Update6: Never trust Maxwell to be stable. Ever. Nvidia sucks. (newest post)

[Techhog]

1. Gigabyte doesn't have the ability to run off the fan at 2D or light loads unless they changed this with a BIOS revision. For that reason MSI Gaming is preferable. Also, MSI Gaming is quieter at load to start with.

2. Gigabyte's warranty starts from the date the card has been manufactured, not from the date you purchased it. Therefore, MSI's 3-year-warranty is actually longer in the real world than Gigabyte's.

3. Check the warranty on both brands as I believe in the 2nd or 3rd year MSI's warranty changes in terms of who pays for shipping costs back to you. I think in the first year they pay for it, but later you might have to pay for return shipping or replacement parts such as fans.

4. Upgrading from an i5 4670K to Skylake for gaming is a waste of $. You are better off grabbing a solid aftermarket cooler like $40 Thermalright True Spirit 140 and overclocking that CPU to 4.5Ghz+. Think about it, the amount of $ you'd sink into Skylake might net you a 3-4% increase in gaming performance with a card of 970 level performance. It's a total waste. BFG tested 66 games and going from an i5 2500K to a 4790K netted just a 6-7% increase in gaming performance. You would be better off overclocking + buying a new $400 14nm GPU unless of course you can resell your parts for 80-90% of the cost or something.

Wow, point #2 is silly for Gigabyte. Thanks, that made the decision for me.

On the last point, there are a couple if issues. The first one is that my board is narrow, so most coolers interfere with my RAM. The second is that the computer is also used for streaming, so the extra threads of an i7 may help. I suppose it would make more sense to upgrade to a 4790K and replace my RAM with low-profile RAM, though. I'm just not sure how well I'll be able to stream newer games with only 4 threads. I'm at 4.2GHz and I think 1.180V right now, btw. I might be able to push the speed farther, but it might not handle Prime95 at that point.

 

[RussianSensation]

Wow, point #2 is silly for Gigabyte. Thanks, that made the decision for me.

On the last point, there are a couple if issues. The first one is that my board is narrow, so most coolers interfere with my RAM. The second is that the computer is also used for streaming, so the extra threads of an i7 may help. I suppose it would make more sense to upgrade to a 4790K and replace my RAM with low-profile RAM, though. I'm just not sure how well I'll be able to stream newer games with only 4 threads. I'm at 4.2GHz and I think 1.180V right now, btw. I might be able to push the speed farther, but it might not handle Prime95 at that point.

There are plenty of narrow coolers. The Thermalright True Spirit 140 is actually a narrow cooler and you can raise the fan enough that it would clear your DDR3. On the streaming part, NV's Shadow Play on a 970 would negate the point of an i7. The GPU does all the work for you with minimal performance hit, if at all. That's the whole point of NV Shadow Play is you use the GPU's horsepower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LVwiNT1pNM

One other difference is the MSI Gaming 970 uses Military Class 4 components that are superior to NV's reference ones. Gigabyte doesn't. Scroll down to the bottom of the page:
http://us.msi.com/product/vga/GTX-970-GAMING-4G.html#hero-overview

BTW, another advantages of the MSI card is the XSplit Gamecaster & Broadcaster V2 software that lets you easily record your gaming moments and broadcast your live gameplay sessions to Twitch, YouTube, UStream, etc. If you go to that website (link above), it tells you how to activate your license for this software.

Asus also has a license for XSplit Gamecaster. I haven't checked if Gigabyte does.

 

[Techhog]

There are plenty of narrow coolers. The Thermalright True Spirit 140 is actually a narrow cooler and you can raise the fan enough that it would clear your DDR3. On the streaming part, NV's Shadow Play on a 970 would negate the point of an i7. The GPU does all the work for you with minimal performance hit, if at all. That's the whole point of NV Shadow Play is you use the GPU's horsepower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LVwiNT1pNM

One other difference is the MSI Gaming 970 uses Military Class 4 components that are superior to NV's reference ones. Gigabyte doesn't. Scroll down to the bottom of the page:
http://us.msi.com/product/vga/GTX-970-GAMING-4G.html#hero-overview

BTW, another advantages of the MSI card is the XSplit Gamecaster & Broadcaster V2 software that lets you easily record your gaming moments and broadcast your live gameplay sessions to Twitch, YouTube, UStream, etc. If you go to that website (link above), it tells you how to activate your license for this software.

Asus also has a license for XSplit Gamecaster. I haven't checked if Gigabyte does.

I actually forgot about Shadowplay. Good point, though I'm wondering about the quality hit. I guess I'll just test it.

Yeah, those are more good points. I'm pretty confident in my decision at this point.

 

[kasakka]

Hm. I'm also concerned about the WF X3 sagging without a backplate, and the fact that I broke my slot's clip. I know that any card can easily fit in my case, though.

They do sag slightly, but my ASUS GTX 770s were far worse. The cooler is pretty rigid so they don't bend much.

That warranty thing sounds pretty shitty if true as the customer does not know if they are getting a "fresh" card when buying one. I don't have to deal with it thanks to EU and 2 year warranty from purchase date.

 

[Techhog]

I ordered the MSI with 3 days shipping. I can't wait to try DSR with some older games! Thanks for all of your help!

 

[RussianSensation]

I ordered the MSI with 3 days shipping. I can't wait to try DSR with some older games! Thanks for all of your help!

Congrats! Don't send in the rebate right away because if the card has issues, Newegg will not take it back. Test out the card for 15-20 days and then you can send in the rebate assuming the rebate gives you the option to wait 30 days for post-marketing from date of purchase to send it in.

Let us know how you like the card in terms of load temps and noise levels and the overall performance increase.

 

[96Firebird]

Also, keep in mind you have to send in MSI rebates within 15 days of purchase. I never liked that little stipulation with their rebates.

 

[Techhog]

Congrats! Don't send in the rebate right away because if the card has issues, Newegg will not take it back. Test out the card for 15-20 days and then you can send in the rebate assuming the rebate gives you the option to wait 30 days for post-marketing from date of purchase to send it in.

Let us know how you like the card in terms of load temps and noise levels and the overall performance increase.

Yeah, I'm aware. That's not a mistake I plan to make... again. That's actually a pretty big advantage to buying now, while I'm on break and can spend extra time testing a variety of games.

Also, keep in mind you have to send in MSI rebates within 15 days of purchase. I never liked that little stipulation with their rebates.

Wow, that's dumb. :/

 

[Techhog]

So, I got the card.

Valley:
Stock PCS+ 7950: 1500-1600
7950 best overclock: 1770
Stock 970 Gaming: 2440
970 @1554: 2617

I said wow. I'm confused about something, though. Valley was reporting the boost clock as 1455MHz, while MSI Afterburner and GPU-Z say that it was 1316MHz. I'm guessing Valley was inaccurate, but I wonder why?

EDIT: I need to try a few games, but it looks like 1577MHz may be my limit. Holy crap.

EDIT2: Nevermind. It crashed when I tried to change settings in Tomb Raider. I still managed 1554MHz, though. If that continues to work, I'm more than happy. I had bad luck with my 7950, but this... 216MHz over stock... I'm glad I didn't waste money on a G1 now lol

 

[96Firebird]

Valley isn't the best benchmark for Maxwell cards, not really sure why though... They seem to score low in that benchmark, and the misreported clockspeed is a known issue that I guess hasn't been fixed yet. It is talked about a bit in this Valley thread.

Anyways, that is quite the overclock you have there. Have you touched the memory clocks yet? I overclocked my first 970, but I'm keeping my FTW stock for now. I don't really have a need for for speed in the games I play right now, but the headroom should be good for future games that may need it.

 

[Techhog]

Valley isn't the best benchmark for Maxwell cards, not really sure why though... They seem to score low in that benchmark, and the misreported clockspeed is a known issue that I guess hasn't been fixed yet. It is talked about a bit in this Valley thread.

Anyways, that is quite the overclock you have there. Have you touched the memory clocks yet? I overclocked my first 970, but I'm keeping my FTW stock for now. I don't really have a need for for speed in the games I play right now, but the headroom should be good for future games that may need it.

I just did the memory. That I was able to add a ~250MHz offset to before I noticed that it wasn't changing my scores. I suspect power throttling. I'm leaving it at +196MHz.I don't really need the power either, but I want to push DSR.

Also, this thing idles at 35C with the fans off, and only hits 69C at the max overclock and 57% fan speed. That is something.

 

[RussianSensation]

Also, this thing idles at 35C with the fans off, and only hits 69C at the max overclock and 57% fan speed. That is something.

:thumbsup: Glad you like the card. I did a lot of research on the MSI Gaming 970 and based on user reviews, a lot of gamers were satisfied with how well it overclocks and yet maintains a great balance of quiet noise levels.

 

[ocre]

Like I said techhog, AMD will have to beat the price vs performance out today but a 1550mhz 970 for the price you paid..............its gonna be really hard to beat.

If you catch wind things are gonna drastically change, you can put your card up for sale and you will be able to get much of that cash back.

My personal thinking is that AMD will have a card that beats the 980 by 10-20% and the 980 might drop down to $450. But none of that will happen over night. We will catch wind before the official launch date. This is supposed to be happening months down the line. I dont think the 300$ price bracket will change much once the 390x launches. I would be surprised if the 970 drops 50$. Eventually, this is gonna happen. But take a look at the 970 MSI gaming benchmarks. It is pretty darn close to a stock 980 performance. At 1550mhz, it is a beast.
That is a lot of power for the money.

I know when i got the 980, i wasnt impressed at first. I really couldnt tell any difference between the 980 at stock and my 970 at 1515mhz. I talked about it before, i was playing games at the same settings.
So now i am overclocking the 980 to 1500mhz. That is one thing about the gm204 that i cant get over. Once you find your overclock, i just set it and forget it. The fan and everything is left on auto. The gm204 overclocks like nothing i have ever had before. Set your slider and you are running at 1500mhz boost all day long, dont even touch the fans.

 

[Techhog]

Like I said techhog, AMD will have to beat the price vs performance out today but a 1550mhz 970 for the price you paid..............its gonna be really hard to beat.

If you catch wind things are gonna drastically change, you can put your card up for sale and you will be able to get much of that cash back.

My personal thinking is that AMD will have a card that beats the 980 by 10-20% and the 980 might drop down to $450. But none of that will happen over night. We will catch wind before the official launch date. This is supposed to be happening months down the line. I dont think the 300$ price bracket will change much once the 390x launches. I would be surprised if the 970 drops 50$. Eventually, this is gonna happen. But take a look at the 970 MSI gaming benchmarks. It is pretty darn close to a stock 980 performance. At 1550mhz, it is a beast.
That is a lot of power for the money.

I know when i got the 980, i wasnt impressed at first. I really couldnt tell any difference between the 980 at stock and my 970 at 1515mhz. I talked about it before, i was playing games at the same settings.
So now i am overclocking the 980 to 1500mhz. That is one thing about the gm204 that i cant get over. Once you find your overclock, i just set it and forget it. The fan and everything is left on auto. The gm204 overclocks like nothing i have ever had before. Set your slider and you are running at 1500mhz boost all day long, dont even touch the fans.

Yeah. The fact that my chip overclocked that well justifies the price on its own imo. I don't know if I would have been this lucky if I had waited. I do hope AMD can drive prices down, though. I don't see myself selling this for some time, but I still want to see healthy competition in the market.

EDIT: 30C idle. I don't understand why Gigabyte chose to keep the fans on all of the time at all.

 

[Techhog]

I just can't see a point in overclocking the VRAM. It does so little that it's crazy.

 

[Techhog]

I probably already know the unfortunate answer to this, but this OC is acting pretty strangely. In some games, the first time I try to change settings, the game crashes, but if I reopen the game that never happens again and the game just plays normally. (I noticed stuttering in a couple of games and in one specific scene in 3DMark Ultra for about half a second; however, both of the games had streaming textures and only stuttered as something was loading sometimes.) Arkham City crashed the driver once while I was testing something at lowest settings (don't ask), do I cut 8MHz off the clock and I can't replicate the crash. I tried testing in Furmark, but it hits the power limit without reaching max clocks and is therefore useless. I'm not really sure what to do here. Is there any reliable way to test stability? I dialed it down to 1540MHz, but it really seems like there's just a huge amount of variance between games. I also have yet to see a single artifact at any speed.

 

[Mezzanine]

Basically, is the extra binning on the G1 really worth it?

Is the G1 even binned? My G1 970 was a potato and could barely reach 1450mhz

 

[flexy]

Memory is rated at a max. 8Ghz so chances are that MOST people can actually easy set anything from +400 - +480 in Afterburner. I myself use +460.

It definitely does help SOME since I see FPS increase as compared to 0 on memory. (Of course it depends how mem bandwidth hungry a game/bench is. If a game doesn't use a lot of memory b/w you wont see big increases by overclocking memory of course).

Do not set mem TOO high (eg, 490 and higher), because it does internal CRC correction - means if there ARE errors you won't necessarily see them but you lose performance due to the CRC correction. I personally recommend 450-460 on the memory. Some people set 520+ etc. but I guess a lot of those people might have errors they're not aware of.

As one VERY DEMANDING stress test you can use Heaven Benchmark on Ultra/Tessellation Extreme...but be warned, a lot of overclocks might work in games but Heaven might crash out. It constantly shatters my overclocking dreams

 

[flexy]

>>
Furmark, but it hits the power limit without reaching max clocks and is therefore useless. I'm not really sure what to do here. Is there any reliable way to test stability?
>>

It's *relatively* useless because they (along with EVGA OC Scanner etc.) hit the power limit, correct, but it has SOME use because you see whether the card is stable at a LOWER clock. (Because it boosted down) Right now I am using EVGA OC Scanner, Furry Donut V2, it's actually pretty good for testing stability along with Heaven Benchmark.

Artifacts I don't see either, what I get when I go crazy is either black screen and reboot or black screen and driver craps out but recovers again.

 

[ocre]

Techhog,

I noticed your voltage jacked all the way up. That didnt work on my 970. I was able to get 1525mhz without touching the volts.

the gm204 is strange like that. voltage can hurt overclocks

 

[Techhog]

Memory is rated at a max. 8Ghz so chances are that MOST people can actually easy set anything from +400 - +480 in Afterburner. I myself use +460.

It definitely does help SOME since I see FPS increase as compared to 0 on memory. (Of course it depends how mem bandwidth hungry a game/bench is. If a game doesn't use a lot of memory b/w you wont see big increases by overclocking memory of course).

Do not set mem TOO high (eg, 490 and higher), because it does internal CRC correction - means if there ARE errors you won't necessarily see them but you lose performance due to the CRC correction. I personally recommend 450-460 on the memory. Some people set 520+ etc. but I guess a lot of those people might have errors they're not aware of.

As one VERY DEMANDING stress test you can use Heaven Benchmark on Ultra/Tessellation Extreme...but be warned, a lot of overclocks might work in games but Heaven might crash out. It constantly shatters my overclocking dreams

Okay, I'll try Heaven again.

Techhog,

I noticed your voltage jacked all the way up. That didnt work on my 970. I was able to get 1525mhz without touching the volts.

the gm204 is strange like that. voltage can hurt overclocks

I definitely need some added voltage to get over 1500MHz, though I'm not sure how much. Testing time I guess.

 

[Techhog]

>>
Furmark, but it hits the power limit without reaching max clocks and is therefore useless. I'm not really sure what to do here. Is there any reliable way to test stability?
>>

It's *relatively* useless because they (along with EVGA OC Scanner etc.) hit the power limit, correct, but it has SOME use because you see whether the card is stable at a LOWER clock. (Because it boosted down) Right now I am using EVGA OC Scanner, Furry Donut V2, it's actually pretty good for testing stability along with Heaven Benchmark.

Artifacts I don't see either, what I get when I go crazy is either black screen and reboot or black screen and driver craps out but recovers again.

So, it lasted an hour and a half in Heaven at 1080p without crashing. I did notice that there was a small stutter in one of the scenes, always in the same spot. During that stutter, the frame rate is rising rapidly, falls to ~25 FPS for a couple of milliseconds, then goes back to normal. It's really weird. Something similar happens during a specific (and I mean really specific) part of Fire Strike Ultra.

EDIT: The "stutter" in Heaven wasn't actually a stutter. My mistake. In Fire Strike Ultra, there actually is a stutter, but I think it's from variance in framerate. (As in, for a split second, the framerate switches from ~30FPS to the single digits.)

 

[Techhog]

... So, protip. Don't bother using Batman: Arkham Origins to determined if an overclock is stable unless the driver fully crashes or you get artifacts. Most other problems are likely to be a result of the fact that Arkham Origins itself is an unstable game.

 

[showb1z]

I used the Tomb Raider benchmark to test my 970 OC. Very noticeable artifacts when unstable.

 

[XiandreX]

They do sag slightly, but my ASUS GTX 770s were far worse. The cooler is pretty rigid so they don't bend much.

That warranty thing sounds pretty shitty if true as the customer does not know if they are getting a "fresh" card when buying one. I don't have to deal with it thanks to EU and 2 year warranty from purchase date.

South Africa suppliers give 3 years from date of purchase for Gigabyte 970's.
Not sure why some locations use manufacturing date for warranty.