Update: Passed both houses - To Obama now (Cliff deal delayed thread)

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airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
I imagine that Boehner got a little pissed at Reid for calling him a dictator on the floor of the Senate as well as his going on TV and accusing him of protecting his job rather than doing what was right for the American people. Reid is a dick.

I don't think many people would disagree w\ any of those statements.

To your average person viewing this stuff on the news there's some guy named Boner who's stonewalling the whole deal that can result in all of them having to pay higher taxes, etc.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I don't think many people would disagree w\ any of those statements.

To your average person viewing this stuff on the news there's some guy named Boner who's stonewalling the whole deal that can result in all of them having to pay higher taxes, etc.
His name is Boehner. Are you a 12 year old? If not...grow up ffs.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
Republicans folded like a wet noodle. They are now not better then any democrat.

Plus, no spending cuts will happen, sequestration will just be 'delayed' for ever. Just like they always delay medicare payment cuts, just like they fix the ATM every year, just like the debt ceiling goes up every year. They'll just delay the spending cuts.

Then one day, the spending will be so great, that we can no longer afford any of it. And it'll all crash down. And the republicans will take the blame again, as the should for not having any leadership on the issue.

AMT was actually fixed it looks like, the base was increased substantially and then indexed with inflation. . . either way it looks like it will shave almost 2k off of taxes for a 80k family income!
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
I don't think many people would disagree w\ any of those statements.

To your average person viewing this stuff on the news there's some guy named Boner who's stonewalling the whole deal that can result in all of them having to pay higher taxes, etc.

to the average sheep, you're probably right. they're hand fed information that's biased and partisan. . . it's too bad we've got people who didn't pass highschool voting . . who didn't see economics, history or basic math...
 
Nov 30, 2006
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AMT was actually fixed it looks like, the base was increased substantially and then indexed with inflation. . . either way it looks like it will shave almost 2k off of taxes for a 80k family income!
AMT wasn't actually fixed...they just kicked the can down the road for another year. An actual fix would adversely skew CBO deficit projections which already look horrific.

Also, the payroll tax break was not extended which essentially means a 2% tax increase for the average working Joe.

Edit - Hmmmm....maybe AMT was fixed after all. Still verifying.
 
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highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
A gun was held to their heads...but that little nuance appears to be lost on you.

Republicans folded like a wet noodle. They are now not better then any democrat.

Plus, no spending cuts will happen, sequestration will just be 'delayed' for ever. Just like they always delay medicare payment cuts, just like they fix the ATM every year, just like the debt ceiling goes up every year. They'll just delay the spending cuts.

Then one day, the spending will be so great, that we can no longer afford any of it. And it'll all crash down. And the republicans will take the blame again, as the should for not having any leadership on the issue.
Or the bully pulpit.
Michael put it much nicer that I would but........"this."

When this shit can that we're all in finally does go off the cliff, the R's will be hollering, "But we wanted cuts/reform, but, but...." Bull Shit.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Michael put it much nicer that I would but........"this."

When this shit can that we're all in finally does go off the cliff, the R's will be hollering, "But we wanted cuts/reform, but, but...." Bull Shit.
Republicans did did everything within their power to get spending cuts...however, Democrats did everything within their power to obstruct their agenda and "won". They don't call Democrats "tax and spenders" for nothing.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
Republicans did did everything within their power to get spending cuts...however, Democrats did everything within their power to obstruct their agenda and "won". They don't call Republicons "tax and borrowers" for nothing.

Fixed....
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
Republicans did did everything within their power to get spending cuts...however, Democrats did everything within their power to obstruct their agenda and "won". They don't call Democrats "tax and spenders" for nothing.
So R's are just spenders without the taxes? They could have voted no if they wanted cuts. No balls or no desire. Politics 1st....the good of the country.....:|

It will be emphasize again when the debt ceiling gets increased with no substantial cuts. Only "future" promises.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
Republicans did did everything within their power to get spending cuts...however, Democrats did everything within their power to obstruct their agenda and "won". They don't call Democrats "tax and spenders" for nothing.

Republicans don't get to have an 'agenda' because they lost the elections. They got demolished in the presidential election, lost two seats in the Senate and twelve in the House. They are the minority party with some tools to thwart the majority. But to believe that they get an agenda is somewhere between naive and silly.

Boehner's majority in the House is now defunct. Come tomorrow, the Democrats need to pull away a bit over a dozen Republican votes to pass a bill in the House. Granted that they cannot introduce one as the minority, but Boehner has so little control over his own party that he has the choices of doing nothing or going along with the Democrats. He cannot introduce legislation that will pass alone on the backs of his party. I feel almost sorry for the man. But if he were to give up his speakership, someone like Cantor would take the helm. Cantor would have the orthodoxy that the far right admires but therein have even less power.

The vote last night shows that Boehner can control about 1/3 of his members. Cantor can control the other 2/3. Neither of those two groups are large enough to push legislation through without the Democrats. And while Pelosi might dance with Boehner, she'll never go along with Cantor.

Republicans are also doing themselves no favors by denying aid to New Jersey and New York in the wake of Hurricane Sandy. Reliable Republican Peter King has already stated he will vote in opposition to his own party until the aid package is passed. The Republicans were weak after the election, weaker yet after the Plan B fiasco, and now a husk after violating the Hastert Rule last night. They go into the debt ceiling issue with no cards left to play.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
AMT wasn't actually fixed...they just kicked the can down the road for another year. An actual fix would adversely skew CBO deficit projections which already look horrific.

Also, the payroll tax break was not extended which essentially means a 2% tax increase for the average working Joe.

Edit - Hmmmm....maybe AMT was fixed after all. Still verifying.



Alternative Minimum Tax- The dreaded AMT, which was designed to make sure everyone pays at least a minimum amount of tax, was on the table as a potential tax revenue enhancer that, if not reformed, would extend to millions more Americans and increase taxes sharply. As part of the fiscal cliff compromise, the AMT will remain the way it is and will now be indexed to inflation each year.
http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-senate-reaches-fiscal-cliff-compromise

and the rates in 2012 were originally For 2012 the exemption amounts will be 45,000 for Married Filing Jointly and 33,750 for Single unless the law is changed.

but now it'll be 78k and 56k or something like that
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Republicans don't get to have an 'agenda' because they lost the elections. They got demolished in the presidential election, lost two seats in the Senate and twelve in the House. They are the minority party with some tools to thwart the majority. But to believe that they get an agenda is somewhere between naive and silly.

Boehner's majority in the House is now defunct. Come tomorrow, the Democrats need to pull away a bit over a dozen Republican votes to pass a bill in the House. Granted that they cannot introduce one as the minority, but Boehner has so little control over his own party that he has the choices of doing nothing or going along with the Democrats. He cannot introduce legislation that will pass alone on the backs of his party. I feel almost sorry for the man. But if he were to give up his speakership, someone like Cantor would take the helm. Cantor would have the orthodoxy that the far right admires but therein have even less power.

The vote last night shows that Boehner can control about 1/3 of his members. Cantor can control the other 2/3. Neither of those two groups are large enough to push legislation through without the Democrats. And while Pelosi might dance with Boehner, she'll never go along with Cantor.

Republicans are also doing themselves no favors by denying aid to New Jersey and New York in the wake of Hurricane Sandy. Reliable Republican Peter King has already stated he will vote in opposition to his own party until the aid package is passed. The Republicans were weak after the election, weaker yet after the Plan B fiasco, and now a husk after violating the Hastert Rule last night. They go into the debt ceiling issue with no cards left to play.
Really...Republicans don't get to have an agenda? They may not get what they want, but they have the right to their own agenda (whatever that may be) regardless of whether they hold a House/Senate majority or the presidency for that matter. And I'm the one who is silly and naive? Wow.

Anyway, Boehner did what he was essentially forced to do...he chose the lesser of two evils which was the only thing he could do for the good of the country.

Also, do you know why Republicans are objecting to the Sandy relief package? It's because it's filled with pork.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Its not suppose to, its to get the taxes right and that's it for now. Dealing with spending now is stupid and counter productive. This is what is so fucking stupid about the GOP Congress, just vote this in and work on spending after this passes.

What it means is that it takes a crisis to get anything done. Once we're pass that we can pay lip service to our other issues. "Working on spending" means talking about working on things like spending, AKA business as usual.

We can go back to playing video games for a while.
 
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