does it right in terms of who, where and how you can attack people, and ways in which you can avoid PvP. You can easily escape from PvP but if you do you sacrifice the ability to be exping wherever you were exping when you were attacked. This is why games with limited PvP areas suck, this is why games where you can race to max level in 3 weeks with no grinding suck(cough TOR cough), etc.

But I don't understand the fascination MMO companies have with making max levels able to attack levels 1 and falsely balancing it by limiting the PvP areas. It should be the other way around, a reasonable level range and PvP everywhere.

Also, there should of course be PvP servers that players CHOOSE to go on, and they could choose PvE if they don't want to. Which a game like The Secret World, unless something has changed, is failing to do, from what I can tell they will have warzone/battlefront pvp only, no open world PvP and no PvP servers with open pvp either.

That's the other thing PvP servers do, if you have 30 PvE and 4-5 PvP servers, the PvP servers tend to siphon the griefers off from the PvE servers. Note that I don't consider things like constantly hunting your enemies down griefing, griefing is things like training NPCs on to players on a PvE server(I think it's fair game to do that on PvP servers).
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136
Pure PvP MMOs tend to attract the worst, and lowest, sort of people imaginable, usually children playing under their parents credit cards or dead beat adults working minimum wage jobs. There's nothing wrong with PvP in selected areas, but its simply not fun to be killed by a player 4x your level.



So you are a carebear who cannot handle confrontation, fine, don't play pvp mmo's, and your generalization of those who enjoy pvp mmo's is a joke
 

pathos

Senior member
Aug 12, 2009
461
0
0
Personally I'm interested in Tera, Guild Wars 2, and Blade and Soul.

I'm probably most interested in Blade and Soul. But, thats because I think a game based around kung fu would be awesome.

But, since I know very little about the actual mechanics of the game, nor have I heard any peep about it actually getting released here, much less it being released anytime in the next 10 years if so, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Plus, I haven't seen much interest in the game from just about anyone. Add in the fact its a Korean game, so will most likely have the Korean grind most people (including me) love to hate, I don't particularly like its chances
 
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