*Update* for DMCA Black Friday : Walmart officially sue FW, F@tWallet Strikes Back Using DMCA..

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gwlam12

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2001
6,946
1
71
i dont see a problemw with this. had retailers wanted you to know in advance what sales were coming up, then they would have given it to you in advance.

also, for those who think they retailers just want to sue, then they wouldn't be giving others an opportunity to remove the violating posts now would they?

until the ads are circulated to the public, then they are still private property. just like cds, movies, and anything else.
 

eusebio

Member
Jul 2, 2001
51
0
0
The DMCA is good and not the politician's selling off their constituents to line their pockets, copyright is supreme and not a social contract, companies' right to make money should prevail over individual rights and Anandtech, Fat wallet et al should spend their days in court and run out of money so that their evil lawbreaking sites will shut down, didn't you know?

Welcome to the XXIst Century
 

tedinde1

Senior member
Sep 22, 2001
365
0
0
Just do what i do and go down to 7-11 or your local convienience store and get the sunday inserts on friday, from HABIB behind the counter.
 

Dznuts007

Senior member
Apr 26, 2000
629
0
0
Originally posted by: VaG
Originally posted by: tedinde1
First we cannot post coupons, we have to go to other sites to get them, now we cant post deals, So just close the deals forums here.

You're bitchin about something that hasn't even happened here yet. FW was taken down 2 days ago but nothing here yet.

Regardless of where it happened, the fact that it happened and CAN happen here, we should do something about it. This talk about boycotting, I'm for it. Who benefits from these deals? Yeah, we benefit from the lower prices, but the corporations benefit too by getting all these people to buy their stuff and selling it faster than it would have sold without people knowing about the deals. I don't know what the corporations are bitching about. They're making money...

I would totally like to write a template letter than we can all copy and paste and email to all these corporations. I say we all do this and let them know that as consumers, we are the ones who say who can and cannot have our money. Unfortunately, my speaka-american is no so good, so anyone wanna volunteer to do this?
 

Gilby

Senior member
May 12, 2001
753
0
76
Originally posted by: SSSS
Way to go guys, thanks to all of you who made Republicans (friends of corporate america) in control of entire political system.

Erm. Not to burst the bubble of someone who's head is in the right place....

....but the Democrats took a hard right turn under Clinton in an effort to win over the corps. Thinking that the Democrats are any different than the Republicans (in the US, of course) in terms of toadying to the corps is just plain wrong. Just about everyone in Washington is friends of corporate america, and with the way we fund elections, just about everyone who runs (from a "major" party) is the same way.

 

jayR

Senior member
Apr 25, 2000
644
0
0
First, I did not mean to insult Mr. Anand Shimpi (I hope I did not slaughter your name) in any way. I was just trying to encorurage him to take a couragous (and personnally risky) stand against these corperate bullies. I believe that whoever does will eventually be vindicated (and will achieve a sort of Internet/free speech/David and Goliath hero status), but of course, I could be slightly wrong.

Anyway, I believe Distinguished was correct when he said that these corporations use these hot deals to get average consumers into the store so they can make profits off of other sales. Thier real problem is the people on the deal sites clean out the hot deals before the average consumer gets a shot at them. And of course we don't take the bate for the other items. Not only that, but some of the extroidinary deal engineers here generate unexpected corporate losses by combining pricematching mfg and store rebates and coupons. We all have seen deals where we actually ended up getting paid to take an item off the retailler's hands. Using the DMCA is grasping at straws. It will ultimately fail because it is too easy to put up a web site. And they can't police the world. The best they can hope for is to slow this train down a bit by trying to intimidate the current leaders.

These corporations are very competitive with each other. That is why they need to price match. But with people like us gaming the system they loose too much, especially when they don't expect it. A clever retailer, say OM, might say, "Hmm Staples is pricematching me. I see they are going to have a coupon and a couple of rebates out on item X next week. I think I'll put that item on sale as a loss leader (slight loss to me). Those deal engineers are sure to pick up on it. They will force Staples to live up to thier policy and take a much more serious loss on it. I will get to make staples eat that price matching policy that costs me so much buisness."

At any rate, I think the deal engineering will continue full tilt, DMCA or no DMCA. The economic forces demand it and the Internet inevitably enables it. Unfortunately, in the long term, the large retailers will be forced to become more savy or be run out of busness. Once they realize they have to take the internet as it is, they will produce sails, rebates, coupons, and pricematches with much less reckless abandon. In otherwords, they will analyze the potential for an unexpected loss due to a deal being engineered. So, they will make many fewer mistakes leading to those truely HOT deals. They have to to stay alive. So, in the long run, the success of the hot deal sites will lead to fewer hot deals. Oh-well. GET THEM WHILE THEIR HOT. Although there will always be a hot deal some where, just a lot fewer unintended ones from the large retailers.

 

tranceport

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2000
4,168
1
81
www.thesystemsengineer.com
Originally posted by: skrill
If you don't straight up copy the ads -- and instead just relay the relevant information. Then I do not see how they can claim a copyright claim. Names of products + prices does not equate to copyrightable information. They are just trying to scare you all. I say keep talking about Black Friday ads and screw em.

Just don't post the actual ads.



I agree completely.
 

jfolds

Member
May 26, 2002
56
0
0
Well, if the stores would prefer..... instead of flooding in there and giving them all our cash and completely clearing out the stock on these items they want to sell

We could instead organize a complete boycott of each store, and ruin their good names



I'd vote for choce A myself.


 

gump47371

Senior member
Dec 18, 2001
726
0
0
Originally posted by: jfolds
Well, if the stores would prefer..... instead of flooding in there and giving them all our cash and completely clearing out the stock on these items they want to sell

We could instead organize a complete boycott of each store, and ruin their good names



I'd vote for choce A myself.

jfolds,

That is not what pissed them off. What they are upset about is that people that might buy the things that are going to be on sale will wait and get it for a cheaper price on Friday, which equals for them less profit.

As many have stated earlier, talking about them there is nothing wrong with. What was the matter was people posting scans of the ad.

I don't blame them a bit, and will shop for the good deals on Friday. All you that want to drown in your tears, good. Sit home on Friday, that will be less people for me to shove out of the way.
 

Oaf357

Senior member
Sep 2, 2001
956
0
0
F@tWallet is going to make a difference I hope. If they need donations tell them to come and find me.
 

1Cheap2Crazy

Golden Member
Jun 15, 2002
1,165
0
76
Sue, sue, sue, it's the american way these days. If Walmart wins this lawsuit, I actually hope that this b@stard sues Walmart and wins.

http://www.youmaybenext.com/list.html

PanIP has currently sued 50 small businesses with no end in sight.
The small businesses listed below are being or have been sued by PanIP. If your web site looks or functions anything like those listed below...YOU MAY BE NEXT!

He's suing anybody that does e-commerce.
 

Salvador

Diamond Member
May 19, 2001
7,058
0
71
Got nothing to do with the republicans. the law passed under the Democrat administration. Why is it always the fault of the republicans? Because they expect you to go out and get a job?
Sorry, I spoke too soon before I read more about the DMCA. It just seemed like a Republican thing is all. I think now that the Republicans are back in charge, corporate America is going to be able to exploit laws like this more easily. Look at Microsoft. They were in deep sh*t back when the Democrats were in control for their monopolistic activities, but now that they Republicans are back in control look at what's happening. Not even a slap on the wrist. Maybe I better not write about this. Microsoft might track me down and burn my house and my government probably won't do sh*t to protect me now.

Sal
 

mccall

Senior member
Sep 5, 2000
514
0
0
Can we at least get some facts straight?

WalMart (nor anyone else) did not sue F*twallet. WalMart and other retailers sent letters demanding that FW remove what they considered to be DMCA infringing material. In addittion, WalMart obtained a subpoena (which is different from filing a lawsuit) demanding the personal information on the poster of the WalMart sales info on FW and served FW with said subpoena. Subsequently FW's attorneys sent WalMart a letter demanding they withdraw that subpoena or face a "Motion to Quash" proceeding in federal court. They also sent demand letters to each retailer (and here I quote from the FW press release) "contesting its frivolous copyright assertion and demanding payment, under Section 512(f) of the DMCA, for all damages, including costs and attorneys? fees, incurred by F*tWallet in addressing the knowing and material misrepresentations of copyright protection."

So as you can see, no one has yet been sued, "officially" or otherwise, whatever the hell that means. Can we at least change the title of this post to reflect that and stop the misinformation?
 

clarkmo

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2000
2,615
2
81
Originally posted by: mccall
Can we at least get some facts straight?

WalMart (nor anyone else) did not sue F*twallet. WalMart and other retailers sent letters demanding that FW remove what they considered to be DMCA infringing material. In addittion, WalMart obtained a subpoena (which is different from filing a lawsuit) demanding the personal information on the poster of the WalMart sales info on FW and served FW with said subpoena. Subsequently FW's attorneys sent WalMart a letter demanding they withdraw that subpoena or face a "Motion to Quash" proceeding in federal court. They also sent demand letters to each retailer (and here I quote from the FW press release) "contesting its frivolous copyright assertion and demanding payment, under Section 512(f) of the DMCA, for all damages, including costs and attorneys? fees, incurred by F*tWallet in addressing the knowing and material misrepresentations of copyright protection."

So as you can see, no one has yet been sued, "officially" or otherwise, whatever the hell that means. Can we at least change the title of this post to reflect that and stop the misinformation?

You're splitting hairs and I think that is a violation of DMCA. Notice I wrote "I think" so you can't ask,sue,or beseech me for damages.
 

razorweb

Senior member
Dec 9, 2000
380
0
0
Q] You're splitting hairs and I think that is a violation of DMCA. Notice I wrote "I think" so you can't ask,sue,or beseech me for damages.[/quote]

if by splitting hairs you mean the split between absolutely right and absolutely wrong, then yes, he is splitting hairs. if it was such a clear cut violation of the DMCA, i doubt FW would have been able to get high profile legal support so easily.
 

JameyF

Senior member
Oct 5, 2001
845
0
76
Originally posted by: razorweb
Q] You're splitting hairs and I think that is a violation of DMCA. Notice I wrote "I think" so you can't ask,sue,or beseech me for damages.

if by splitting hairs you mean the split between absolutely right and absolutely wrong, then yes, he is splitting hairs. if it was such a clear cut violation of the DMCA, i doubt FW would have been able to get high profile legal support so easily.[/quote]


In law there aren't absolutes. That's why we have two or more sides arguing their case. After all, the dems say the constitution (the highest ranking legal document) isn't even absolute...it's a "living document".

In real estate classes I attended (far from legal training), I was taught you can sue for action. That is similar to what Walmart did according to the previous post. Worry less about someone not getting the topic exactly right, and worry more about how your rights to distribute information maybe trampled on!
 

huesmann

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 1999
8,618
0
76
Originally posted by: JameyF
After all, the dems say the constitution (the highest ranking legal document) isn't even absolute...it's a "living document". [/b]
Well, duh. Just how many amendments are there, anyway?
 

hotstuff2000

Member
Aug 3, 2001
130
0
0
WAKE UP PEOPLE
Corporate America owns our government, and our only protection, the media, lies and distorts the truth.
I think F@twallet and others actually HELPED WalMart, so I don't understand this.
All the Democrat/Republican stuff misses the point--both parties agree on 90% of the stuff out there. We are on an irreversible path to corporate socialism. There is an excellent book about stories that the media was not allowed to publish called Into The Buzzsaw - 5 stars on Amazon. VERY SCAREY STUFF. Check out sites like What Really Happened and Infowars. Some of the editorializing goes a little extreme, but read the links to the ACTUAL NEWSPAPER ARTICLES--facts of the terrible things our government does. The CIA is the biggest terrorist group in the world. Our freedoms are dying. Go down the list of the 10 Bill of Rights. EVERY ONE IS DESTROYED OR DIMINISHED. These rights were considered "absolute".. what is going on here people?!! My only advice is read, discover the truth, and tell others.
 
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