UPDATE 3: Car still stalling - Can I just keep running it like this?

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
So my 2004 Kia Rio decides that it will stall every few minutes one morning. Seems to do it at when idling or coasting at <20mph when I have the clutch pressed down. So at every stop sign or when stuck behind someone in traffic. My usual lowest RPM is ~760 rpm but it's now dropping to 600, 500 or 400 and promtly stalls.

It stalled ~10 times during a 30 min drive across the city in the morning. Took it to a mechanic that morning, they couldn't tell what was wrong but did other maintenance work. I took it home and it stalled another ~10 times on the way. On the way home the check engine light came on and stayed on afterwards and it stopped stalling?? The mechanic checked it again and this time they could get an error code from the car and they checked my TPS and the mass airflow sensor (MAF) MAF and tell me its the MAF and that it will be $600 to fix.

It's a $4,000 / 8 year old car that I just need to last me ~2 more years, so I have a hard time justifying $600. Another mechanic said he could do it for $400 with an aftermarket part and another guy said he could do it for $300 with a used part. While cheking out these places the check engine light has dissapeared and the stalling stopped so the last mechanic told me to wait. Last couple of days it has been running mostly fine, stalling once or twice only. Or if I keep tapping the gas pedal to never let the rpm come down too much I can avoid it as well.

Can I fix this myself for much cheaper? I barely drive this thing and I just need to make it last 2 more years.

Thanks


UPDATE 1:

Just came back from installing the $75 used MAF and a test drive and she seems to be running really well! Hopefully this lasts!

UPDATE 2:

Well my car is still stalling even after replacing the MAF. However now she only stalls AFTER having been at highway speeds for a while. So when I start her up in the morning she's completely fine, idle's fine, coasting or at stop lights she's fine. After being like an hour or more on the highway the next stop light or car I stop behind: she stalls, or just pressing the clutch in: she stalls or even just taking my foot off the gas at highway speeds: she hesitates a bit. After being parked for a while she will be completely fine again.

So I take apart and clean the idle air control valve (IACV) and replace the gasket as well but still have the same problem (car feels a bit smoother from doing that though).

Thoughts?

UPDATE 3: I'll try these fixes but if it starts to become really expensive I'll have a hard time justifying the costs on this vehicle.

Since she still runs, could I theoretically just keep driving it like this? Would I be causing serious damage to other critical components? I would just like to see this car last like 2 more years.
 
Last edited:

MaDDinGO

Senior member
Apr 20, 2002
379
0
0
The MAF is usually very easy to replace. In most cars, its the sensor right before the throttle body. Its typically held on by a 1 electrical connector and a hose clamp. Takes 15 mins to replace and you can buy the part online for around $100-150.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
Depending on the type of MAF sensor, you may be able to clean it. You're not supposed to use MAF cleaner on some (vortex type found on Mitsubishis and some Toyotas, I think)..but yours might be ok to try.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
Rockauto.com has the MAF for $120, new. If that really is the problem, you can try cleaning it with MAF cleaner. It could be a number of things though, what was the code that it gave?
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
The mechanic said he already tried cleaning it but he seemed like a typical greedy salesman so I wouldn't be surprised if he's full of shit. I guess I'll try finding some cleaner and see if I can do that myself and get back to you guys.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
Maybe he did try cleaning it and that is why it is running better now. Usually cleaning them doesn't work though...
 

bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,484
154
106
I cleaned MAF with electric contacts cleaner @ 98,000 Miles. Now, it is still running strong @ 148,000.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
So I took out my MAF and cleaned it liberally (but carefully) with the special cleaner, waited for it to dry and replaced it just like the youtubes and the interwebs taught me to.

Cost: $8.99
Tools Required: very basic
Procedure Difficulty: 2/10
Time: 30 min (probably 15-20 if I were to do it again)

She started fine, the Check Engine light was now gone and I took her around the block a few times. Still seemed to be a little off when returning to idle rpms and on the way back she in fact stalled again. Sigh.

So I guess I'll be trying to find me an aftermarket MAF for like $100-$150 this weekend and hopefully cure this and get another couple years out of my good ol' Rio. May the car gods make this not be her last legs just yet.
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
Generally, bad MAF does NOT cause the engine to stall at idle speed. Please check idle air control valve. Google/youtube IACV to find how to clean (or replace) for your specific car.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
I found a used one from a junkyard for $75. Have 60 days to return it if it doesn't work so I'll probably put it in tonight to see if it seems to be better than my current one. At this price it's worth a shot compared to anything else I've been quoted.

If that doesn't work I'll try the IACV. Will report with results!
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
868
61
91
I had a similar problem with my old Jeep. In my case, the Throttle Position Sensor went bad. Cost me $40 at Autozone and about 5 minutes to replace. Ran just fine after that.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
Just came back from installing the $75 used MAF and a test drive and she seems to be running really well! Hopefully this lasts!

JeepinEd: Mechanics told me they thought of that too but they tested my TPS and it was fine.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
The MAF is usually very easy to replace. In most cars, its the sensor right before the throttle body. Its typically held on by a 1 electrical connector and a hose clamp. Takes 15 mins to replace and you can buy the part online for around $100-150.
This. I've done it before. New part was $100 or so and it really is a 15-30 min job. I did try cleaning mine but it didn't help. But, MAF cleaner is hella cheap a couple bucks at autozone so it's probably worth trying.

Glad to see kingstonU's car working now. MAF is one of those things that for some unknown reason seem to cost a sh*t ton to get done professionally, but as you found is really an easy job.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
UPDATE: Well my car is still stalling even after replacing the MAF.

However now she only stalls AFTER having been at highway speeds for a while. So when I start her up in the morning she's completely fine, idle's fine, coasting or at stop lights she's fine. After being like an hour or more on the highway the next stop light or car I stop behind: she stalls, or just pressing the clutch in: she stalls or even just taking my foot off the gas at highway speeds: she hesitates a bit. After being parked for a while she will be completely fine again.

So I take apart and clean the idle air control valve (IACV) and replace the gasket as well but still have the same problem (car feels a bit smoother from doing that though).

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
106
You may have a vacuum leak. Or the IAC may actually be bad. I would check for vacuum leaks first.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
I'm going to go with vacuum leak as well.
First place I would check is the hose going from the PCV valve to the throttle body.
Oil vapors that get sucked through it cause it to deteriorate faster than most of the other rubber hoses on the car.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
I'll try these fixes but if it starts to become really expensive I'll have a hard time justifying the costs on this vehicle.

Since she still runs, could I theoretically just keep driving it like this? Would I be causing serious damage to other critical components? I would just like to see this car last like 2 more years.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
Anyone able to comment on if I can like keep driving it like this for another ~2 years or so? (assuming I can't fix the problem cheaply) Or is it likely that the problem will keep getting worse and will start to cause other problems?
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I'll try these fixes but if it starts to become really expensive I'll have a hard time justifying the costs on this vehicle.

Since she still runs, could I theoretically just keep driving it like this? Would I be causing serious damage to other critical components? I would just like to see this car last like 2 more years.



it is likely the idle air control motor if it is anything like the mitsu/chrysler's setups.

it shouldn't really damage other components if you continue to drive it, just a hassle for you as a driver
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
Anyone able to comment on if I can like keep driving it like this for another ~2 years or so? (assuming I can't fix the problem cheaply) Or is it likely that the problem will keep getting worse and will start to cause other problems?

It's likely doubtful it'll cause any major problems to the engine. Basically, it is running lean and not getting the air/fuel mix right.

To me, it sounds like it could be an oxygen sensor. It might not be getting the air/fuel mix right, and thus causing the engine to stall at idle. Higher speeds will be less fuel efficient, but as you're pushing more fuel through, the problem is likely less evident. I could be way wrong though.

At this point, it doesn't sound like an expensive problem. It just needs an experienced hand to look at it. Find yourself a better mechanic. Try angieslist or just google local mechanics and find a place that has a lot of positive feedback. Take it there, and let them fix you up. While I am certainly not partial to Kia's, your problem is likely less than $500 for a good mechanic to fix.
 
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