UPDATE - GT-R getting closer to ZR-1's record at the nurburgring.

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jahee
You Americans really do have a chip on your shoulder about your American cars don't you..

I do...they fucking blow.

Look at the Pontiac GTO...it took a bunch of Australians to show us how to make a proper fast jelly bean of a muscle car that nobody wants to buy.

It's a BRAND problem. No one wants to spend 40k on a Pontiac. They are crappy cars and it doesn't matter how fast it is, no one wants a broke ass Pontiac.

But you take that same car and let SVT make it - GOLD!

i'd take the G8 GXP over the GT500 any day. both are excellent cars, and both are $40k. pontiac should honestly just be holden imports plus the solstice.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jahee
You Americans really do have a chip on your shoulder about your American cars don't you..

I do...they fucking blow.

Look at the Pontiac GTO...it took a bunch of Australians to show us how to make a proper fast jelly bean of a muscle car that nobody wants to buy.

It's a BRAND problem. No one wants to spend 40k on a Pontiac. They are crappy cars and it doesn't matter how fast it is, no one wants a broke ass Pontiac.

But you take that same car and let SVT make it - GOLD!

i'd take the G8 GXP over the GT500 any day. both are excellent cars, and both are $40k. pontiac should honestly just be holden imports plus the solstice.

G8 GXP and the GT500 are not direct competition. G8 is a sports sedan and the GT500 is a muscle car. Even with that said, I'm not about the overall perception of the brand itself, not car against car. No one is willing to spend 40k on a Pontiac. At that price, you can get a 5 series BMW or another similar car from another manufacture.

It's the same thing that Hyundai is trying to overcome. They have a car that is on the level with Lexus, Merc and BMW - but the perception of it being a low end car manufacture is going to keep their sales numbers low compared to the established competition.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jahee
You Americans really do have a chip on your shoulder about your American cars don't you..

I do...they fucking blow.

Look at the Pontiac GTO...it took a bunch of Australians to show us how to make a proper fast jelly bean of a muscle car that nobody wants to buy.

It's a BRAND problem. No one wants to spend 40k on a Pontiac. They are crappy cars and it doesn't matter how fast it is, no one wants a broke ass Pontiac.

But you take that same car and let SVT make it - GOLD!

i'd take the G8 GXP over the GT500 any day. both are excellent cars, and both are $40k. pontiac should honestly just be holden imports plus the solstice.

G8 GXP and the GT500 are not direct competition. G8 is a sports sedan and the GT500 is a muscle car. Even with that said, I'm not about the overall perception of the brand itself, not car against car. No one is willing to spend 40k on a Pontiac. At that price, you can get a 5 series BMW or another similar car from another manufacture.

It's the same thing that Hyundai is trying to overcome. They have a car that is on the level with Lexus, Merc and BMW - but the perception of it being a low end car manufacture is going to keep their sales numbers low compared to the established competition.

To be fair, the cheapest 2009 5-series starts at $45.8k, and that's a stripped 528i (yuck). The G8 GT performs at or better than the 535i and 550i, which start at $52k and $60k, respectively. BMW is also a very stingy company when it comes to options. When you go to a BMW dealer expecting to see examples at one price, they frequently have heavily-optioned models on the lot for a lot more than you'd expect.

I'm a fan of BMW, but just wanted to make that clear.

Buying a new G8 for $40k isn't very wise, but I spotted a 2008 with 6k miles on it for $25k, which is definitely not a bad deal at all. Still plenty of warranty left, and a lot of car for the money.

 

[zoiks]

Update.
No doubt Nissan will beat it. But I'm still betting on the Vette.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: aleckz

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

Does not compute.

When I read this, my computer blue screened.

I think what he's trying to say is all this jazz over the import when a "lowly" domestic wipes it's own ass with it.

Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR Viper is a stripped down race car. No air conditioning, stereo, insulation, carpeting, etc.
GT-R is a 4 seater luxury GT coupe with all the comforts and AWD to boot.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: aleckz

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

Does not compute.

When I read this, my computer blue screened.

I think what he's trying to say is all this jazz over the import when a "lowly" domestic wipes it's own ass with it.

Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR Viper is a stripped down race car. No air conditioning, stereo, insulation, carpeting, etc.
GT-R is a 4 seater luxury GT coupe with all the comforts and AWD to boot.

The GT-R is trying to beat the ZR-1. Which has all of those comforts. What's your point again?

The GT-R isn't really a "4 seater" it's a 2+2. No one would want to ride in that cramp ass backseat for more than 10 minutes. It doesn't really count if you can't really use it. No one buys it as a luxury 4 seater GT car. LOL Gotta love fanboys.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jahee
You Americans really do have a chip on your shoulder about your American cars don't you..

I do...they fucking blow.

Look at the Pontiac GTO...it took a bunch of Australians to show us how to make a proper fast jelly bean of a muscle car that nobody wants to buy.

Ehh, I know my American car is still one of the best performing FWD cars even though it's not even made any more.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: aleckz

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

Does not compute.

When I read this, my computer blue screened.

I think what he's trying to say is all this jazz over the import when a "lowly" domestic wipes it's own ass with it.

Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR Viper is a stripped down race car. No air conditioning, stereo, insulation, carpeting, etc.
GT-R is a 4 seater luxury GT coupe with all the comforts and AWD to boot.

looooollll

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: aleckz

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

Does not compute.

When I read this, my computer blue screened.

I think what he's trying to say is all this jazz over the import when a "lowly" domestic wipes it's own ass with it.

Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR Viper is a stripped down race car. No air conditioning, stereo, insulation, carpeting, etc.
GT-R is a 4 seater luxury GT coupe with all the comforts and AWD to boot.

The GT-R is trying to beat the ZR-1. Which has all of those comforts. What's your point again?

The GT-R isn't really a "4 seater" it's a 2+2. No one would want to ride in that cramp ass backseat for more than 10 minutes. It doesn't really count if you can't really use it. No one buys it as a luxury 4 seater GT car. LOL Gotta love fanboys.

Oh, ok, so 2+2 =/= 4 anymore? Generally, I would not want to ride in a back seat of most GT luxury coupes for more than 10 minutes, GT-R is no worse than a G37. The point is you can ride in rear seat of one if you need to.

You've gone and asked every GT-R owner why they bought it? I've seen a few on the roads here in Silicon Valley, and used as daily drivers.

I love the ZR-1 too, but in a different way. To me, GT-R is a miracle of modern engineering, and for a car of its weight and power to be posting the numbers it is posting is nothing short of spectacular. It's basically have your cake and eat it too, have all your comforts and features, have your AWD capability, but still deliver world class super car performance through technology, with no sacrifices and much more easily accessible.
ZR-1 is a much more simple, tried and true, approach, low weight, high power, big tires. There is a lot of beauty in that simplicity as well, but it doesn't take away from the GT-R. This pissing match between GT-R and ZR-1 really overshadows that they are all amazing cars on their own. I personally would rather own the ZR-1, actually, because I like shifting my own gears, and I like the simple approach. I am an electrical engineer, so I deal with enough electronics at work But unlike you I can also appreciate what the Nissan GT-R team has accomplished by taking what is functionally an AWD GT coupe and giving it super car beating levels of performance at an affordable price. This car is a jack of all trades and a master of them all too.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

oh that lowly 600HP 8.4L V10

 

[lsd]

Can't have a GTR thread without the vette fanboys running around..
AMERICA F#$K YEAH!

anyway..
Nissan has never considered the vette a target, the ZR-1 nor Z06 are NOT on the scopes, it's the 911 turbo which has ALWAYS been the benchmark even from early on with the R32 and such. Even so this is the base GTR which costs a good $20k less than the ZR-1 and it's just about to match or beat the ZR-1. No doubt the V-spec will beat the ZR-1 times and will probably match the ACR but if Nissan/Nismo keeps to it's trim line up there will be much much MUCH faster variations to come .

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski




Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR actually has a proper adjustable coilover suspension, none of that leaf spring mumbo jumbo. The ACR is badass and with a good driver I think it can dip into the teens.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: heymrdj

Originally posted by: aleckz

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: FerraraZ
I saw this and was expecting alot more from Nissan. It came up shorter than the Dodge Viper which should be laughable.

Does not compute.

When I read this, my computer blue screened.

I think what he's trying to say is all this jazz over the import when a "lowly" domestic wipes it's own ass with it.

Lowly pushrod, leaf spring, mullet mobile at that.

The ACR Viper is a stripped down race car. No air conditioning, stereo, insulation, carpeting, etc.
GT-R is a 4 seater luxury GT coupe with all the comforts and AWD to boot.

The GT-R is trying to beat the ZR-1. Which has all of those comforts. What's your point again?

The GT-R isn't really a "4 seater" it's a 2+2. No one would want to ride in that cramp ass backseat for more than 10 minutes. It doesn't really count if you can't really use it. No one buys it as a luxury 4 seater GT car. LOL Gotta love fanboys.

Oh, ok, so 2+2 =/= 4 anymore? Generally, I would not want to ride in a back seat of most GT luxury coupes for more than 10 minutes, GT-R is no worse than a G37. The point is you can ride in rear seat of one if you need to.

You've gone and asked every GT-R owner why they bought it? I've seen a few on the roads here in Silicon Valley, and used as daily drivers.

I love the ZR-1 too, but in a different way. To me, GT-R is a miracle of modern engineering, and for a car of its weight and power to be posting the numbers it is posting is nothing short of spectacular. It's basically have your cake and eat it too, have all your comforts and features, have your AWD capability, but still deliver world class super car performance through technology, with no sacrifices and much more easily accessible.
ZR-1 is a much more simple, tried and true, approach, low weight, high power, big tires. There is a lot of beauty in that simplicity as well, but it doesn't take away from the GT-R. This pissing match between GT-R and ZR-1 really overshadows that they are all amazing cars on their own. I personally would rather own the ZR-1, actually, because I like shifting my own gears, and I like the simple approach. I am an electrical engineer, so I deal with enough electronics at work But unlike you I can also appreciate what the Nissan GT-R team has accomplished by taking what is functionally an AWD GT coupe and giving it super car beating levels of performance at an affordable price. This car is a jack of all trades and a master of them all too.

#1 - I never said I didn't appreciate the GT-R. As a matter of fact, show me where I said anything about it other than it's a 2+2?

#2 - You were dogging the ACR and showing it no appreciation. You are missing the fact that most Asian and European car fanboys look down on American muscle for the most part because of the "lack of technology". But in retrospect it's funny because those same cars are able to hold their own with the likes of the technowonder GT-R using that really old tech us silly americans use.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
#1 - I never said I didn't appreciate the GT-R. As a matter of fact, show me where I said anything about it other than it's a 2+2?

It just puzzles me that you are still arguing that 2+2 isn't a 4 seater This is not same as one of these cars that has a rear seat but will only fit a double amputee, this has real rear seats, maybe not the most comfortable, but will fit 2 people for a short trip.

#2 - You were dogging the ACR and showing it no appreciation. You are missing the fact that most Asian and European car fanboys look down on American muscle for the most part because of the "lack of technology". But in retrospect it's funny because those same cars are able to hold their own with the likes of the technowonder GT-R using that really old tech us silly americans use.

I appreciate the ACR for what it is, but ultimately it's a road legal racecar, not really a road car one would use every day, unlike GT-R and ZR-1, so it's not really a fair comparison. It is not surprising to me that a car designed specifically for the track with every feature not needed for track thrown out, can beat cars that were designed for everyday road use.
You seem very bitter about what the GT-R has accomplished with its technology. It defied the usual HP/LB formula. That car should not be anywhere near as fast as a ZR-1, which weighs 500lbs less and has 150 more horsepower and 170 more lb*ft of torque. The fact that it is putting down nearly identical times is a testament to what great engineering can accomplish. Nissan basically went with an AWD GT coupe layout and comforts, took away nothing and gave it supercar performance by using amazing technology from the ground up. Yes, they could have taken a 350Z, modified it with big aero kit, huge tires, thrown out AC, insulation, and stereo, shoehorned a forced induction V8 in there, gave themselves a nice pat on the back and went home. Which would simply prove what we already know, that you can make a car faster by adding power and down force and reducing weight. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not the point of a GT-R. GT-R is about using technology to optimize the whole car as a combined system to make an otherwise regular car much faster than it should be. And it's an amazing demonstration of just that.

 

[heymrdj]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
#1 - I never said I didn't appreciate the GT-R. As a matter of fact, show me where I said anything about it other than it's a 2+2?

It just puzzles me that you are still arguing that 2+2 isn't a 4 seater This is not same as one of these cars that has a rear seat but will only fit a double amputee, this has real rear seats, maybe not the most comfortable, but will fit 2 people for a short trip.

#2 - You were dogging the ACR and showing it no appreciation. You are missing the fact that most Asian and European car fanboys look down on American muscle for the most part because of the "lack of technology". But in retrospect it's funny because those same cars are able to hold their own with the likes of the technowonder GT-R using that really old tech us silly americans use.

I appreciate the ACR for what it is, but ultimately it's a road legal racecar, not really a road car one would use every day, unlike GT-R and ZR-1, so it's not really a fair comparison. It is not surprising to me that a car designed specifically for the track with every feature not needed for track thrown out, can beat cars that were designed for everyday road use.
You seem very bitter about what the GT-R has accomplished with its technology. It defied the usual HP/LB formula. That car should not be anywhere near as fast as a ZR-1, which weighs 500lbs less and has 150 more horsepower and 170 more lb*ft of torque. The fact that it is putting down nearly identical times is a testament to what great engineering can accomplish. Nissan basically went with an AWD GT coupe layout and comforts, took away nothing and gave it supercar performance by using amazing technology from the ground up. Yes, they could have taken a 350Z, modified it with big aero kit, huge tires, thrown out AC, insulation, and stereo, shoehorned a forced induction V8 in there, gave themselves a nice pat on the back and went home. Which would simply prove what we already know, that you can make a car faster by adding power and down force and reducing weight. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not the point of a GT-R. GT-R is about using technology to optimize the whole car as a combined system to make an otherwise regular car much faster than it should be. And it's an amazing demonstration of just that.

Last i checked the viper has sound dampening, audio system ect. These items are removed (for the gain of losing 40lbs) only if u have the Hard Core ACR package.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
#1 - I never said I didn't appreciate the GT-R. As a matter of fact, show me where I said anything about it other than it's a 2+2?

It just puzzles me that you are still arguing that 2+2 isn't a 4 seater This is not same as one of these cars that has a rear seat but will only fit a double amputee, this has real rear seats, maybe not the most comfortable, but will fit 2 people for a short trip.

#2 - You were dogging the ACR and showing it no appreciation. You are missing the fact that most Asian and European car fanboys look down on American muscle for the most part because of the "lack of technology". But in retrospect it's funny because those same cars are able to hold their own with the likes of the technowonder GT-R using that really old tech us silly americans use.

I appreciate the ACR for what it is, but ultimately it's a road legal racecar, not really a road car one would use every day, unlike GT-R and ZR-1, so it's not really a fair comparison. It is not surprising to me that a car designed specifically for the track with every feature not needed for track thrown out, can beat cars that were designed for everyday road use.
You seem very bitter about what the GT-R has accomplished with its technology. It defied the usual HP/LB formula. That car should not be anywhere near as fast as a ZR-1, which weighs 500lbs less and has 150 more horsepower and 170 more lb*ft of torque. The fact that it is putting down nearly identical times is a testament to what great engineering can accomplish. Nissan basically went with an AWD GT coupe layout and comforts, took away nothing and gave it supercar performance by using amazing technology from the ground up. Yes, they could have taken a 350Z, modified it with big aero kit, huge tires, thrown out AC, insulation, and stereo, shoehorned a forced induction V8 in there, gave themselves a nice pat on the back and went home. Which would simply prove what we already know, that you can make a car faster by adding power and down force and reducing weight. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not the point of a GT-R. GT-R is about using technology to optimize the whole car as a combined system to make an otherwise regular car much faster than it should be. And it's an amazing demonstration of just that.

I don't think you understand that you were the one denouncing the ACR because it's a "race car" on a race track. But for some odd reason you think the GT-R is some super amazing car because it's built from the ground up to do exactly that with bells and whistles. The ACR is based on a platform that has been available since 1992!!!!!

http://www.motortrend.com/road...e_viper_acr/index.html

The Viper uses the SAME engine that is in its normal production car. The car overall is the same as the stock viper. It's only 40 pounds lighter, but it has updated components that allow it to be quicker and handle better. So, the viper ACR is no different than the ZR-1 or GT-R as far as an "every day driver". I think it's completely stupid to call the ZR-1, Viper or GT-R an every day driver. 99% of the people who buy these things only drive them on the weekend or special occations.

"The standard ACR is 40 pounds lighter than the regular Viper coupe. An optional "Hard Core" pack saves an extra 40 pounds through the removal of the audio system, underhood silencer pad, trunk carpet, and tire inflator. The radio is replaced by a lightweight cover that can be configured to mount the lap timer that comes with the package. Hard-core, indeed."

As great as the GT-R is, it is still BRAND NEW technology that is built from the ground up with AWD as a wanna-be super car. The Viper is old technology that is still able to beat the GT-R. The GT-R is built with the intent to break nurburgring records. So, is it amazing that they are close to breaking the record because they are spending all their time trying to tweak the car to do so?

THAT was the point the others were trying to make. Viper is just as amazing when you consider it's using "older" technology that GT-R fanboys make fun of. I can't possibly make my point any simpler for you. They are both great cars in their own right - just built differently. Brute force vs. technology.

Educate yourself on the difference between a true 4 seater vehicle and a 2+2 body style. It's not a freaking math problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_(car_body_style)

 

[senseamp]

I think I've said what I had to say on this topic.
If you don't get it, you don't get it.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think I've said what I had to say on this topic.
If you don't get it, you don't get it.

That's fine, as long as you understand what you were spouting off wasn't true. ACR does include those things. It's the hardcore package that strips some of it. The ACR is actually nothing more than a tuned Viper w/ increased handling. Still stock and not built as a "race car". So the point is moot.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think I've said what I had to say on this topic.
If you don't get it, you don't get it.

That's fine, as long as you understand what you were spouting off wasn't true. ACR does include those things. It's the hardcore package that strips some of it. The ACR is actually nothing more than a tuned Viper w/ increased handling. Still stock and not built as a "race car". So the point is moot.

The hardcore package is what set the Nurburgring time.