UPDATE: I pull the trigger on the LG 226WT

[Starbuck1975]

I did call their corporate HQ, technical department, to see if the customer service rep I spoke with just gave me an answer without really knowing what she was talking about...of course, corporate HQ I got voicemail, but hopefully they will call me back.

As for the different experiences that users are reporting, I am not sure what to make of that yet. Until I can verify that the variants use different panels, it could just be rumor mill.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Ok, in terms of model availability, I hit a couple of stores over lunch and this is what I found out.

I picked up my LCD at Fry's, and they only carry the 226WTQ

I checked Circuit City, and they too have the 226WTQ

Best Buy has the 226WT

Newegg has the 226WTX

So that would suggest there are three variants out there...226WTQ, 226WT and 226WTX.

Hopefully I can find out more.

 

[BernardP]

There is the Q vs non Q question, and there is the 2ms vs 5ms response time question. It is certain there is only one panel in all LG 22-inch monitors. I would humbly submit however that there are models with overdrive (2ms) and models without (5ms).

Typically, overdrive increases response time and reduces ghosting at the expense of increased picture artifacts.

The panel itself, as seen on the LG-Philips website, has 5ms response time. Overdrive is achieved through the control circuitry.

I have seen elsewhere that LG uses different model numbers depending on the retail channel used (LG L245W vs L246W 24-inch widescreen for example)

What would be really useful would be to determine if a given letter in the L226 model name suffix is indicative of the use of overdrive.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Bernard,

From what I have read thus far, the 226WTQ version is the 2ms response time model, but it is also the model for which people are complaining about ghosting...myself included.

The 226WT is apparently the 5ms reponse time model.

So as an owner of the 226WTQ, shouldn't this be the model without any ghosting?

Also wonder if there is a way to turn off the overdrive in either case?

I called LG again, and got a POC at their corporate HQ for obtaining tech specs...of course I got voicemail, so will try again tomorrow.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Ok I found the spec sheets buried on LGs website...the spec sheet for the WT was posted in January, the WTX in March and the WTQ in May.

So LG is definitely tracking three seperate spec sheets on their website.

Their spec sheets are IDENTICAL with the exception of the following:

WT = 5ms response time
WTX = 5ms response time
WTQ = 2ms response time

WT UPC = 719192183100
WTQ UPC = 719192183360
WTX UPC = 719192183179

 

[BernardP]

I had to hunt a while to find this, but finally found the article I remembered. To put it simply, overdrive or "response time compensation" (RTC) can introduce its own kind of virtual artifact due to the inherent error of the process.

There is a good article about this on X-Bit Labs, and this page describes the problem.

When you say that you see a halo around a character, I have the impression it is similar to the RTC error X-Bit labs describes.

So it could be that you are not seeing ghosting, but picture artifacts arising from RTC error. Switching to the 226WT or 226WTX, which don't have overdrive, could possibly eliminate this effect, and 5ms response time is still fast enough.

In the L226 Thread on Hardforums, there is a discussion on a similar issue. The ring around the big red dot looks like the RTC artifact described by X-Bit Labs.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Given the information I have found out thus far, with the "Q" model specs having a higher response time than the "WT" and "WT-X", that would suggest that the "Q" utilizes RTC.

I actually read through the hardforum thread you linked earlier today, and performed the MS Paint red dot test...my LCD did not exhibit the halo as shown in the thread.

An example of when I notice ghosting. In this forum, there is a gray band between each user post. If I run my mouse over this gray area, there is a white shadow, or ghost, that follows the cursor...similarly, the light blue border at the bottom and top of the anandtech webpage, if I run my mouse over it, I see ghosting.

But I haven't noticed any such ghosting in games.

I will try to find out from LG if there is a way to simply turn off the overdrive on the monitor, and see if that corrects the problem. Otherwise, I will probably return the "Q" for a "WT" at Best Buy.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I will try to find out from LG if there is a way to simply turn off the overdrive on the monitor, and see if that corrects the problem. Otherwise, I will probably return the "Q" for a "WT" at Best Buy.

A logical course of action. Please keep us posted.

 

[mark0417]

Originally posted by: BernardP
I had to hunt a while to find this, but finally found the article I remembered. To put it simply, overdrive or "response time compensation" (RTC) can introduce its own kind of virtual artifact due to the inherent error of the process.

There is a good article about this on X-Bit Labs, and this page describes the problem.

When you say that you see a halo around a character, I have the impression it is similar to the RTC error X-Bit labs describes.

So it could be that you are not seeing ghosting, but picture artifacts arising from RTC error. Switching to the 226WT or 226WTX, which don't have overdrive, could possibly eliminate this effect, and 5ms response time is still fast enough.

In the L226 Thread on Hardforums, there is a discussion on a similar issue. The ring around the big red dot looks like the RTC artifact described by X-Bit Labs.

Thanks for posting this - this was a very interesting article for 2 reasons: First, because I am a geek and love this kinda stuff and second because the problem described in the article was THE EXACT issue my 226WTQ was having! So now I know why!

Thanks again!

Mark

 

[Starbuck1975]

Bernard and Mark,

I managed to get a tech specialist at LG corporate HQ on Friday. He is looking into the issue, and said he would email me the tech specs for all three 226WT monitors this coming week.

I am hoping that the issue is due to what Bernard described, and that the 226WT or 226WTX uses the same panel as the 226WTQ, just without the RTC compensation...or, that there is a way to disable it on the 226WTQ.

It is a shame, because I love this monitor otherwise. Either way, I will continue to have this LCD...just a question of whether or not I am exchaning this one, or finding a work around for the ghosting issue.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I am still awaiting a response from LG...so far, I have spoken to representatives in customer service and tech support...I have two POCs who promised an email response to my questions, but I haven't seen anything as of yet.

Getting a bit annoyed by this, and have one week to return my current LCD before my 30 day window closes.

I still can't find conclusive evidence on the true differences between the WT, WTQ and WTX models...although I have found plenty of forums where people warn of the ghosting issues with the WTQ.

 

[imported_Equinox]

I got the Chimei 221D for $249 at Newegg. It is so much better than my 19" that I can't believe it. It seems better to me than what I have seen in Circuit City in the 22" models. I can't say I've seen the LG though. I'm extremely pleased with the Chimei (the base is kind of cheap looking, but I used a different mount on mine - my only complaint with it - minor complaint, but a complaint nonetheless).

 

[Starbuck1975]

I finally have resolution on the differences between the 3 LG 226WT LCDs:

226WT = 226WTX. The only difference between the names is that one is for commercial sale and the other for corporate sale...so it is essentially a supply chain tracking nomenclature...but as with most PC peripherals, the lines between the two tend to blur. Both the WT and WTX have a 5ms response time, and no response time compensation.

The WTQ is a newer version of the 226WT, with response time compensation. LG added the response time compensation to claim a 2ms response time, but the tech support guy I spoke with said that, with the exception of some console systems, it is impossible to notice a difference between 5ms and 2ms. I told him about the ghosting issue, and he said it was normal...and if it was bothering me, to return the WTQ for a WT or WTX.

Also, all three LCDs use the same panel according to the guy I spoke with.

So looks like I am returning my WTQ for a WT or WTX since I now know they are essentially the same LCD.

 

[BernardP]

Good info Starbuck1975.

So it is as I suspected: no RTC on the WT/WTX, hence no RTC artifacts.

I am wondering if the WT/WTX will be completely replaced by the WTQ.

I have no doubt you will tell us if switching to the WT/WTX, solves the RTC artifact issues you were seeing :thumbsup:

 

[Gusty987]

Thanks for the info and good choice, I'm wayyyy happier with my WT.

Hope they have a WT/WTX in stock wherever you bought from or I guess you'll have to eat the restock fee

 

[Starbuck1975]

Went to Circuit City over lunch, and they no longer carry the WT...just the WTQ.

Best Buy apparently carries the WT, but they are not restocking them...I found one Best Buy 30 mins from my apartment that has 7 in stock. Will probably go tonight and grab one.

As for restocking fees, I have 30 days from purchase to return an LCD, no questions asked...so will be returning my current WTQ tonight as well.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Went to Circuit City over lunch, and they no longer carry the WT...just the WTQ.

Best Buy apparently carries the WT, but they are not restocking them...I found one Best Buy 30 mins from my apartment that has 7 in stock. Will probably go tonight and grab one.

As for restocking fees, I have 30 days from purchase to return an LCD, no questions asked...so will be returning my current WTQ tonight as well.

Good hunting!

 

[biostud]

I've just got the HP w2207 which also seems to be a very good monitor.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Unbelievable!!!

I called a Best Buy that apparently had the WT in stock, drove 30 miles to get there, and the box was torn to shreds. Nice of the store clerk I spoke with to point out this little fact before placing the monitor on hold for me.

Needless to say I didn't purchase it...we opened the box, and it was in pretty bad shape.

So after visiting 3 Circuit City's and 2 Best Buy's today, NO ONE HAS THE WT. They all carry the WTQ now, although each store had WTs as their display model. I actually played around with a WT at the Best Buy, and sure enough, no ghosting as I am experiencing with the Q.

Interestingly enough, in a few of the stores, the clerks mentioned that they were aware of the whole "Q" issue, and have had numerous returns in recent weeks.

So basically, I am back to square one if I return my Q...ugh!!!

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
So after visiting 3 Circuit City's and 2 Best Buy's today, NO ONE HAS THE WT. They all carry the WTQ now, although each store had WTs as their display model. I actually played around with a WT at the Best Buy, and sure enough, no ghosting as I am experiencing with the Q.

Interestingly enough, in a few of the stores, the clerks mentioned that they were aware of the whole "Q" issue, and have had numerous returns in recent weeks.

This almost certainly means that the WTx models are discontinued and only WTQ variants are coming down the production line.

The LG techs you spoke to didn't tell you anything about a way to disable RTC in the WTQ, like in a hidden factory menu?

EDIT: Just found out on hardware.fr that the Samsung 226BW allows for manually disabling RTC:

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/673-1/samsung-syncmaster-226bw-c.html

Have a look at the 2 screen shots of the 226BW, on the left, showing a Chimei panel with bad RTC and on the right a Samsung panel with good RTC

Key sentence:

...sauf que cette fois les augmentations de tension sont moins bien maîtrisées. Cela occasionne des dépassements de couleurs, qui peuvent se traduire à l'écran par un halo parfois clair, parfois sombre, autour des objets en mouvement. Comme s'ils étaient surlignés. Tout le monde ne le verra pas, mais aux yeux de certains cet effet est insupportable. Dans ce cas une seule solution : entrer dans l'OSD, et désactiver manuellement la fonction RTA.

Summary translation:

tension variations (in RTC) are not well controlled. This can make a clear or dark halo appear on screen aound moving objects. This effect is not obvious to everyone, but some people can't live with it. There is only one solution: go into the OSD and manually turn-off RTA (RTC)

RTA=response time acceleration=RTC

 

[Starbuck1975]

I found numerous articles on how to disable the RTA/RTC on the Samsung 226BW, but so far, no luck for the LG 226WTQ.

The LG tech I spoke with said he would email me on Monday if he finds out anything on how to disable the RTA/RTC on the 226WTQ. Unfortunately, this is past when I can return my 226WTQ for a full refund.

The LG is still advertising both the WTQ and WTX on their website...the WTX is the commercial version. I cannot find any vendors save Newegg that has the WTX, but for some reason, the WTX sells for significantly more than the WT/WTQ.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I finally found a WT...sitting in the store room of a Circuit City that I happened to pass by today while running other errands.

Just got done setting it up, and after running a few tests, I can confirm that the WT definitely does not have the ghosting artifacts as witnessed on the WTQ.

But it does come at a sacrifice...the colors are a bit "cooler" for lack of a better word, but certainly not to the point where I will notice in a few days...plus I need to calibrate this monitor a bit, which interestingly enough does look a bit different at factory default than the WTQ. But no color banding and dead pixels was my main concern at this point, and so far so good.

Text is a lot sharper, and I will probably game on it a bit tonight to see if the 5ms WT response time makes a difference compared to the 2ms WTQ response time.

So if you have a WTQ, and can manage to track down a WT, I would recommend it...when I first purchased the WTQ, I didnt think the ghosting would be a big deal, but it did prove increasinly distracting as weeks went on.

 

[BernardP]

Great news Starbuck1975. After all this detective work, you deserved to get your hands on a WT.

As the LG226 is still on my shopping list, I would be interested to know if you learn of a way to disable RTC in the WTQ. It is likely that when/if I decide to get one, only the WTQ will be available.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I am having one problem with the WT...WIN XP is not recognizing the driver provided by LG on the included CD-ROM.

The instructions say to open Display Properties>Settings>Advanced

Click in the Monitor tab

Click Properties

Click on the Driver Tab

Choose Update Driver

Now I have tried both the Wizard and pointing WIN XP directly to the driver manually...in both cases, I receive an error message. Unfortunately, until I get the driver loaded, I cannot calibrate the monitor properly.

Any tips?

 

[BernardP]

Have you removed the previous LG driver for the WTQ, using Uninstall in the Driver control panel, not "Revert to previous driver"? (Revert doesn't remove the newer driver)

You should only have the default Windows driver on your system before installing the new driver

Have you tried getting a more recent driver from LG's web site?

Is the driver an .INF file?
In that case, you can try copying it to the C drive, and double clicking it, or Start/Run and point to it.