Upcoming MMOs

[pontifex]

I hope that was a joke. GW2 has nothing original in it, at all.

Its the same thing every MMO does.

The beta for them was nothing exciting or new that other MMO have not done in the past, its still questing "kill this many mobs" "go here and come back".

Warhammer online did the event quests to, that did not turn out well to. I'm sure people will flock to it because its free monthly, but still its the same thing as other MMO.

So did Rift

 

[abaez]

Bought Tera last night and got to level 8 or something. Seems pretty great right now. Love that you actually have to have some modicum of timing and skill to not get hit. Reminds me of the timing needed for the skillchains in a group in FFXI. We'll see how it goes on Saturday.

Edit: Has anyone tried it with an xbox controller or is that a lost cause?

 

[oddyager]

Is anyone playing the TERA Open Beta this weekend? The combat so far seems to be somewhat of a revelation for MMO's, the character controls are tight and the movements precise. You do not target enemies, instead you face their direction and start hacking away while firing off hotkey'ed special attacks as they're available. There's a dodge mechanic to avoid getting hit, the enemies pack a lot of punch so you'll need it but they have predictable attack animations allowing you to avoid taking damage as long as you're paying attention. It's involving and so far it seems to work exactly like it should.
.

Combat sounds a lot like Turbine's DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online for those who never heard of it).

 

[NoSoup4You]

DDO's combat was pretty solid, but not very flashy. TERA's combat is most similar to the spectacle fighters on console like God of War, except there's a deep MMO stats system underneath...etc.

To the other person that asked about the xbox 360 controller, I dumped about 15 hours into TERA this weekend and 13 of those were with the 360 controller. It works perfectly and you are not handicapped for using it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The beta for them was nothing exciting or new that other MMO have not done in the past, its still questing "kill this many mobs" "go here and come back".

Either it is sarcasm or troll.

One thing that GW2 doesn't do for sure is ask you to come back (rewards are on the fly) or to go somewhere (they tell you to go somewhere only in the personal story).

It is also different from Rift or Warhammer.

The dynamic events keep happening in the world regardless of you triggering them or not and they branch out depending on outcome and if you fail them there is a new event caused by the fail.

There is a big difference between taking a quest from an NPC, reading the text and having to imagine that those bandits wandering around aimless are threatening the world or at least that village and then after killing 10 believing that it changed anything when there is still dozens around and what GW2 do.

It is still questing, except it is dynamic questing - the bandits aren't always there wandering doing nothing, when they are around you don't have to imagine anything - they are pillaging and looting, people are screaming for help and there is fighting, as you can graphically see it and hear it.

Bandits were defeat they aren't there anymore. Maybe people will be able to go near the ruins where the bandit hideout use to be and find some magical item that release a demon. If they win the village might be a ruin now or maybe become a bandit base. The world changes.

Dynamic World vs Static Cardbox scenery.

 

[Mem]

Bought Tera last night and got to level 8 or something. Seems pretty great right now. Love that you actually have to have some modicum of timing and skill to not get hit. Reminds me of the timing needed for the skillchains in a group in FFXI. We'll see how it goes on Saturday.

Edit: Has anyone tried it with an xbox controller or is that a lost cause?

I played every class in Tera,nice graphics but did not like the combat or any of the classes,I think its a game you will either like or hate,end of the day I tried it over several closed beta weekends but its not for me.

Firefall and GW2 I will wait and see how they pan out.

 

[pontifex]

Either it is sarcasm or troll.

One thing that GW2 doesn't do for sure is ask you to come back (rewards are on the fly) or to go somewhere (they tell you to go somewhere only in the personal story).

It is also different from Rift or Warhammer.

The dynamic events keep happening in the world regardless of you triggering them or not and they branch out depending on outcome and if you fail them there is a new event caused by the fail.

There is a big difference between taking a quest from an NPC, reading the text and having to imagine that those bandits wandering around aimless are threatening the world or at least that village and then after killing 10 believing that it changed anything when there is still dozens around and what GW2 do.

It is still questing, except it is dynamic questing - the bandits aren't always there wandering doing nothing, when they are around you don't have to imagine anything - they are pillaging and looting, people are screaming for help and there is fighting, as you can graphically see it and hear it.

Bandits were defeat they aren't there anymore. Maybe people will be able to go near the ruins where the bandit hideout use to be and find some magical item that release a demon. If they win the village might be a ruin now or maybe become a bandit base. The world changes.

Dynamic World vs Static Cardbox scenery.

sounds interesting but i also see problems. how are they handling people who stumble into the event half way through or near the end?

So you never get to experience the same events that someone else might? Thats cool in a way but then you can't share that experience wit your friends if they weren't with you at the time.

yes its cool and more realistic to have random events like that but there's also something to be said for everyone being able to experience the same thing.

Also, how are doing this logistically? this happens all throughout the game? thats a lot of time and events. to set up depending on outcomes.
could be a very shitty experience if they don't put a lot of effort into it. or do they just loop it or reset the event?

game companies have made all kind of promises and claims that the game will do this or that and a lot of them never come true or are done very poorly.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

sounds interesting but i also see problems. how are they handling people who stumble into the event half way through or near the end?

So you never get to experience the same events that someone else might? Thats cool in a way but then you can't share that experience wit your friends if they weren't with you at the time.

yes its cool and more realistic to have random events like that but there's also something to be said for everyone being able to experience the same thing.

Also, how are doing this logistically? this happens all throughout the game? thats a lot of time and events. to set up depending on outcomes.
could be a very shitty experience if they don't put a lot of effort into it. or do they just loop it or reset the event?

game companies have made all kind of promises and claims that the game will do this or that and a lot of them never come true or are done very poorly.

I assume the random events are mini instances that only you/your group can encounter. Thant way it can be reasonably different for everyone but I'm not sure.

 

[HarvardAce]

I assume the random events are mini instances that only you/your group can encounter. Thant way it can be reasonably different for everyone but I'm not sure.

I haven't put any time into GW2, but based on the stuff I've read, it is not this way. It very much is that the world is alive around you -- if you're not around, then you will miss out on a particular specific battle. That said, my guess is that the stuff does somewhat repeat over time. I read it as basically a sort of "tug of war" between PCs (and their allied NPCs) and the enemy NPCs. Say an orc (does GW have orcs?) camp decides to send out an attacking party to a nearby town. If no one pushes back the attack, the town will likely be overrun by orcs in short time. It would then be up to the PCs to clear out the town of orcs and push them back to their camp (and maybe eliminate the camp). If, instead, the PCs stop the raid, they can then similarly push into the orc camp and destroy it. Whether the town "respawns" in the first scenario or not is not clear, nor is the method for sort of "undoing" any "absolute" resolutions to a particular scenario (i.e. if you clear out the orc camp, I'm assuming it will eventually come back by some means or otherwise it is possible that all camps could be eliminated).

Assuming the camp can somehow come back (or the town can somehow be "rebuilt" in the case where the town was not defended), then it's quite possible that in a period of time (hours? days?) a similar attack could come, so other players could experience a similar scenario, although the outcome could of course be very different based on the participation in the next iteration of that scenario.

 

[pontifex]

I haven't put any time into GW2, but based on the stuff I've read, it is not this way. It very much is that the world is alive around you -- if you're not around, then you will miss out on a particular specific battle. That said, my guess is that the stuff does somewhat repeat over time. I read it as basically a sort of "tug of war" between PCs (and their allied NPCs) and the enemy NPCs. Say an orc (does GW have orcs?) camp decides to send out an attacking party to a nearby town. If no one pushes back the attack, the town will likely be overrun by orcs in short time. It would then be up to the PCs to clear out the town of orcs and push them back to their camp (and maybe eliminate the camp). If, instead, the PCs stop the raid, they can then similarly push into the orc camp and destroy it. Whether the town "respawns" in the first scenario or not is not clear, nor is the method for sort of "undoing" any "absolute" resolutions to a particular scenario (i.e. if you clear out the orc camp, I'm assuming it will eventually come back by some means or otherwise it is possible that all camps could be eliminated).

Assuming the camp can somehow come back (or the town can somehow be "rebuilt" in the case where the town was not defended), then it's quite possible that in a period of time (hours? days?) a similar attack could come, so other players could experience a similar scenario, although the outcome could of course be very different based on the participation in the next iteration of that scenario.

i don't see how thats really much different than rift then

 

[HarvardAce]

i don't see how thats really much different than rift then

It's somewhat similar, except that if you don't defend the town, the mobs don't just despawn after a time. Additionally, the focus of the game is on these dynamic events -- there won't be many "static" quests. In other words, instead of the focus on static quests in Rift with rifts providing a distraction/disruption, it will be mostly dynamic content with a few more story-line quests around it.

The lack of a tank/damage/healer setup is definitely a big move from Rift, however, as that follows a more traditional setup (although you can in Rift switch from damage/tank/healing fairly easily with the same character). GW2 also has a different approach to grouping -- anyone who attacks a particular mob gets their own exp and loot, so there's no mob stealing. It's somewhat similar to the public groups that Rift has, but without the need to actually group up.

Edit: If you are really interested in learning more, there's a whole thread on the A/T forums: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2220374.

Additionally, a great primer (what really got me interested in the game) can be found here (which was previously linked in this very thread): http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1058358-Guild-Wars-2-Mass-info-for-the-uninitiated.-READ-ME

 

[GaiaHunter]

1.sounds interesting but i also see problems. how are they handling people who stumble into the event half way through or near the end?

2.So you never get to experience the same events that someone else might? Thats cool in a way but then you can't share that experience wit your friends if they weren't with you at the time.

yes its cool and more realistic to have random events like that but there's also something to be said for everyone being able to experience the same thing.

3.Also, how are doing this logistically? this happens all throughout the game? thats a lot of time and events. to set up depending on outcomes.
could be a very shitty experience if they don't put a lot of effort into it. or do they just loop it or reset the event?

4.game companies have made all kind of promises and claims that the game will do this or that and a lot of them never come true or are done very poorly.

I took the liberty of dividing your post in points instead of breaking it in several pieces.

So,

1. Each event has a progression meter. When the event is complete everyone is rewarded Gold, XP and Karma (pve currency that allows you to buy things, including max stats with unique appearance gear, from karma merchants) based on their participation level. Currently there are 3 participations levels, Gold, Silver and Bronze. You might have noticed you don't earn any items directly from dynamic events (unless it is a Meta Event boss, which will spawn a chest everyone can access and take their own generated loot).

So if you stumble it in the middle of the event or even if you started it but Real Life demand your attention and you have to leave, you will be rewarded.

Additionally Events scale up and down (more ads, bosses and ads gain additional skills, etc) according to the number of players actually participating (in press beta events some events scale perfectly but other became to easy if a big zerg of players was around, but it still is beta).

2. Events are in a chain, so they will eventually reach the end of the chain and go backwards.

Also, in GW2 there is instant travel through waypoints scattered around the map - once you find one you can always teleport there for a small gold fee. So you can tell your friends and they are able to join.

You can always go back and try to experience different events you missed.

Going back?. you say.

Sure, opposed to most games out there, there is a reason to go back - missed content.

Not only that but the content will remain challenging since you are automatically down levelled to match the zone you are (example, you are level 70 ang go back to a level 1-10 zone, your health, damage and other stats will be equivalent to a level 10-12. You will still be stronger, since you are a bit higher level and have more skills unlocked and more unlocked utility slots and elite skill, but you can still die. Total Biscuit was a level 30 down to 18 and still was getting challenged by the mobs in his assassin video).

Additionally the rewards and loot are also level appropriate - the Gold, XP and Karm you are rewarded will scale to your level and the gear you get will have level appropriate stats (in our example would be level 70 gear).

3. It isn't on a loop. Some events may never reset until a player takes action - for example centaurs took a village and established a fort. It will remain a centaur fort until players complete the event "help the forces of divinity reach retake the village x", so even if you are alone you will be surrounded by friendly npcs fighting the centaurs. Unlike Rift.

4. True. But the hype comes from the videos and commentaries the press was able to put out during the closed beta weekend events not promises.

After next weekend I'll be able to deliver first hand experience.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Are there any MMOs coming out that are so good that one should not miss the opportunity to play them at release? If not, I've been playing EQ again, figure I'd spend a while on that, maybe something in 2013 will be good?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

When all these games are released, someone should do a comparison write up of TSW, TERA and GW2. In fact, it would be nice if we had an ongoing Anandtech "What MMO Should I Play" sticky thread.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Are there any MMOs coming out that are so good that one should not miss the opportunity to play them at release? If not, I've been playing EQ again, figure I'd spend a while on that, maybe something in 2013 will be good?

I think you shouldn't miss GW2.

Just the fact that people are actively cooperating and helping each other, resurrecting complete strangers and are actually rewarded for that is a completely different approach.

Additionally as you progress out of the 1-17 level areas the dynamic event chains start to get longer lasting and deeper effects in the area.

For $60 with no sub fees, it is a no-brainer.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I think you shouldn't miss GW2.

Just the fact that people are actively cooperating and helping each other, resurrecting complete strangers and are actually rewarded for that is a completely different approach.

Additionally as you progress out of the 1-17 level areas the dynamic event chains start to get longer lasting and deeper effects in the area.

For $60 with no sub fees, it is a no-brainer.

Well, there are 4 areas in which I evaluate an MMO:
1. PvP
2. Casualization(ie, no grinding at all, extremely short time to max level, quests tell you down to the pixel where to go, etc). Just to be clear, casualization is bad as far as I'm concerned.
3. Graphics
4. Other fun factors based on the game specifically

Now, I know GW2 and TSW apparently have consensual only warfront PvP, so that's a minus. I don't know about TERA.

How is GW2 going to be on graphics and casualization? I was just watching a TERA video and it looks very good.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Well, there are 4 areas in which I evaluate an MMO:
1. PvP
2. Casualization(ie, no grinding at all, extremely short time to max level, quests tell you down to the pixel where to go, etc). Just to be clear, casualization is bad as far as I'm concerned.
3. Graphics
4. Other fun factors based on the game specifically

Now, I know GW2 and TSW apparently have consensual only warfront PvP, so that's a minus. I don't know about TERA.

How is GW2 going to be on graphics and casualization? I was just watching a TERA video and it looks very good.

There is no open world FFA pvp, but there is really good WvW siege warfare, taking down castles, escorting and raiding supply convoys (you need supply to build siege engines, upgrade keeps and towers, recruit npcs to depends your keeps and outposts). IMO that beats world PvP griefing, but that is just me.

Grinding is reduced (or it feels reduced since it is actually fun), it takes longer to level at the lower levels compared to other games but actually I was always startled when I leveled since I was having so much fun I didn't even care if I was close to level or not. Supposedly the time required to level remains constant through all the levels.

There are some pointers to areas where stuff happen, but you can just go anywhere and find stuff - loads of stuff is just hidden and out of the way (in fact I would say that if you just follow the hearts you are doing it wrong and it will feel grindy).

Graphics are good looking - they don't have the same amount of pixels as Tera or games like Crysis, but they have an awesome (at least in my opinion) art style and the world is extremely detailed.

Towns feel real towns, being massively and filled with npcs doing things and chatting.

Combat is fun and fluid (you need to keep moving, especially as melee) and once you start getting to higher level areas AI IS NASTY and can kill you really quickly if you think you can be half asleep.

Customization is very deep, with all the different weapons (weapons grant you your first 5 skills), different utility skills you can choose (but can only have 5 equipped at any given time and the trait system, with dozen of modifiers for skills and mechanics.

Crafting isn't pointless - you can obtain max stat level gear with unique skins you can't obtain otherwise.

The world feels alive, there is loads to explore and stuff happens without anyone intervention.

If you like to kill 10 rats, and then 10 dire rats, and then 10 plague rats, and 10 zombie rats, this isn't the game for you though. If you like that, Tera will be a better choice, being an asian grinder with better than standard combat and great graphics. Tera as open world FFA PvP and guilds can declare war on each other.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

There is no open world FFA pvp, but there is really good WvW siege warfare, taking down castles, escorting and raiding supply convoys (you need supply to build siege engines, upgrade keeps and towers, recruit npcs to depends your keeps and outposts). IMO that beats world PvP griefing, but that is just me-

On this specifically. Supply convoys in the WvW? Are those convoys manned by live players doing support roles or NPCs acting almost like trains running on a schedule?

I find this part very very interesting...

 

[GaiaHunter]

On this specifically. Supply convoys in the WvW? Are those convoys manned by live players doing support roles or NPCs acting almost like trains running on a schedule?

I find this part very very interesting...

It is an NPC beast of cargo that will move from one of your supply camps to a nearby tower/keep/caste controlled by your world. You can protect it or you can go and kill it to deprive/steal enemy resources.

This basically means that one can starve the big castles out and allows small groups of players to achieve things.

There are also some npc races that you can help so then they can join as npcs mercenaries helping you capture towers, supply camps and castles.

Ah, by the way you get loot from dead enemy players (you don't get their loot, they just drop loot as if they were mobs).

By the way did I tell you that you can destroy castle walls and not just the gate, for surprise backdoor attacks?

 

[zinfamous]

On this specifically. Supply convoys in the WvW? Are those convoys manned by live players doing support roles or NPCs acting almost like trains running on a schedule?

I find this part very very interesting...

I believe you either set up the convoys or maintain them. you need to collect supplies at various parts to build walls, artillary, and keep the convoys going

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

So what's the latest rumor on GW2 release date? I need to eliminate 2 of these 3 MMOs at some point and focus on one...I think the Secret World sounds like a good candidate to go ahead and forget about now, lol, unless anyone has comments on it based on my 4 point checklist above.

 

[zinfamous]

There is no open world FFA pvp, but there is really good WvW siege warfare, taking down castles, escorting and raiding supply convoys (you need supply to build siege engines, upgrade keeps and towers, recruit npcs to depends your keeps and outposts). IMO that beats world PvP griefing, but that is just me.

Grinding is reduced (or it feels reduced since it is actually fun), it takes longer to level at the lower levels compared to other games but actually I was always startled when I leveled since I was having so much fun I didn't even care if I was close to level or not. Supposedly the time required to level remains constant through all the levels.

There are some pointers to areas where stuff happen, but you can just go anywhere and find stuff - loads of stuff is just hidden and out of the way (in fact I would say that if you just follow the hearts you are doing it wrong and it will feel grindy).

Graphics are good looking - they don't have the same amount of pixels as Tera or games like Crysis, but they have an awesome (at least in my opinion) art style and the world is extremely detailed.

Towns feel real towns, being massively and filled with npcs doing things and chatting.

Combat is fun and fluid (you need to keep moving, especially as melee) and once you start getting to higher level areas AI IS NASTY and can kill you really quickly if you think you can be half asleep.

.

that's the main thing I notice. 80 max level --sure. But it doesn't feel like a grind--at least for the first 20 levels. On your first toon, at least, you don't really notice leveling. There is enough improvement from level to level to make a difference--but you also complete events for skill points, which can be obtained regardless of leveling, so there is the chance for constant improvement. I think that's one of the subtle things that keeps the grind feeling from setting in. Progression also remained constant for me up to level 20. But I wouldn't assume either/or that it should apply throughout.

 

[GaiaHunter]

So what's the latest rumor on GW2 release date? I need to eliminate 2 of these 3 MMOs at some point and focus on one...I think the Secret World sounds like a good candidate to go ahead and forget about now, lol, unless anyone has comments on it based on my 4 point checklist above.

2012 when it is ready.

 

[zinfamous]

2012 when it is ready.

yeah...the only date I have heard floated around is June 26, but that is based on nothing as far as I have found. Probably just some press speculation. Devs are completely mum.

Honestly--I feel that it could be ready by then, assuming all of the content unavailable in Beta was simply unavailable. As far as bugs go, the serious stuff could be ironed out by then. And there wasn't a whole lot to complain about as far as I know.

The biggest issue for me were server issues--overflow on crowded servers dividing parties, with no ability change instances. That needs to be fixed, and I have no idea what kind of lead time that is. The game needs direct trading and a more generous tutorial.

But, frankly...the dying and dying and dying over and over for the first several levels is a pretty good tutorial

 

[zinfamous]

There are some pointers to areas where stuff happen, but you can just go anywhere and find stuff - loads of stuff is just hidden and out of the way (in fact I would say that if you just follow the hearts you are doing it wrong and it will feel grindy).


Towns feel real towns, being massively and filled with npcs doing things and chatting.


Crafting isn't pointless - you can obtain max stat level gear with unique skins you can't obtain otherwise.

The world feels alive, there is loads to explore and stuff happens without anyone intervention.

I.

seriously: lack of ever-expanding quest log? OMG THANK YOU! :wub:

you basically have your story quest line up at the top to tell you where to go to advance your story, but other than that, there really aren't any quests to keep track of, as they happen as you wander by. There are events, of course, in each are,a that will give you a completion percentage for that region (Help a certain number of NPCs with their tasks--they become vendors after, and you can keep helping them if you wish, as these are dynamic tasks, collect the skill points, unlock waypoints). You get bonus items for 100% completion of each zone.

I played 3 toons, and as soon as the game starts, I basically spend 5-6 levels before ever going into my capital town and beginning the storyline. The living towns--NPCs go about their business, they sleep at night, they do their work, etc, all of this lends it towards the Elder Scrolls type of world

And I thoroughly enjoyed the ~80 levels of tailoring that I was able to complete. Crafting is fun, but again--no tutorial as to how it works. It's easy enough to figure out, though.

One of the very few things that holds over from GW1: salvage everything when starting out. ;( (if you can afford it. monies aren't terribly easy to come by)


As for Guilds: each guild has a long research tree, that you can pump money or gems (I think) into to unlock time-based traits for each member (gold drop, XP bonus, buffs,e tc etc). There are guild banks, and unlike GW1--there is a market! needs direct trading, though. that was unavailable in the beta.