[UPDATE: Almost Certaintly Fake] AMD Zen branding, SKUs, and pricing

[Glo.]

Intel sells 6, 8, and 10 core processors now. Skylake-X, which comes in 2H 2017, will also have 6-10 cores.

Intel's Skylake also has an IPC advantage and, based on the leaks, likely a significant frequency advantage as well.

Core count isn't everything.

But price, and value is everything.

 

[LTC8K6]

Don't forget that 3 of the 4 BDW-E chips can do 4.0Ghz single core with Turbo 3.0

 

[Arachnotronic]

If AMD would want to reset their brand perception, the best way for that is to give a killer offer, like one you mentioned. There is a lot of reasons why AMD would do this. If Zen will be on Haswell level clock for clock, then next generation CPUs will only be better and that is potential for not only turning the tide on CPU market, but also growth for AMD. But for that they would require changing the perception of their brand.

What is a better way for the "mindshare brand reset" than offering solid hardware at a bargain?

Think about this. 6 core Haswell-E for 250$(SR5), with GTX 1080(Vega 11) for 500$. Would you not buy something like this?

Let the RX 480 be your guide. How did AMD price this relative to the competition?

Heck, AMD is still trying to get $229 for the FX 9590:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113347&cm_re=fx_9590-_-19-113-347-_-Product

 

[Arachnotronic]

How many people will wonder about the price/cores/clocks of the FX chips versus the Zen chips? People could possibly think an FX-6350 / 8350 is better than a 6 / 8 core Zen due to clock speed alone.

Very few. Outside of the "enthusiast bubble," purchasing decisions aren't based on research

The vast majority of PCs are sold via OEMs; end-users mainly buy systems, not chips.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

Let the RX 480 be your guide. How did AMD price this relative to the competition?

Quite well actually. I got a RX 480 4gb for $153 after MIR.

The prices were a circus at the start, but that was because of bad yields due to what I assume was Globalfoundries' never ending incompetence.

 

[Abwx]

Don't forget that 3 of the 4 BDW-E chips can do 4.0Ghz single core with Turbo 3.0

With a single core litteraly, wich means only one given core can turbo to 4GHz while other cores cant reach this frequency even on ST.

 

[Phynaz]

But price, and value is everything.

Actually it's about the last thing. Look at the most successful products in any market, they are not the "value" products.

AMD has learned the hard way that he who lives by price dies by price. That's why they don't want to be known as the cheap brand.

 

[LTC8K6]

Quite well actually. I got a RX 480 4gb for $153 after MIR.

The prices were a circus at the start, but that was because of bad yields due to what I assume was Globalfoundries' never ending incompetence.

It was not priced drastically lower than it's competition at release.

The fact that it came down some fairly quickly isn't necessarily a good thing for AMD.

Rebates don't really count, except as an indication that a particular card is not selling well.

 

[LTC8K6]

With a single core litteraly, wich means only one given core can turbo to 4GHz while other cores cant reach this frequency even on ST.

https://ark.intel.com/compare/94456,94196,94188,94189

The other cores aren't too shabby, either.

And actually, Intel doesn't say it's a single core for Turbo 3.0:

Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 identifies the best performing core(s) on a processor and provides increased performance on those cores through increasing frequency as needed by taking advantage of power and thermal headroom. Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 frequency is the clock frequency of the CPU when running in this mode.

 

[Glo.]

Actually it's about the last thing. Look at the most successful products in any market, they are not the "value" products.

AMD has learned the hard way that he who lives by price dies by price. That's why they don't want to be known as the cheap brand.

GTX 1050 Ti is the best example for this. Same as RX 470. GPUs that offer best value(price/reward).

 

[LTC8K6]

1050ti seems to be a bad value, though.

It's selling feature is it's performance per watt and it's lack of a power connector.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

It was not priced drastically lower than it's competition at release.

The fact that it came down some fairly quickly isn't necessarily a good thing for AMD.

Yes, but the 480 is a solid competitor with the 1060. AMD isn't at parity with Intel. When zen is released they have to offer more cores to compensate for their lack of single threaded performance.

Rebates don't really count, except as an indication that a particular card is not selling well.

It's not that the card isn't selling well. The thing with rebates is that the companies rely on the fact that most people won't fill them out, or fill them out improperly, or they get the card and forget to use it, or w/e. They probably only have to honor like 25% of the eligible rebates. So, a $20 rebate is really only like $5 off.

I believe most, if not all, the MSI cards are on rebate right now, including the nvidia gpus.

GTX 1050 Ti is the best example for this. Same as RX 470. GPUs that offer best value(price/reward).

1050ti is bad value. You can get a 470 for a few bucks more, and it will give like 50% increase in performance.

 

[Glo.]

1050ti is bad value. You can get a 470 for a few bucks more, and it will give like 50% increase in performance.

In overall performance per dollar, its one of best values. I do not care about how its value fares compared to RX 470. Value overall - thats what I meant.

Which even Techpower seems to agree with me. Only two GPUs that have higher value, are GTX 1060 3 GB and RX 470.

 

[TheELF]

1050ti seems to be a bad value, though.

It's selling feature is it's performance per watt and it's lack of a power connector.

Funny enough ZEN's selling feature seems to be just that.
Look at their TDP statements,consider their -similar systems- statement when they ran the blender test at the presentation and one can be fairly sure that the only way to get broadwell-e levels of performance is with a broadwell-e 8core limited at 65wtdp...
40% over XV is still ~20% lower than haswell,clock to clock and 3,2Ghz base is not really high.
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-8-core-35ghz-cpu-spotted/

 

[AtenRa]

Intel sells 6, 8, and 10 core processors now. Skylake-X, which comes in 2H 2017, will also have 6-10 cores.

Intel's Skylake also has an IPC advantage and, based on the leaks, likely a significant frequency advantage as well.

Core count isn't everything.

If we take the leaked specs as legit, I havent seen any 65W TDP Skylake-X to compare clocks.

 

[AtenRa]

Let the RX 480 be your guide. How did AMD price this relative to the competition?

R9 390 8GB released at $330
RX 480 8GB released at $239

At the time of RX 480 8GB release
GTX 970 was selling at $330
and GTX 980 at $450-500

RX 480 is on average 90% of GTX 980 at half the price and with 4GB more.

So if RX 480 is our guide, 6C 12T ZEN at $250 is on target.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

Funny enough ZEN's selling feature seems to be just that.
Look at their TDP statements,consider their -similar systems- statement when they ran the blender test at the presentation and one can be fairly sure that the only way to get broadwell-e levels of performance is with a broadwell-e 8core limited at 65wtdp

The RX 480 is doing the same workload as it's mid-high end predecessors at half the power. I would say that is good.

I don't think anyone is realistically expecting Zen to come along and match Broadwell-e, so you can rest safe at night knowing you still have the best. But skeptics were saying it wouldn't even match Haswell-e, and now they are eating crow.

A Haswell-e performance Zen is quite good, and arguably preferable to a 4 core/8 thread kabylake, assuming the price is right.

 

[superstition]

Let the RX 480 be your guide. How did AMD price this relative to the competition?

It created a competitive mainstream market and grabbed a lot of share in the process.

Remember that there was no "two different 1060s", let alone one, when the 480s were selling like hotcakes nor was there a 1050 Ti.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It created a competitive mainstream market and grabbed a lot of share in the process.

[citation needed for the portion in bold]

 

[superstition]

[citation needed]

I need to do extra work because I've followed the news for months? The news reports said the 480 was successful in regaining AMD significant share of the graphics market. It, and the 470, also clearly pressured Nvidia into releasing a bunch of mainstream parts at more competitive prices — to replace a 960 so lackluster that Anandtech never bothered to review it.

The 480/470 has been a success for AMD despite the weakness of the 14nm process. That process will be more mature for Zen so using the 480 as a guide suggests Zen will be competitive in the mainstream market and have improved efficiency thanks to the time GF has had to improve the process.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I need to do extra work because I've followed the news for months? The news reports said the 480 was successful in regaining AMD significant share of the graphics market. It, and the 470, also clearly pressured Nvidia into releasing a bunch of mainstream parts at more competitive prices — to replace a 960 so lackluster that Anandtech never bothered to review it.

The GTX 1060 came in at $249 for the 6GB model and $199 for the 3GB model with some disabled CUs. That's actually less aggressive pricing than what the GTX 960 came in at.

As far as the market share, that huge unit share gain happened pre-Polaris and was obviously more related to cheaper OEM discrete GPUs than gaming focused products. Post-Polaris, NVIDIA actually gained gaming GPU revenue share.

 

[superstition]

The GTX 1060 came in at $249 for the 6GB model and $199 for the 3GB model with some disabled CUs. That's actually less aggressive pricing than what the GTX 960 came in at. The 1060 6 GB is certainly more competitive against the 480 series than the 960, including pricing.

MSRP is never nearly as relevant as what sale prices are nor should anyone forget that people have been willing to pay extra for the Nvidia brand lately.

As far as the market share, that huge unit share gain happened pre-Polaris and was obviously more related to cheaper OEM discrete GPUs than gaming focused products. Post-Polaris, NVIDIA actually gained gaming GPU revenue share.

The tech press has said the 480/470 has gained significant share for AMD and has been a success.

 

[rgallant]

The GTX 1060 came in at $249 for the 6GB model

er it was released at $249.00 - 299.00 or was the FE not a gtx 1060

 

[dark zero]

Intel sells 6, 8, and 10 core processors now. Skylake-X, which comes in 2H 2017, will also have 6-10 cores.

Intel's Skylake also has an IPC advantage and, based on the leaks, likely a significant frequency advantage as well.

Core count isn't everything.

Not for mainstream. Also you must have over 300 dollars for the hex core.

 

[Abwx]

https://ark.intel.com/compare/94456,94196,94188,94189

The other cores aren't too shabby, either.

And actually, Intel doesn't say it's a single core for Turbo 3.0:

Yes, i m aware of how it work, thing is that to have the higher possible ST perf the faster core should be loaded by the application but at the same time the main thread require the faster core, overall it s a mixed bag and Hardware.fr had to disable this "feature" to have higher perfs in their tests.