*Update-Now w/penal code*I got a ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign, but there was no stop sign! Just a crosswalk

[JEDI]

I live in VA. this was at my local comunity college (annandale campus).

it's basically a 2 way street and in the middle of the block is a crosswalk. i didnt think anything of it since there was no pedestrians anywhere in sight. after i passed the crosswalk, a REAL police car (and not campus security) stops me and gives me a ticket for disreguarding a stop sign.

i take it communuity college streets are public street, and not private like in a mall since REAL police were able to give out tickets.

but is the ticket they gave me valid???

THX

Update: on the ticket, the cop wrote "46.2-821 Disregard a stop sign" but there was no stop sign..just the crosswalk. you think i got better than even odds of beating this? i dont want to spend 4 hrs in court for nothing.

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Man u gotta watch out for the popo.

If theres no stop sign I think u can appeal the ticket.

 

[Linflas]

Was this on the main road in back where the lot for the community center is? If so I do not recall any stop signs along there. I would go take some photo's stamped with date and time of the area where the ticket was issued of you are going to court over it.

 

[JEDI]

yep, backroads leading to student parking, near the road bumps. only thing there were the lines for a crosswalk.

 

[Jerboy]

Originally posted by: XFILE
yep, backroads leading to student parking, near the road bumps. only thing there were the lines for a crosswalk.

How much was the ticket? I wouldn't waste your time fighting this in person, but I'd definitely photograph it and write a letter explaining there is no such thing as stop sign where you got the ticket.

 

[Nitemare]

Virginia cope...ughhh..

Wife got a ticket in a speed trap they had setup because we had out of state plates, but weren't speeding. We were only going 5 over the speed limit, the liar said he clocked us going 12 over. We asked to see proof and he said "By the State laws of Virginia I don't have to show you anything" Where else on earth is the words of a few mortal men the absolute laws of the land?
Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Fight the ticket then file a civil suit against the police officer in question for abuse of power and harassment. He probably only stopped you to meet a quota and you looked young and naive.

 

[cipher00]

Hmm. I used to live in VA, so here's a question: was there a stop line before the crosswalk? Something like this



--------- | <-Center line
|
-----------------------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <-Crosswalk
-----------------------------
|
| ---------------- <-This is a stop line

If there was, a stop line is the same thing as a stop sign. It's a BS revenue raiser if no one's in the crosswalk, but technically you have to stop.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Virginia cope...ughhh..

Wife got a ticket in a speed trap they had setup because we had out of state plates, but weren't speeding. We were only going 5 over the speed limit, the liar said he clocked us going 12 over. We asked to see proof and he said "By the State laws of Virginia I don't have to show you anything" Where else on earth is the words of a few mortal men the absolute laws of the land?
Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Fight the ticket then file a civil suit against the police officer in question for abuse of power and harassment. He probably only stopped you to meet a quota and you looked young and naive.

They have never objected to showing it to me the times I have been stopped. The law does say that they should show it to you but are not required to. Below is the relevent paragraph from the Commonwealth of Virginia code:

Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter.

In theory they would have produce proof in court to back up the charge but we all know that at the level traffic court operates at the whole "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" thing is ignored.

 

[Linflas]

I am guessing this was a bored Fairfax County cop? He must not have had anyplace to go screw up traffic by doing sticker checks so was cruising the NOVA lot for sticker violators.

 

[JEDI]

there was no stop line. just the crosswalk bars

Originally posted by: cipher00
Hmm. I used to live in VA, so here's a question: was there a stop line before the crosswalk? Something like this



--------- | <-Center line
|
-----------------------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <-Crosswalk
-----------------------------
|
| ---------------- <-This is a stop line

If there was, a stop line is the same thing as a stop sign. It's a BS revenue raiser if no one's in the crosswalk, but technically you have to stop.

 

[JEDI]

i think these cops (2 in patrol car) are permanently assigned to the school. on the ticket it said patrol officer, NVCC. (nvcc=northern viginia comm college)

Originally posted by: Linflas
I am guessing this was a bored Fairfax County cop? He must not have had anyplace to go screw up traffic by doing sticker checks so was cruising the NOVA lot for sticker violators.

 

[BlueApple]

NOVA... where the N stands for Knowledge.

At the campus closest to my house (Alexandria Campus) the NOVA rent-a-cops are so anal about driving and who much time a car stops at a stop sign, or do you signal when pulling into a parking space, etcetera.

 

[cipher00]

Well so much for the stop-line theory.

Quote:
Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter

Do I read this right? It seems to me that the officer "shall" show you the reading if s/he's in a car but not if s/he's in an airplane or helicopter. That sounds reasonable....

 

[Linflas]

I was talking to another guy here at work and we both recall that there are signs there that require you to yield to pedestrians but no stop signs. What is the exact wording on the ticket? Normally they write the code section you are charged with breaking and any other relevant information.

 

[LordThing]

i didnt think anything of it since there was no pedestrians anywhere in sight.

Not to be contrary, but that is probably the rub of the situation. You do have to pause at crosswalks, if it was a rolling stop, you might be able to fight this, but I assume by the tone you kinda just blew through. Just be happy he only charged you with failure to stop rather than recklace endangerment.

Just cause you don't see pedestrians, doesn't mean you don't have to at least yield at the crosswalk. Just cause I don't see any cars anywhere, doesn't mean I don't have to stop at a stopsign. Simple as that.

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Yall talk about a stop sign. Up in New Jerusalem we get stopped for DWB. And I aint complaining

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: LordThing

i didnt think anything of it since there was no pedestrians anywhere in sight.

Not to be contrary, but that is probably the rub of the situation. You do have to pause at crosswalks, if it was a rolling stop, you might be able to fight this, but I assume by the tone you kinda just blew through. Just be happy he only charged you with failure to stop rather than recklace endangerment.

Just cause you don't see pedestrians, doesn't mean you don't have to at least yield at the crosswalk. Just cause I don't see any cars anywhere, doesn't mean I don't have to stop at a stopsign. Simple as that.

Yield does not mean stop. If there are no pedestrians present then he is not required to stop.

§ 46.2-924. Right-of-way of pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.

A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed thirty-five miles per hour.

B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.

No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.

The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.

Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.

C. The governing body of any county having the urban county executive form of government, any county having the county manager plan of government, the City of Fairfax, the County of Loudoun, and any city with a population between 110,000 and 115,000, may by ordinance provide for the installation and maintenance of highway signs at marked crosswalks specifically requiring operators of motor vehicles, at the locations where such signs are installed, to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing or attempting to cross the highway. Any operator of a motor vehicle who fails at such locations to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians as required by such signs shall be guilty of a traffic infraction punishable by a fine of no less than $100 or more than $500. The Commonwealth Transportation Board shall develop criteria for the design, location, and installation of such signs. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any limited access highway.

(Code 1950, §§ 46-243, 46-244; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-231; 1962, c. 471; 1968, c. 165; 1972, c. 576; 1976, c. 322; 1989, c. 727; 2000, c. 323; 2002, c. 327.)

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: cipher00
Well so much for the stop-line theory.

Quote:
Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter

Do I read this right? It seems to me that the officer "shall" show you the reading if s/he's in a car but not if s/he's in an airplane or helicopter. That sounds reasonable....

Apparently it was not applicable to us. Even a lawyer that we contacted in Virginia stated that he was within his rights to not allow us to see the results on his radar gun. He even said the spot where we got stopped was a notorious spped trap and the reason why we were stopped were because we had out of state plates. He said that they implemented that policy for safety reasons. The location in question was right before you get on 95 coming from Virginia Beach. We saw him a mile or two ahead, looked at the speedometer and we were going 5 miles over, passed him by. As soon as he was able to see that we were out of staters, the good old boy turned on his blue lights and pulled us over.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: cipher00
Well so much for the stop-line theory.

Quote:
Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter

Do I read this right? It seems to me that the officer "shall" show you the reading if s/he's in a car but not if s/he's in an airplane or helicopter. That sounds reasonable....

Apparently it was not applicable to us. Even a lawyer that we contacted in Virginia stated that he was within his rights to not allow us to see the results on his radar gun. He even said the spot where we got stopped was a notorious spped trap and the reason why we were stopped were because we had out of state plates. He said that they implemented that policy for safety reasons. The location in question was right before you get on 95 coming from Virginia Beach. We saw him a mile or two ahead, looked at the speedometer and we were going 5 miles over, passed him by. As soon as he was able to see that we were out of staters, the good old boy turned on his blue lights and pulled us over.

Cops everywhere like out of state because they generally don't bother to mess with court. I got a ticket once in North Carolina on 95 North about 10 miles from the Virginia border. The cop pulled me and a van in front of me over and when both of us were in his car he told the van guy he had him on radar and told me that he did not have me on radar but in his opinion I was speeding as well. In Virginia that would not fly (unless they have changed the code) because absent electronic detection he is required to pace me for 1/4 mile and produce in court upon request a calibration statement for his speedometer. Just as in your case I suspect I would not have gotten ticketed if I had NC plates.

 

[Squisher]

Sounds like you have a valid case. I'd fight it. Chances are they'll never show up.

However, if they do expect them to say that there were pedestrians waiting to cross.

 

[sohcrates]

I've gotten 1 speeding ticket in Alexandria and several parking tickets / no front plate tickets in arlington.

I hate Virginia...especially the personal property tax in Alexandria

 

[joe678]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Wife got a ticket in a speed trap they had setup because we had out of state plates, but weren't speeding. We were only going 5 over the speed limit, the liar said he clocked us going 12 over.

isnt 5 over the speed limit speeding or am i missing something?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: LordThing

i didnt think anything of it since there was no pedestrians anywhere in sight.

Not to be contrary, but that is probably the rub of the situation. You do have to pause at crosswalks, if it was a rolling stop, you might be able to fight this, but I assume by the tone you kinda just blew through. Just be happy he only charged you with failure to stop rather than recklace endangerment.

Just cause you don't see pedestrians, doesn't mean you don't have to at least yield at the crosswalk. Just cause I don't see any cars anywhere, doesn't mean I don't have to stop at a stopsign. Simple as that.

Within a distance of 25 feet there are THREE crosswalks. WTF is having a crosswalk every 8 feet?!

yeah, i blew past the 1st crosswalk. when i get home, i'll post the law code thats on my ticket.

 

[ddwbi0]

Originally posted by: joe678

Originally posted by: Linflas

Wife got a ticket in a speed trap they had setup because we had out of state plates, but weren't speeding. We were only going 5 over the speed limit, the liar said he clocked us going 12 over.

isnt 5 over the speed limit speeding or am i missing something?

yep, if youre going anything over the speed limit, the cops can pull you over for speeding. thats why its called a speed limit. I think the best thing to do would be to just make sure theres no stop sign, OR wording on the road itslef that says stop. If there isnt fight it. Or maybe you could just take defenseive driving for it.

 

[Dually]

You only have to stop at crosswalks if people are there waiting to cross. Take pictures of the intersection you went through and then fight it in court.