Update: Passed both houses - To Obama now (Cliff deal delayed thread)

[Lithium381]

just saw the details of the plan, or at least the version foxnews has reported . . . . it's actually not too bad. . . they address AMT and provide exemptions for LTCG taxes to a reasonable level! I think they should go for it but it doesn't have "spending cuts" that will make a difference though

 

[Engineer]

Listening to CSPAN online right now and I've changed my mind that this will pass. Both the GOP and DEM debaters have urged for it. Both sides will claim victory on this in their own terms (based on the comments so far).

 

[michal1980]

Listening to CSPAN online right now and I've changed my mind that this will pass. Both the GOP and DEM debaters have urged for it. Both sides will claim victory on this in their own terms (based on the comments so far).

Any republican claiming victory is a lair. Any r voting for this is a rino, and might as well switch parties

 

[lotus503]

Any republican claiming victory is a lair. Any r voting for this is a rino, and might as well switch parties

I don't know where you have been for the last 3 decades but republicans are big spenders have been since Reagan. if they switch parties they will just spend it on different shit.

 

[Engineer]

Nope.

Reagan never said that, Cheney is quoted as saying "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" (which is wrong). You might want to mock the Keynesians as well, they're pretty fond of deficits.

I stand corrected (at least from what I could Google). It's amazing how many times I have seen that on this very forum and you are the first (that I recall) to correct anyone on it. Thanks! :thumbsup:

But I still can see the reference that they don't matter in context of a rising economy as long as they are below the rate of growth of the economy, and I don't ever see a balanced budget being forced in the US (unless our money becomes something other than the worlds reserve currency).

 

[Engineer]

Any republican claiming victory is a lair. Any r voting for this is a rino, and might as well switch parties

The Georgia rep. basically stated that the 12 year old Bush tax cuts, crafted by Republicans, could now be made permanent and become a stepping stone to tax reform. Urged his colleagues to vote yes on this. Slammed the dems for being against these cuts in 2001/2003 yet they are now for them.

 

[michal1980]

I don't know where you have been for the last 3 decades but republicans are big spenders have been since Reagan. if they switch parties they will just spend it on different shit.

i'm done voting for any of them after this last fold. any party that comes in and actually starts cutting real spending. I might vote for them but they have to show me first.

 

[michal1980]

The Georgia rep. basically stated that the 12 year old Bush tax cuts, crafted by Republicans, could now be made permanent and become a stepping stone to tax reform. Urged his colleagues to vote yes on this. Slammed the dems for being against these cuts in 2001/2003 yet they are now for them.

a huge tax increase, with spending increases is not somehow a tax cut.

nothing but poltical spin by the right. who should have got spending cuts. instead Obama got 99% of what he wanted. and the republicans took away that tiny 1% from him (tax increase for those >400k vs 250k. wow talk about Obama compromise.)

 

[cwjerome]

i'm done voting for any of them after this last fold. any party that comes in and actually starts cutting real spending. I might vote for them but they have to show me first.

Hate to say it, but every time a tax-cut with spending-cut plan has passed, including the huge plans with Reagan and Bush1, the spending cuts never -NEVER- materialized. It doesn't happen. Ever. Government only goes in one direction... more, not less. Even if bigger cuts to spending was part of the plan it wouldn't happen. Sorry. Life's a motherfucker.

 

[michal1980]

Hate to say it, but every time a tax-cut with spending-cut plan has passed, including the huge plans with Reagan and Bush1, the spending cuts never -NEVER- materialized. It doesn't happen. Ever. Government only goes in one direction... more, not less. Even if bigger cuts to spending was part of the plan it wouldn't happen. Sorry. Life's a motherfucker.

then the country will go broke. and I'll have an extra 10 mintues of my life back come election day not voting for these assholes.

 

[Lithium381]

Hate to say it, but every time a tax-cut with spending-cut plan has passed, including the huge plans with Reagan and Bush1, the spending cuts never -NEVER- materialized. It doesn't happen. Ever. Government only goes in one direction... more, not less. Even if bigger cuts to spending was part of the plan it wouldn't happen. Sorry. Life's a motherfucker.

the sad truth . . . because tax increases happen NOW and that's that . . . spending cuts are over 10 years, which can't be controlled and even then baseline budgeting has to stop . . . cut current spending 10% EVERYWHERE and freeze increases for 4 years and see what we can do

 

[Engineer]

Damn, they are going to debate this thing (really not much debate because both sides are voting for it so far) for the entire hour.

Wow, the Democrat who is speaking just stated that we "just set up 3 more fiscal cliffs". Wow, remarkably accurate, IMO.

 

[DCal430]

Damn, they are going to debate this thing (really not much debate because both sides are voting for it so far) for the entire hour.

Wow, the Democrat who is speaking just stated that we "just set up 3 more fiscal cliffs". Wow, remarkably accurate, IMO.

Is the 3 more cliffs because most of the items are short term and will expire at the end of the year requiring the this whole thing to happen again?

 

[Engineer]

Is the 3 more cliffs because most of the items are short term and will expire at the end of the year requiring the this whole thing to happen again?

Sequestration was one (2 months from now). Debt Ceiling was another (2 months from now). Missed the 3rd one.

 

[piasabird]

I would only accept this deal if the democrats can never ever use the temporary Bush tax cuts again. Otherwise it is just more lies. In a couple more months the debt ceiling is coming, or does this bill also authorize borrowing more money? I dont watch TV it is depressing.

 

[michal1980]

Sequestration was one (2 months from now). Debt Ceiling was another (2 months from now). Missed the 3rd one.

if both are 2 months from now, then its one 'cliff' not two. more funny Obama math. each cut counts for two.

 

[Engineer]

if both are 2 months from now, then its one 'cliff' not two. more funny Obama math. each cut counts for two.

The debt ceiling was actually yesterday but the treasury took extraordinary measures to keep it from defaulting for 6 to 8 weeks. Can't comment on this in any meaningful way, can you?

 

[Lithium381]

debt celing debates are stupid IMO. . . . if you voted to spend it, vote to have the cash ready and on hand . . . . to do otherwise is smarmy

 

[michal1980]

The debt ceiling was actually yesterday but the treasury took extraordinary measures to keep it from defaulting for 6 to 8 weeks. Can't comment on this in any meaningful way, can you?

I was addressing your miss guided attempt at trying to spin this as having 2 'cliff's' in the next two months. when it will once again only be one cliff negotiation. Where again, the rino's will fold.

 

[Balt]

Well Saint Norquist gave his puppets permission to vote for the bill, so I guess it has a chance to pass in the House. We'll see.

 

[Engineer]

15 minute vote starting now followed by 5 minute vote to suspend the rules.

The final GOP comment was to pass this, work on comprehensive tax reform with lower rates and a broadened base and then to work on spending cuts (in that order).

 

[Engineer]

Well Saint Norquist gave his puppets permission to vote for the bill, so I guess it has a chance to pass in the House. We'll see.

33 GOP have voted for this so far. It will pass. (43 GOP have voted against it).

103 yea to 56 nay...

121 to 70...

126 to 80... (slowing down). 6.5 minutes remain.

143 to 86... 5.5 minutes remain.

156 to 100...4 minutes remain.

200 to 136 ... 0 time left... :hmm:

 

[piasabird]

Everytime we borrow more money we are taking on more risk. Then what will happen is our bond rate will be downgraded again. Debt is sometimes useful, but at some point enough is enough.

 

[First]

Yup, this will pass. Tea Party is finished, new GOP will be more liberal. The country makes progress.

After GOP gets taken to the cleaners again in 2 months, we can finally move onto bigger and better things, like amnesty for immigrants and a comprehensive energy bill.

 

[First]

Everytime we borrow more money we are taking on more risk. Then what will happen is our bond rate will be downgraded again. Debt is sometimes useful, but at some point enough is enough.

lol.