*Update* for DMCA Black Friday : Walmart officially sue FW, F@tWallet Strikes Back Using DMCA..

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K-squared

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,386
0
0
.... OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE....

EXECUTIVE ORDER 02-977538
.... OF BIG BUSINESS, FOR BIG BUSINESS, BY BIG BUSINESS....


"Welcome to the United Incorporated States of America....

Sir, may I see your National AntiTerrorist Identification Card?

Would you like fries with that Big McArthur Mac????
"


edit - sorry, I've just received a DATCPA e-mail directing me that the post I made 0.052ns ago, is in violation of the Digital Anti-Terrorist Corporate Protection Act of 2003, and I have until 21:00:00 World Corporate Trading Time (WCTT) to edit and/or otherwise delete the post....
 

VaG

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2001
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: tedinde1
First we cannot post coupons, we have to go to other sites to get them, now we cant post deals, So just close the deals forums here.

You're bitchin about something that hasn't even happened here yet. FW was taken down 2 days ago but nothing here yet.

 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
0
SalesHound.Com used to have items listed for the various sales circulars each and every Saturday. Now, with the sales that start on Sunday, the items start appearing on that day, but not before. I guess the retailers are cracking down and several sites.
 

tedinde1

Senior member
Sep 22, 2001
365
0
0
Im not bitchin, but this deals fourm will bitch up to demand by corporte America and the government. All of us will talk, but none will stand behind it.
 

tommytran

Senior member
Nov 10, 2000
291
0
0
Originally posted by: Distinguished
Never in my 50 years have I been more fearful of government and corporations.

The government is getting bigger and more controlling every passing day. Large corporations have taken over almost every business segment. The small independent business is nearly extinct. We, the citizens of this great country, are now just pawns. We have lost our ability to think critically, our ability to voice opinion, and our ability to act. The desire is there, but our ability is being stripped away by the government and corporate machines.

Our elected leaders no longer represent the wishes of the populace but rather the corporations and special interest groups that fund their campaigns and line their pockets. It is no longer a ?Government of the people, for the people??.

We are seduced by low prices from mass merchandisers. Their slick marketing and advertising convinces us they are as ?American as apple pie?, and yet most of their goods are foreign made. These companies are draining the dollars from our economy as fast as we can hand it over to them.

What can we do?

Support the small/ mom & pop businesses as much as possible. You may pay a little more, but your money will probably be staying in your local area economy.

Buy American made products. Keep the money and jobs in the USA.

Get involved in politics. Think critically about the issues being decided and what it means about our futures. Let your representatives know that you expect them to represent the people and not the corporate and special interest groups.

Make your voice heard.

A JAIL, A BIG JAIL FOR ALL
 

tommytran

Senior member
Nov 10, 2000
291
0
0
Can we post the information in the form: I BELIEVE THE PRICE OF ....(ITEMS OR SKU...)... FROM...(STORE A, B....) WILL BE ....
Will it be a violation of DMCA?
 
May 3, 2002
47
0
0
Originally posted by: cheapgoose
Personally I love all the forums that saves me money. As wrong as walmart, target...are, I don't want to see Anadtech, or FW go to court to fight and tigh up resources they don't have. Let us all just read/copy the lists now, suck it up, talk some crap about these companies and move on.

What he said...
.....and what he said.

Doesnt really matter anyway, usually all these great deals on black friday are a bait and switch, They will have only 2 of the super deals in stock. No rainchecks, But they will give you that raincheck on the overpriced regular stuff.
 

mechsiah

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
346
0
0
My personal understanding is as follows:

- There would be no copyright violation to post a message that said "I heard that Best Buy is going to sell X for $xx.xxx". This information would be considered "common".

- Posting a scan or large portions of a scan or LINKS (by DMCA) to such scans would be a violation of copyright law.

- I believe the stores would argue that the information contained in their ads are proprietary until the point of publication, and the disemination of that information negatively impacts their business in the form of financial losses. The argument is weak, and may not make it past summary judgement, BUT, it is not frivilous.

For those taking shots at anandtech, keep in mind that certain decisions are not up to the site owner, but are up to the Service Provider themselves. While I agree that this is a misuse of the law and that someone should stand up to them, that takes MONEY. While I'm sure Anand is doing well for himself, this battle is probably not worth it.

On the bright side, there are things we can do, but they require some resolve. It is easy to whine and b!tch about how this is wrong anonymously on the forum, but it is a much greater thing to DO something. Write a letter- not an email - a letter, explaining to the above mentioned stores that you disagree with them, that you would like an explanation, and that you have serious doubts about whether you want to spend any of your holiday money at their store.

Remember- all they care about is money, so hit them where they hurt. Be polite, be clear, and be truthful. Discourage your friends and family from buying from these outlets, and call and write the stores on a regular basis INFORMING them of the business they are losing. Send them copies of receipts of things you have purchased from other stores. That will get their attention.

Sorry this is so long.

Mechsiah

(PS- This is all PERSONAL, not legal, information.)
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
just liek when they shut down that site that hosted scanned frys ads. guess i dont know whats on sale at frys. guess i'll stay home.
 

JubJub4

Senior member
Apr 26, 2000
295
0
0
They are all fools if they think they can stop people from spreading good deals. Thats like trying to stop the spread of mp3s. Why bother?
 

WebDude

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,648
0
0
This is all preposterous and ludicrious. First of all, Walmart et al are not being HARMED in any way. Advance leaking of a sale or special deals, how can that possibly do any injury to the parties who intend to have the sale? If anything, it benefits them by giving them free advertising. Does the premature revelation of what will be on sale give anyone a special advantage? Since nothing will be sold until the date of the sale, and it's 'first come first serve' at that time, I can't see that. This is not a case of "insider info" used to benefit certain parties, and by so doing harm others (like insider trading a la Martha Stewart, vs. all the other stock holders of Inclone whose stock was consequently eroded in value). Intellectual property rights to an upcoming sales brochure? Give me a *(&(_) break! It's not like a best-selling novel, or a formula that would cure cancer, or something else you could sell BECAUSE IT HAS INTRINSIC VALUE. I would love to see a case like this go to court. I would bet good money that any judge with even half a mind would throw this puppy out of court so fast it would make your head spin, for total lack of standing.

WebDude
 

iliopsoas

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
1,844
2
0
So these bullies won't let us post their circulars on here.

But we can post RUMORS, correct?

"It is rumored that Stapl*s (I can't post their name because I'm afraid I might get sued for infringing upon their trademark) will have a big sale on so-and-so-product at so-and-so price."

 

Lars

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2001
3,379
0
0
Maybe it would be a good idea if all the hot deals web site owners would work together on this somehow.
 

ThumpR777

Member
Nov 8, 2002
91
0
0
Scary,
Next MS (can I even use their name?) will charge a licencing fee because part of the OS is kept in RAM, and that is a violation of something.

According the DMCA act itself, service providers such as Anand Tech are exempt from liability if certain rules are followed, read the act here. According to this, it OK to put a link on a Website to other information,

Sec. 512. . Limitations on liability relating to material online

`(a) TRANSITORY DIGITAL NETWORK COMMUNICATIONS- A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider's transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections, if--

`(1) the transmission of the material was initiated by or at the direction of a person other than the service provider;

`(2) the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;

`(3) the service provider does not select the recipients of the material except as an automatic response to the request of another person;

`(4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and

`(5) the material is transmitted through the system or network without modification of its content.

I hypothesis that companies cannot hinder the information, there may be Safe Harbor clauses for this, by anyone who did not sign a non-disclosure agreement (and the courts have not been too kind toward companies for these). An advertisement can be copywrited because it is an image, but the information such as model and price cannot be copywrited by an advertiser, it is considered common knowledge.

Another option is to create a news article, and link to that, and that is also considered safe.

We have met the enemy and it is us.
 

kombatmud

Senior member
Dec 3, 1999
446
0
0
Originally posted by: mechsiah
My personal understanding is as follows:

- There would be no copyright violation to post a message that said "I heard that Best Buy is going to sell X for $xx.xxx". This information would be considered "common".

- Posting a scan or large portions of a scan or LINKS (by DMCA) to such scans would be a violation of copyright law.

- I believe the stores would argue that the information contained in their ads are proprietary until the point of publication, and the disemination of that information negatively impacts their business in the form of financial losses. The argument is weak, and may not make it past summary judgement, BUT, it is not frivilous.

I agree that that's what the companies are claiming, however under the DMCA 17 USC 107 Fair use clause, it seems that it would only be considered infringement if it had an effect on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Since the market, and the value of a sales circular is zero, then this can't be considered infringement under the DMCA.

I would like to see someone fight this, and take them to court if need be. I don't believe the corporations would win this.

Especially if the scans of the flyers themselves were not posted, which I believe is the case.
 

BurntCpu

Senior member
Oct 27, 2001
309
0
0
Like I always said we live in an oligarchy (government run by the rich) not a truly democratic one. Insider trading is one thing but insider Dealing?. These companies obviously forgot how they got rich in the first place, maybe we should remind them.
 

skrill

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,079
0
0
If you don't straight up copy the ads -- and instead just relay the relevant information. Then I do not see how they can claim a copyright claim. Names of products + prices does not equate to copyrightable information. They are just trying to scare you all. I say keep talking about Black Friday ads and screw em.

Just don't post the actual ads.
 

ai42

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2001
3,653
0
0
Wow funny how stores actually care now. Ads have typically been available 1-2 weeks in advance on this forum and others, and stores seam to care about this one.

Yes I agree you can post product names and similar prices (ie $69.99 to $70). As long as you do not post SKU numbers for the specific store you should be ok. Stores cannot copyright the name of a product (usually it is already copyrighted to the manufacter). And if you do not post the exact same price then their case is moot. Of course if these companies want to be REALLY picky then they would stop you from saying the exact store name too, but we always have OM, OD, Staples (you can't copyright such a common word), CUSA...

I think it's pretty pointless because if a competing store would want to undercut the competition they wouldn't go to these forums they would find a new "friend" in the newspaper industry. Also these ads have to be made out weeks in advance in order to be printed to their dates, and by the time all the motion is set into play it is too late for it to be changed due to the fact their competitor has the same product for cheaper/more.
 
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