Update old AMD system for gaming

[jclose]

Hey all,
I have been away from the upgrade/building world for a long time. I used to follow and know all the ins and outs of GPUs, CPUs, RAM and MBs, but alas, I haven't kept up with it and am at a loss as to how to make a decision. See, I'm finding that I have a want/need to get back into it: Fallout 4 is coming soon...and while it's not the most demanding game, my old system doesn't seem to really cut it. I can't even get video drivers installed on Windows 10 for my graphics card.

---------------------------------
Here's my current setup:
Windows 10 Pro
AMD Phenom II X2 555 3.2Ghz
4GB RAM
MSI 790X-G45 MB (AM3 socket)
ATI Radeon HD4800
Antec Earthwatts EA-650 PSU (650w)
Antec P150 case
Samsung 2443BWX LCD monitor


Minimum Specs for the game:
i5-2300 2.8GHz | AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0 GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 550Ti 2GB | Radeon HD 7870 2GB

Recommended:
i7 4790 3.6GHz | AMD FX 9590 4.7 GHz
Nvidia GTX 780 3GB | Radeon R9 290X 4GB

-----------------------

I don't need the biggest fastest things. I just need decent. I figure that I'm OK with 30-45 fps at higher settings. I honestly can't recall the last time that I actually measured what FPS I was getting with my gear, if that is an indication of how much I 'care' about it - but that is hard to design for.

The last big name game I ended up playing on this machine was BioShock Infinite and this setup did just fine with that. I don't recall what resolution I played at, but I try to shoot for 1280x1024, maybe even 1600x1200. (My monitor can support 1920x1200 natively.)

I would like to reuse existing parts if possible - this is purely for budgetary concerns. I was hoping that a new GPU and/or CPU would suffice, and reuse everything else. I don't have the knowledge-base anymore to know if that makes sense, or if it is possible to reach the game's suggested minimum specs with my current MB. I would like to see what could be done for $200-$300; but it is possible that I might have to target $500 if redoing a bunch of things.

Overclocking things is not important; I don't have anything overclocked currently. I prefer lower power and lower noise components, to try and keep the machine as quiet as possible.

Maybe if I could get some graphics drivers installed I could at least try the existing hardware with Fallout 4 and then decide what to upgrade? Is a GPU upgrade all I really need?

And 'APU's? What the heck?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Phenom II X4 945 3.0Ghz as a minimum? Wow, that's a pretty beefy game.

You could either buy a 945/955/965 Phenom II and drop it in, with a new GPU, or you could consider an entire platform upgrade.

The entire platform upgrade (Skylake i5 CPU, mobo, DDR4 RAM) would probably cost $600 or so.

The thing that I'm concerned about is, if you drop in a Phenom II X4 for that game, what about the next game in line next year, with even higher minimum requirements? Whereas, if you spend the money on a Skylake quad now, you will be set for the next 3-4 or maybe even 5 years.

Edit: But if you do spend $600 on Skylake, that doesn't do anything for your outdated, obsolete GPU. Which you would also have to take care of.

TBH, you're in a tough spot, you're going to have to spend some $$$ to get a faster rig either way. Dual-cores are pretty-much at a dead end these days, as far as gaming goes.

 

[Ken g6]

I was hoping that a new GPU and/or CPU would suffice, and reuse everything else. I don't have the knowledge-base anymore to know if that makes sense, or if it is possible to reach the game's suggested minimum specs with my current MB.

Interesting, it looks like Fallout 4 uses the same engine as Skyrim. Skyrim generally cares about single-core speed and GPU VRAM speed. So if you really want to try keeping most of this machine, and you already have 2x2GB RAM, you could try it with just a new video card. If disk swapping was your biggest problem at that point you could get another 2x2GB RAM and try again; but at that point you're buying stuff that might not be reusable in a better build. The last step down this increasingly dubious path would be to try getting a quad-core at-least-3GHz Phenom II CPU. I can't tell what CPUs your board supports because I'm getting an error from the MSI site.

But Skyrim's performance doesn't match what this game is listing as minimums. I'd suggest waiting until the game comes out, seeing some benchmarks, and then deciding.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I can't even get video drivers installed on Windows 10 for my graphics card.
Maybe if I could get some graphics drivers installed I could at least try the existing hardware with Fallout 4 and then decide what to upgrade? Is a GPU upgrade all I really need?

That's because your GPU is obsolete, and support for it has been discontinued.

 

[Ken g6]

The entire platform upgrade (Skylake i5 CPU, mobo, DDR4 RAM) would probably cost $600 or so.

I don't see the need for spending that much on upgrading for this game. Based on the limited information provided, here's what I'd get for under $500 if I had to now:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: *Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor ($115.99 @ Directron)
Motherboard: *ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($89.10 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: *G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2800 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: *Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Video Card ($222.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $488.06
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-31 23:50 EDT-0400

The i3-6100 [thread=2452438]is really good[/thread], and should be more than a match for an i5-2300. You could also upgrade this to an i7-6700K, up to 64GB RAM, and a newer video card in the (somewhat distant) future.

Edit: I just put 2 and 2 together and realized I could upgrade the mobo and RAM within the budget.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Nice build, but you havent included the price of Windows. Call it 600.00 with windows license. Still not bad.

I really dont put much stock in the developer's system requirements these days though. Sometimes they are grossly overstated, and others, the requirements are not that high, but the game runs like crap anyway. If I were the OP, I think I would just upgrade the gpu (the 290 you suggested would be a good choice) and see if the game plays satisfactorily. If not then upgrade the cpu (phenom x4 or Vishera if the mb will handle it) or do a full upgrade as you suggested. He could use the gpu anyway.

 

[jclose]

Thanks all for your inputs.

If I were the OP, I think I would just upgrade the gpu (the 290 you suggested would be a good choice) and see if the game plays satisfactorily. If not then upgrade the cpu (phenom x4 or Vishera if the mb will handle it) or do a full upgrade as you suggested. He could use the gpu anyway.

I like the idea of doing this path that you suggest, Frozen. It's a single part that might make things work out with the rest of my gear. If not, it's a part that would be used in other builds, too. Seems like an easy first step.

@Ken, thanks for making up the build list. I appreciate the time for that as well as the insight into the reasons why, what parts are good, etc. It gives me a starting point for understanding the lay of the land again.

-- J

 

[jclose]

Oh, is the R9 290 4GB the card I should concentrate on? Is it the sweet spot of bang for the buck at the moment? I notice that it isn't the 290X being recommended; I'll have to do some more research to see how it stacks up.

Is there any reason to consider DX12 at this stage? I read somewhere that it's kind of expected the ATI cards will fare much better when DX 12 hits, so sticking with that family vs. Nvidia might be a good idea. Or is it just too early to tell?

 

[mvbighead]

I second/third the idea of just going GPU right now. Also... Black Friday is right around the corner... usually there will be some great deals to be had so just keep that in mind and save a few bucks here and there and see if anything pops up.

 

[Leyawiin]

I know you don't care to overclock, but you might be able to unlock your X2 555 to a quad and if you overclocked it to 3.8 to 4.0 Ghz it would help a good bit. Add in a good, current GPU and another 4 GB of memory and you'd be doing much better. TBH, I wouldn't go higher than a GTX 960 or R9 380 without a totally new build.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2927

 

[jclose]

Thanks Leyawiin,
That's an interesting idea, I appreciate your suggestion. I will do some research on unlocking the other cores, but do you have a specific site that describes the procedure?

I mentioned not caring about OC'ing just because that isn't something that I am very interested in. I'm not against it at all!

-- J

 

[jclose]

...The last step down this increasingly dubious path would be to try getting a quad-core at-least-3GHz Phenom II CPU. I can't tell what CPUs your board supports because I'm getting an error from the MSI site.

I was getting results from this URL just now (the US version of their site): http://us.msi.com/support/mb/790XG45.html#support-cpu

 

[Ken g6]

That's an interesting idea, I appreciate your suggestion. I will do some research on unlocking the other cores, but do you have a specific site that describes the procedure?

Yes, that is a good idea. It's in the BIOS.

The MSI 790X-G45 motherboard allows core unlocking through a simple Unlock CPU Core option in the BIOS menu. Flicking the switch rewarded us with a fully functioning quad-core CPU, and after proving this with some tests, we moved onto overclocking.

Note that not all cores unlock successfully. Sometimes they're locked for a reason. You should test the cores after unlocking just as if you had overclocked.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think your CPU will do the job as is. A free unlock of cores is always nice though. A couple of Vid cards in the for sale forum for a little over a $100 that will be well above the minimum too. Then all you need is 4GB ram. Do the whole thing for $150 or so. You obviously are not a hardcore gamer, and no point in spending half a grand or more on a $60 game. Unless you are just ready for a new system.

 

[jclose]

Yes, that is a good idea. It's in the BIOS.

Note that not all cores unlock successfully. Sometimes they're locked for a reason. You should test the cores after unlocking just as if you had overclocked.

Woot! It worked! I now have a Phenom II X4 555!

To be sure about things, though, I wanted to track the temperatures of the CPU with the new cores; the TDP rating went up, of course, so I wanted to see what temperatures my cooler (the stock AMD fan) was performing at. I'm having a dickens of a time finding a CPU Temp app that will show me the temps, though. The BIOS temps are reported, but that doesn't help me much under load. I tried CPU Core, Open Hardware Info, and HWinfo. Everything shows blank/empty/zero values for the CPU temps themselves. HWInfo at least reported the MSI MB sensor reading for the CPU, which will probably work out OK for this lightweight test. For one program I did find that the CPU itself wasn't on it's supported CPU list.

So I haven't measured the temps under gaming loads yet; I hope to get to that today. Right now, idle temps are about 55-57. I'm not sure what they were before I switched the other cores on.

The OS does load faster, I noticed.

 

[mvbighead]

I thought this app did a good job (but I could be wrong):

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

As long as your system is stable, no need to worry about the cores. From what I recall, AMD simply disabled those cores if they didn't pass the threshold. For most, a little bump in power and they perform just fine. I have an X3 running at X4 for the past 2-3 years.

 

[jclose]

The CPU unlocking seems to have been entirely successful. I was able to play an older game for a while with no lock ups, glitches, or artifacts.

So my first, and hopefully only, purchase is going to be a video card. So if I'm spending $200-$300 on just a video card is the R9 290 still the right card to focus on?

And what about the system RAM? Is 4GB really practical or do I need to up it to the recommended 8GB?

Thanks all.

-- J

 

[Smoove910]

Speedfan might help monitor your temps, although I seem to recall the temp sensor being whacky once the cores were unlocked. I have an X4 unlocked to an X6 and it has this issue too.

 

[Zorander]

Congrats on unlocking those cores. You can start overclocking those cores as well. I think they can achieve around 3.5GHz and slightly higher. Do use better-than-stock cooling though.

Highly recommend a vide card upgrade too as it brings the most improvements for gaming (and you can carry it over to a new system).

I also recommend, if budget allows, for a minimum of 8GB of RAM. 4GB is likely quite restricted for a lot of things nowadays.

Cheers!

 

[Ken g6]

I see [thread=2453975]a Fallout 4 benchmark finally came out[/thread]. Get a GTX 970 if you can afford to.

 

[jclose]

On the subject of upgrading the system memory: is it better to put in 4x2GB sticks or 2x4GB sticks?

The MB is dual channel DDR3-1200; it supports 8GB max. I currently have 2x2GB of DDR-1333 Corsair - matched pairs. I have found the exact same kits still available for $40. It appears that 2x4GB kits run around $45-$50. If nothing else, I suppose those larger modules would more likely be reusable in the future...except that DDR4 is likely to supplant DDR3.

 

[crashtech]

Get the 2x4GB. Memory problems multiply by the number of sticks, and the price is close enough.

 

[jclose]

That's an excellent point about limiting the number of possible pieces.

 

[crashtech]

Btw, I was able to sell the 2x2GB DDR3 out of my old AMD rig, you can probably get $20 or more for the ones you have.

 

[jclose]

I got the new memory (2x4GB) and installed that; bought the game as well yesterday.

Just for fun I installed it and was going to try it with my existing video card. Didn't do so well - Windows just reports that 'Fallout 4 has stopped working' very quickly after I click 'Play'. I don't get any other splash screens from the game.

Had to try it. Now to buy the video card. Darn Sapphire 290 that was $200 4 or 5 days ago is now $250.